al4x Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'm with Charlie something isn't quite right with this, its one thing to shoot a dog worrying livestock but this was chasing chickens allegedly and how hard is it to catch an 8 month old dog. To me he sounds a bit trigger happy and though legal he will wish he hadn't done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 i dont belive a land owner should have to wait for damage or death to occur first before shooting! Its a simple failing on the dog owners behalf ! The gun owners sight is fine and his gun is legally held ! so the antis and upset fellow posters on that site need to wind there necks in and learn from this hard lesson ! You can't just shoot a dog for trespassing and by doing so you would leave yourself wide open to a claim for damages. Even shooting a dog caught in the process of worrying stock leaves the shooter in the position of having to defend his actions in court should the dogs owner decide to pursue it in court. I cant believe so many, who presumably have have been vetted for gun ownership and therefore sanity, are so keen to shoot someones puppy because it chased a ruddy hen. I rather think that sometimes it's gun owners who need to wind their neck in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) no proper farmer lets poultry run free if nothing else the fox gets them. This guy is on the edge of Stevenage so will have lots of walkers about, and shoots a puppy chasing hens that hasn't killed one. Didn't try and catch it just shot it I'd hope most on here wouldn't do the same, Had it mauled a few sheep I'd think very differently but it sounds like it was playing. Yes no one on here has ever had a dog run off everyones recall is perfect but most know it can happen and they would be pretty ****** in this situation, actually I know two people on here whose dogs have helped chickens expire it can happen doesn't make the dog a killer or prone to it just things can happen when you least expect it. Edited February 24, 2012 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Found this and feel that this says it all. Animals and the Law: straying; dog worrying; and rabbit damage.There is a wealth of legislation regarding animals, livestock and game. In this article we focus on three situations where you may find yourself taking the law into your own hands: dog worrying; straying; and rabbit damage. Dog Worrying What can you, as a livestock owner, legally do to protect your livestock if it is under immediate threat from dog worrying? Worrying livestock is defined as: 1.attacking livestock; or 2.causing it injury or suffering or, in the case of females, abortion or loss of, or injury to, their offspring through being chased; or 3.not being on a lead or under close control, in a sheep field or enclosure. You can shoot any dog worrying livestock if: 1.the dog is worrying (see the definition above) or is about to worry the livestock and there are no other reasonable means of ending or preventing the worrying; or 2.the dog has been worrying livestock, has not left the vicinity, and is not under the control of any person and there are no practical means of ascertaining to whom it belongs. However you must be able to prove that shooting the dog was necessary to protect your livestock and that you reported the incident to the police within 48 hours. Protecting game is rather different. To avoid criminal liability, you have to prove that the shooting of a dog that was worrying game, was taken to protect your own property or your interest in that property. To do this, you need to demonstrate that you honestly believed that, at the time, the game was in immediate need of protection and that, under the circumstances, you used reasonable means. In addition, to avoid civil liability, you will need to prove that the dog was either actually in the process of attacking the animals or, without the intervention, would renew its attack so that the animals would be left in a real and imminent danger. Bearing in mind that shooting dogs should always be the last resort, however if your livestock is being worried, you can take action. However, you need to exercise more caution where game is concerned, as all relevant circumstances will be taken into account to establish if there was an imminent threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I am with Charlie T totally on this one. If it was my dog I would be volcanic...sure sheep/lambs etc any dog owner would be daft to not have a lead/total control of their dog,but a chicken by a footpath in Stevenage??This particular 'farmer' is plain bonkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 You can't just shoot a dog for trespassing and by doing so you would leave yourself wide open to a claim for damages. Even shooting a dog caught in the process of worrying stock leaves the shooter in the position of having to defend his actions in court should the dogs owner decide to pursue it in court. I cant believe so many, who presumably have have been vetted for gun ownership and therefore sanity, are so keen to shoot someones puppy because it chased a ruddy hen. I rather think that sometimes it's gun owners who need to wind their neck in. i'm in total agreement andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 As a sheep farmer who once kept many thousands of free range chickens I feel I can comment. Shooting someones pet should be the very last resort. In my view it is plain stupid and irresponsible to shoot a pet dog for killing a couple of hens let alone chasing one. As a farmer and a member of the local community one has to live and get on with people and I can assure you it's not worth falling out with everyone for the sake of a hen. Dogs worrying livestock is a civil matter and if I was the dogs owner I would be taking action for damages in the court against this daft twerp of a hobby farmer who, in my opinion, was just trying to make a point against all dog walkers. I should add that no commercial poultry farmer would keep his flock on unfenced land. The voice of sanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 no proper farmer lets poultry run free if nothing else the fox gets them. This guy is on the edge of Stevenage so will have lots of walkers about, and shoots a puppy chasing hens that hasn't killed one. Didn't try and catch it just shot it I'd hope most on here wouldn't do the same, Had it mauled a few sheep I'd think very differently but it sounds like it was playing. Yes no one on here has ever had a dog run off everyones recall is perfect but most know it can happen and they would be pretty ****** in this situation, actually I know two people on here whose dogs have helped chickens expire it can happen doesn't make the dog a killer or prone to it just things can happen when you least expect it. Meet another, it happens you appologise and pay up. Not many pet dog owners steady thier dogs to feather and many good hard hunting dogs will peg what they can now and again. My GWP was always bringing me birds (i just let them go again, only ever harmed one ) but i once had a lurcher that nailed a Peacock right in the front of my hosts kitchen- tried a rugby tackle on her and missed. now i have never ensured a gundog was steady to Peacocks and i bet not many have we just rely on the stop wistle etc. This particular bitch could be trusted among any normal stock and hens so one never knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes, lets lynch the farmer on the strength of a newspaper article, every word of which must be Gospel truth of course, seems like the blind leading the blind here! Anyone considered, just for a minute, this may not be the entire story, and this may well have happened many times before, the farmer may have lost many hens to stray dogs that ran off and the owners never compensated him. Where is the civil action, where is the police investigation? Now he has hit the headlines, the upset dog owners have put very useful warning signs up everywhere, and I suspect most people in the area know all about this story and will keep there dogs under control when around this farm! Bit of a result for the farmer I'd say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodlepigeon Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes we might not have the full story and it might have killed many hens before but nothing suggests this and like Alex says if a dog can get in so can a Fox and it sounds like he took it out on the Dog. If my puppy slipped its lead and was playing with Chickens and got shot I would be really upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Get the 'farmer' boy in front of the magistrate and see how his justifictaion stands up in a court of law. The stock worrying defence is exactly that, a defence, and should be tested in the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) This being a shooting forum, naturally the tendency is to assume that the shooter can do no wrong. On the basis of the "facts" presented, I think it was a cruel and unnecessary act to shoot the dog, a puppy, for chasing a few hens. If these hens are free to wander, then they could easily have wandered onto the footpath, inciting the chase. Near me there is a lane where the hens are running in the road, and I am amazed not to have seen any flattened in the road. At night no doubt the hens are locked up in their coop, secure from foxes, but I am surprised he has any hens left and not taken by foxes during the day. He may well have heard a commotion and fearing a fox, gone to get his gun, from his cabinet, (in the loft?), then his ammo, then pointed his loaded gun at the puppy, obviously taking care that it was a safe shot, with no overshooting of the footpath, or walkers the other side of the hedge. He obviously then made a calculated decision to kill the puppy. Anything other than calculated means he should not be in possession of the gun. With gun in hand it is unlikely to have been a last resort attempt to save the chickens. Firing a shot into the ground would have startled a puppy, and made it gunshy for life no doubt. It was over the top and unnecessary. Just because the law says he can offer a defence of protecting livestock, it doesn't mean he should have killed the pup. As these terriers look like sheep, I wonder if he would shoot a lamb thinking it was a fox? Edited February 24, 2012 by Greymaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr salt Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 i feel sorry for the dog. its within the law to shot a dog thats attacking livestock. a dog must be under control at alltimes.(by law) Two sides to every story. was it the first time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 The farmer was in his kitchen having a nice cup of tea and minding his own business, when he suddenly hears a tremendous growling guttural animal noise followed by the cries of terror from his chickens. glancing out the window he sees a fox shaped beast running amok amongst his favourite special breed bantams. his heart turns to ice with fear for his chickens, he knows their lives depend on him. going to his gun cabinet he picks up his old trusty side by side, passed down from his father, and pockets a few carts. outside it is a scene of carnage with feathers floating through the air and the screams of chickens as the rabid monster has one in its jaws. the farmer realises he has but seconds to act. he raises the shotgun, it feels heavy in his hands and the morning sun is low blinding him. he realises indecision will be costly. bessy the chicken locks eyes with him, a single tear makes its way down her feathered face as she prepares for the next life. a single shot rings out. bessy feels the pressure release from around her neck and breathes deeply. the farmer slumps to the ground mentally drained from the ordeal, saliva drips from the savage jaws of the deceased dog, no longer able to kill at will. the sound of birdsong can be heard as tranquility returns to the farmyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 The farmer was in his kitchen having a nice cup of tea and minding his own business, when he suddenly hears a tremendous growling guttural animal noise followed by the cries of terror from his chickens. glancing out the window he sees a fox shaped beast running amok amongst his favourite special breed bantams. his heart turns to ice with fear for his chickens, he knows their lives depend on him. going to his gun cabinet he picks up his old trusty side by side, passed down from his father, and pockets a few carts. outside it is a scene of carnage with feathers floating through the air and the screams of chickens as the rabid monster has one in its jaws. the farmer realises he has but seconds to act. he raises the shotgun, it feels heavy in his hands and the morning sun is low blinding him. he realises indecision will be costly. bessy the chicken locks eyes with him, a single tear makes its way down her feathered face as she prepares for the next life. a single shot rings out. bessy feels the pressure release from around her neck and breathes deeply. the farmer slumps to the ground mentally drained from the ordeal, saliva drips from the savage jaws of the deceased dog, no longer able to kill at will. the sound of birdsong can be heard as tranquility returns to the farmyard. Ahem, take a bit more water with it :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ahem, take a bit more water with it :yp: just joining in the fiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garjo Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Agree with Greymaster - heard about this last weekend - caused a lot of debate in the area - last I heard police involved This being a shooting forum, naturally the tendency is to assume that the shooter can do no wrong. On the basis of the "facts" presented, I think it was a cruel and unnecessary act to shoot the dog, a puppy, for chasing a few hens. If these hens are free to wander, then they could easily have wandered onto the footpath, inciting the chase. Near me there is a lane where the hens are running in the road, and I am amazed not to have seen any flattened in the road. At night no doubt the hens are locked up in their coop, secure from foxes, but I am surprised he has any hens left and not taken by foxes during the day. He may well have heard a commotion and fearing a fox, gone to get his gun, from his cabinet, (in the loft?), then his ammo, then pointed his loaded gun at the puppy, obviously taking care that it was a safe shot, with no overshooting of the footpath, or walkers the other side of the hedge. He obviously then made a calculated decision to kill the puppy. Anything other than calculated means he should not be in possession of the gun. With gun in hand it is unlikely to have been a last resort attempt to save the chickens. Firing a shot into the ground would have startled a puppy, and made it gunshy for life no doubt. It was over the top and unnecessary. Just because the law says he can offer a defence of protecting livestock, it doesn't mean he should have killed the pup. As these terriers look like sheep, I wonder if he would shoot a lamb thinking it was a fox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW682 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) are chickens classed as livestock for this point? shame for the dog - but they should have kept it under control. Apologies if I have missed it, but I don't think anyone has responded to this bit (if they did then many other replies have either missed it or ignored it as well) We have had many similar threads before, and I am sure previously people have posted the relevant legislation and although there is a defence of shooting a dog to protect livestock - there is a specific definition of livestock which doesn't include chickens or any other birds? (normally comes up when discussing protecting pheasants). I think this is what you were aluding to? Edit: thanks to Rushjob (see later) livestock does include poultry Edited February 25, 2012 by HW682 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Keep calm, they're only chickens. Hardy worth sticking 30g of lead shot into some poor ******* dog because it happened to stray/run into them. If he was that worried he should have them fenced off. Dogs will be dogs - all this talk about irresponsible dog owners is ********, all of us have been in situations where ours dogs have done something they shouldn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 only chickens??? well dogs are only a tasty snack in Korea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 What is the law relating to having dogs on leads in public place? should the dog be under control. My grand daughter is scared stiff of dogs, try as I may to get her to be cool and quiet with them (I find it very annoying). How many times when we have been out walking have dogs "off the lead" come bounding up , sometimes barking, mostly being friendly, and jumped up at my screaming 6 year old grandaughter, only for the owner to say "don't worry it won't hurt anyone" how do we know that? it has not come back when called , and often when I have had to push it away with my stick or on occasion take sterner measures only to be told by the owner in no uncertain terms that I am unreasonable. I would never harm a dog or any other animal without just cause, but given a split second to decide, I know which way I would go, and what I would do. I know this does not compare with the "shooting of the dog", which happened about 1 mile from where I live, but does highlight that owner's have to take responsibility, and a lot of it. You have only to look at the two recent maulings of children to realise that things have to change and owners have to step up to the mark. If only my grand daughter would get used to dogs, it is really annoying and frustrating, but I am getting there with her. And no, I do not know the reason she is like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I have almost the same issue with my three year old daughter and dogs bounding up. only takes a second for a dog to chew a toddlers face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 just joining in the fiction. I know, and it was quite funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I own two Bedlington Terriers and yes, they can be a pain to keep under control. However, it must be done and its down to the owners to ensure the dog is under control and away from live stock. I have sympathy for the dog becuase I do love Beddlingtons, but its completely the owners fault, and if they want to blame someone, they should put up signs saying we allowed our dog to chase livestock and potentially cause damage, and it was subsequently shot. Please refrian from being as inconsiderate as us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr salt Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 well dogs are only a tasty snack in Korea. very good ,made me smile :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.