deejay Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Get real, how would tighter laws stop it? he could have easily used a knife, hammer Had he of used another weapon then it wouldn't be such a big debate on here and you wouldnt be making such a fuss about it, and maybe would be showing a bit more respect for the poor families that will be devasted by this tragic news . I would hate to think one of my family members being shot and all people can talk about is the gun laws and showing very little respect for the victims. I enjoy my hobby with a passion but if I had the choice to hand in my sgc and fac to save even one life then I wouldn't hesitate. Daz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishman-in-wales Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Had he of used another weapon then it wouldn't be such a big debate on here and you wouldnt be making such a fuss about it, and maybe would be showing a bit more respect for the poor families that will be devasted by this tragic news .I would hate to think one of my family members being shot and all people can talk about is the gun laws and showing very little respect for the victims. I enjoy my hobby with a passion but if I had the choice to hand in my sgc and fac to save even one life then I wouldn't hesitate.Daz Spot on fella.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejay Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 We don't need tighter laws...we just need the Police to apply them consistently. BASC do a great job...which is more than can be said for the NRA. Possibly a tighter and a more vigorous candidate check would be more suitable than tighter gun laws . I could undersand that working , but there will always be the odd nutcase as stated earlier , flick of the switch . Just think tighter laws would weed out the really bad apples and the ones that are capeable of doing this kind of thing. Daz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Had he of used another weapon then it wouldn't be such a big debate on here and you wouldnt be making such a fuss about it, and maybe would be showing a bit more respect for the poor families that will be devasted by this tragic news . I would hate to think one of my family members being shot and all people can talk about is the gun laws and showing very little respect for the victims. I enjoy my hobby with a passion but if I had the choice to hand in my sgc and fac to save even one life then I wouldn't hesitate. Daz You have not answered the question? How will giving up our licenses reduce crime? If someone has it in their mind that they want to kill then no legislation is going to stop it. All we can do is look for the signs, and from news reports there was signs that he was unfit for a license which lays the blame solely with the policing. It goes without saying that our thoughts go out to the victims families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat g Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I totally agree with you and stevielee24 and the fact that tighter gun laws will not stop this kind of thing happening due to the guns on the black market and such , but if tighter laws could of prevented this incedent from happening I am all for them . Regards Daz As we are all aware though,any further legislation would not and never will prevent the awful events in Horden. The current firearms laws are more than capable of seizing legally held firearms and revoking the appropriate certificates from any individual who demonstrates any unbalanced behavior at any time. ATB, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I dont think background checks could get any tighter? What else could they check? Its a case of someone loosing the plot and no checks in the world will ever predict that. it seems to be a case of police error due to how iggledy piggledy the firearms act is. Needs scraping and a new one put in place that is crystal clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I dont think background checks could get any tighter? What else could they check? Its a case of someone loosing the plot and no checks in the world will ever predict that. it seems to be a case of police error due to how iggledy piggledy the firearms act is. Needs scraping and a new one put in place that is crystal clear. I agree the original 1920 act is pretty darn clear and i think we should go back to it TBH it worked for 48 years http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1920/43/pdfs/ukpga_19200043_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejay Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 You have not answered the question? How will giving up our licenses reduce crime? If someone has it in their mind that they want to kill then no legislation is going to stop it. All we can do is look for the signs, and from news reports there was signs that he was unfit for a license which lays the blame solely with the policing. It goes without saying that our thoughts go out to the victims families. What was the question ?, I didnt say that handing in our licenses would prevent this I stated that . "If by handing mine in would save even the one life , I would be very willing to do so". Daz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelee24 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelee24 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 the only thing that will prevent murder no matter what the weapon is a future like the film Minority Report until then there will never be a prevention. this as most things is a perfect excuse to take away more of the common mans freedom. Does anyone truly believe the government care about our security or well-being? lets ban all sharp objects, hammers, power tools, heavy objects, or more importantly cars that kill on a daily basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shot shot Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 channel 4 news, dear god they're biased. "Why would someone need 6 guns when living in a residential area" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Right think we need to step back a bit here guys now we have vented our anger Now lets just step back. Black ops do this a lot a have a 99.9% successes rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 As we are all aware though,any further legislation would not and never will prevent the awful events in Horden. The current firearms laws are more than capable of seizing legally held firearms and revoking the appropriate certificates from any individual who demonstrates any unbalanced behavior at any time. ATB, Pat Ah but in this case they did remove his guns, then gave him them back as the Chief constable said they did not have the grounds to keep them off him AT THAT TIME, so go on on what do you do? you would and quite rightly so moan like hell if they removed guns and tickets at a whim, or on the word of say someone with a grudge big enough to make an unsubstantuated claim against you, there has to be a balance, but where that point is I don't know, and I don't believe anyone else knows unless Nostradamus really could predict the future. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) channel 4 news, dear god they're biased. "Why would someone need 6 guns when living in a residential area" Well perhaps someone should explain to them! Ah but in this case they did remove his guns, then gave him them back as the Chief constable said they did not have the grounds to keep them off him AT THAT TIME, so go on on what do you do? Do we have a reference for them police removing then releasing this chaps firearms/licence? the only thing that will prevent murder no matter what the weapon is a future like the film Minority Report until then there will never be a prevention. this as most things is a perfect excuse to take away more of the common mans freedom. Does anyone truly believe the government care about our security or well-being? lets ban all sharp objects, hammers, power tools, heavy objects, or more importantly cars that kill on a daily basis It's a very simple solution, ban people - it's people who kill people has to be the logical solution? Some feminists may say just ban males Edited January 3, 2012 by HDAV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 lets ban all sharp objects, hammers, power tools, heavy objects, or more importantly cars that kill on a daily basis That's a ridiculous analogy. I've heard it spouted on so many news reports today and it simply doesn't make sense. Luckily, in this case the government have seen sense and have said there will be no change to firearms legislation. However, if the best argument we can come up with is knives/cars/hammers etc. can kill too then we're in serious trouble when the **** really does hit the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semiautolee Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 latest release on the matter!! It has also emerged Michael Atherton had his legally-owned guns returned to him after police removed them in 2008. The 42-year-old was found dead at the house in Horden, near Peterlee, County Durham, on Sunday. His partner, Susan McGoldrick, 47, her sister Alison Turnbull, 44, and niece Tanya Turnbull, 24, were also shot. Their bodies were found in different rooms in the semi-detached property in Greenside Avenue. A post-mortem examination has revealed they died from shotgun injuries. 'Out drinking' Police confirmed the weapon used was a shotgun that was legally registered to Mr Atherton as part of his shotgun certificate. A Durham Police spokesman said that in the hours leading up to the shootings, Mr Atherton had been out drinking locally. His partner was out drinking separately with a group of friends, which included her sister and niece. Det Supt Paul Goundry said: "We believe Mr Atherton and Susan returned to their home separately and shortly afterwards an argument took place. "Mr Atherton produced a shotgun and in a matter of moments shot dead Susan, Tanya and Alison before turning the gun on himself." Three other people managed to escape, including a 19-year-old woman - named locally as Laura McGoldrick - who escaped from an upstairs window and suffered minor injuries. Mr Atherton was licensed to own six weapons, three of them shotguns and a further three "section-one" firearms. Police confirmed the force took away his guns following an incident in 2008, but they were later returned. A spokesman said that decision was in line with national procedure. "It was one person's word against another," he said. "If there was no grounds for applying for the revocation of a firearms licence the guns would be returned to the firearms licence holder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Right think we need to step back a bit here guys now we have vented our anger Now lets just step back. Black ops do this a lot a have a 99.9% successes rate. Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Used to be member of local shoot. 1 member had his guns removed by the police. The shoot captain wouldnt tell me why so i left taking my son (beater) with me as this guy was still shooting by lending another members spare gun?? So even if police remove guns it doesn't in this case stop the person using or comming into contact with guns.I mean this guy could of been suffering from depression (i wasn't going to hang around waiting for the day he snaps).The police should of notificed the shoot captain that he had his guns removed.But saying that the team captain knew, so my view is that he should have the interests & saftey of others at heart & barr the lad form shooting. I think that to protect our sport, if we know someone who is comming into contact with guns(that has had his guns removed)even if a friend we have a resposablity to notify the police.I walked away on this occasion but feel guilty now in the light of the Horden incident ( which is only 4mls from my village) as i should of also told the police. Edited January 3, 2012 by Davyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Its simply lets wait and see what pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Police confirmed the force took away his guns following an incident in 2008, but they were later returned. A spokesman said that decision was in line with national procedure. "It was one person's word against another," he said. "If there was no grounds for applying for the revocation of a firearms licence the guns would be returned to the firearms licence holder." So there we are. People seem so quick to jump to conclusions that the guy shouldn't have had his guns back in 2008, and that he was depressed/suicidal/off the rails. It's a shame MC isn't on here anymore. He could tell a very interesting story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think its a fine line the police do tread when removing guns full stop...I know a person who is still waiting to get his shotguns back after his ex wife told the police he threaten to shoot her...but I think they are caught between the fire and frying pan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 hmm daily snail seems to jumping all over the place with the Local MP.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Right think we need to step back a bit here guys now we have vented our anger Now lets just step back. Black ops do this a lot a have a 99.9% successes rate. Eh? Its simply lets wait and see what pans out. I think what masterzone2 is trying to suggest is that the shootings were a planned 'black ops' operation? I am, therefore, about to amend my post in the 'do you know anyone who shouldn't have a licence' thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Graffius Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 In assessing why the murderer had legal firearms it is important to remember that in July 2010 a Judge described Durham Police's firearms licensing procedures as "lax and chaotic". At the same time two FEO's were dismissed and then convicted of financial corruption. These facts are in the public domain. Durham police have yet to tell us if either of these Officers were involved in the grant/renewal of the murderer's certificate - or the decision to return his guns after they were removed. There is more which is not yet public but BASC has been talking to the government and will ensure that the issue of licensing procedure is fully taken into account. Christopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just put on the BBC News site "Horden shooting: Michael Atherton got gun from car" "Mr Atherton then went outside to get his shotgun, which is thought to have been stored in his car because he planned to go on a rabbit-shooting trip the following day" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16426094 ***? Who leave a shotgun (and presumably cartridges) in a car ready for going out the next day? that's at least one reason he shouldn't have had a license :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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