Harnser Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 There have been several new shooters on here asking for advice about buying their first gun . There seems to be a theory among some that you dont buy a gun unless it fits you . Nonsense . You buy a gun because it is in your price range ,its a make that you want to buy and it is in acceptable condition . To buy a gun new or second hand that fits you is nearly impossible . New guns are made to certain measurements that are classed as average for most people . That means that the gun will nearly fit most people but wont fit anybody . The only reason I wouldnt buy a gun that had a fit issue was if the gun was very short in the stock and needed an extension this could be expensive to put right and never looks nice when done . I have never bought a gun that I could not shoot with, with out having it fitted . Some guns I have had fitted and some I never bothered with . A proper fitting gun is better ,but is not always necessary . Its not expensive to have a stock altered to fit you ,so dont worry about gun fit when you buy your first gun . Concentrate on buying the gun you want at the price you want . The last time I took a gun to a gunsmith for altering was about 12 months ago when I had a gun that I bought that was cast left handed and had it cast to right handed , the princely sum was £50 . Dont let gun fit put you off buying the right gun . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Yes, it does get tiring when people bang on about gun fit when all somebody asks is: "What's best? X,Y or Z?" Gun fit is a given as an important part of shooting a shotgun well, but it's got very little to do with choosing one gun over another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Its ok if you know what adjustments you need to make to your gun. £50 is not bad for adjusting cast, but the price will go up if the comb needs altering, lop needs adjusting etc etc. If a new shooter can pick up a gun that, at best, nearly fits from the start, they can learn to shoot and mount the gun properly, that way they will not be put off and loose any confidence by continually missing targets and the gun booting them in the face. I agree what your point is, you can pick pretty much any gun you want, then get it fitted, but only if you have a consistent mount, and that takes time to achive. An ill fitting gun during this time could, as above, loose the shooter any confidence as they keep missing targets, and excessive felt recoil. I would suggest getting a gun the best fits first, lean to shoot and consistently mount. Then at a later date, get the gun you want and have it fitted properly. Edited April 23, 2012 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 Its ok if you know what adjustments you need to make to your gun. £50 is not bad for adjusting cast, but the price will go up if the comb needs altering, lop needs adjusting etc etc. If a new shooter can pick up a gun that, at best, nearly fits from the start, they can learn to shoot and mount the gun properly, that way they will not be put off and loose any confidence by continually missing targets and the gun booting them in the face. I agree what your point is, you can pick pretty much any gun you want, then get it fitted, but only if you have a consistent mount, and that takes time to achive. An ill fitting gun during this time could, as above, loose the shooter any confidence as they keep missing targets, and excessive felt recoil. I would suggest getting a gun the best fits first, lean to shoot and consistently mount. Then at a later date, get the gun you want and have it fitted properly. I agree with you for a beginner near enough is good enough until the get a consistent mount then they can get any gun fitted to them. A good shot can make do with any gun but anyone will shot better with a better fitted gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 i heard a rumour that "a consistent mount" was more important than fit , although it does help considerably to have the correct "handed" gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlistairB Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 There have been several new shooters on here asking for advice about buying their first gun . There seems to be a theory among some that you dont buy a gun unless it fits you . Nonsense . You buy a gun because it is in your price range ,its a make that you want to buy and it is in acceptable condition . To buy a gun new or second hand that fits you is nearly impossible . New guns are made to certain measurements that are classed as average for most people . That means that the gun will nearly fit most people but wont fit anybody . The only reason I wouldnt buy a gun that had a fit issue was if the gun was very short in the stock and needed an extension this could be expensive to put right and never looks nice when done . I have never bought a gun that I could not shoot with, with out having it fitted . Some guns I have had fitted and some I never bothered with . A proper fitting gun is better ,but is not always necessary . Its not expensive to have a stock altered to fit you ,so dont worry about gun fit when you buy your first gun . Concentrate on buying the gun you want at the price you want . The last time I took a gun to a gunsmith for altering was about 12 months ago when I had a gun that I bought that was cast left handed and had it cast to right handed , the princely sum was £50 . Dont let gun fit put you off buying the right gun . Harnser . :good: :good: :good: :good: :good: I've had mine fitted but i'm an odd shape. My old man bought his 45 years ago, never had it fitted and doesnt miss a thing, he learn't to shoot with it and now cant use mine even though he's the same shape! Well said. AB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear68 Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) I've had to have every shotgun I've owned altered to fit me; the cast, comb height and length of pull generally all need adjustment, and usually by a fair bit. It makes a big difference to my shooting, as I need 3/8" cast off, and a 15 and 3/8" pull...and there aren't many guns that come with those measurements. I normally pay well under £100 to have the work done. Most competent shooting instructors should be able to advise new shooters if there are any significant changes that would help them. A session with try-gun to get exact measurements usually costs and, as has been said, is probably only really worthwhile when yu've gained experience and have a gun that you're going to keep hold of for a while. Edited April 24, 2012 by Bear68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 There have been several new shooters on here asking for advice about buying their first gun . There seems to be a theory among some that you dont buy a gun unless it fits you . Nonsense . You buy a gun because it is in your price range ,its a make that you want to buy and it is in acceptable condition . To buy a gun new or second hand that fits you is nearly impossible . New guns are made to certain measurements that are classed as average for most people . That means that the gun will nearly fit most people but wont fit anybody . The only reason I wouldnt buy a gun that had a fit issue was if the gun was very short in the stock and needed an extension this could be expensive to put right and never looks nice when done . I have never bought a gun that I could not shoot with, with out having it fitted . Some guns I have had fitted and some I never bothered with . A proper fitting gun is better ,but is not always necessary . Its not expensive to have a stock altered to fit you ,so dont worry about gun fit when you buy your first gun . Concentrate on buying the gun you want at the price you want . The last time I took a gun to a gunsmith for altering was about 12 months ago when I had a gun that I bought that was cast left handed and had it cast to right handed , the princely sum was £50 . Dont let gun fit put you off buying the right gun . Harnser . Impeccable advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Harnser has correctly identified a knickersinatwistimism amongst folk to propel themselves on the stage to warn beginners against buying a gun that doesn't fit, as if that's why they'll miss. :lol: Edited April 24, 2012 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 its not hard thesedays to make a gun fit, the only main issue is if the stock is too large / too long. but that can be easily judged straight away. most new shooters dont know what fits. i`ve heard of one guy asking to have an extra 5-6" put on the back of the stock to increase the length of pull, so that his barrel is in the same position as his old gun ! because his new gun is 26" and the old one 32" ! crazy ! length of pull isnt calculated buy just measuring the fore-arm, its how the gun feels, mounts and shoots, but more important where it shoots. you can make any gun fit. my merkel is short stocked, adding a pad on the back, about an inch and 1/8, pulls down the poi just enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigeonEater Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) ridiculous advice, of course gn fit is important. If a gun doesnt fit right not only will you struggle to shoot it but you will experience other negativities such as increased kick. If a gun doesnt fit right you will feel the recoil more, not only in yur shoulders but cheek and arms to. Getting battered by a gun as a beginner will only knock confidence and hinder progress, even more so with female shooters. Edited April 25, 2012 by PigeonEater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Of course gun fit is important but most who are new to the sport will not know what fits and what doesn`t until they have gained experience. Buy a gun in your price range and take advice from the gun shop on what appears to fit better but it`s` only by putting enough shells through the gun that you`ll get a feel for it. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 ridiculous advice, of course gn fit is important. If a gun doesnt fit right not only will you struggle to shoot it but you will experience other negativities such as increased kick. If a gun doesnt fit right you will feel the recoil more, not only in yur shoulders but cheek and arms to. Getting battered by a gun as a beginner will only knock confidence and hinder progress, even more so with female shooters. Ridiculous advice, it ain't nekkekkarily so PigeonEater. Poor gun fit can affect performance of course but to what degree is the question. Beginners have enough to worry about to be overtly worried about meticulous fit with a gun that's really only ever going to be a stepping stone. Average guns fit most people well enough. Also regarding recoil, really really poor fit will exacerbate and focus recoil in a negative way, but even this will only ever manifest itself when firing many shots over a short period such as clay shooting. Beginners often only fire half a dozen shots in an outing. It's also wrong to assume that poor fit will always produce hurtful recoil, it does NOT. My ideal gun in terms of high scores is a trap configuration, but I can still pick up almost any sporting gun with the completely wrong pitch and comb height and not only shoot a reasonable score but suffer zero fit related recoil issue. The point is all this fit this fit that thing ain't as important as they make out, unless you're spending £2, £3 or £10k plus and need to hit every single thing out there. What really causes the most recoil with new guns and beginners is nothing more than gun weight and shell type in truth. Beginners tend to go for cheap and light entry level fodder with short barrels (worse still Side by Side) and fire 32 gram game shells after rabbits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 ridiculous advice, of course gn fit is important. If a gun doesnt fit right not only will you struggle to shoot it but you will experience other negativities such as increased kick. If a gun doesnt fit right you will feel the recoil more, not only in yur shoulders but cheek and arms to. Getting battered by a gun as a beginner will only knock confidence and hinder progress, even more so with female shooters. May just pay to read the OP again. With regard to the, "length of pull (LoP) (my parentheses) isn't calculated by just measuring the forearm", mentioned in another post; just to avoid any confusion, the length of the forearm has absolutely nothing to do with the LoP whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted April 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 ridiculous advice, of course gn fit is important. If a gun doesnt fit right not only will you struggle to shoot it but you will experience other negativities such as increased kick. If a gun doesnt fit right you will feel the recoil more, not only in yur shoulders but cheek and arms to. Getting battered by a gun as a beginner will only knock confidence and hinder progress, even more so with female shooters. Pigeon eater , you really should read my original post again and try to digest it . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peathag Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Well said that man - the shooter can adapt to the gun to an extent and until the newbie can consistantly mount the gun correctly then there would be little point in making any adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 There have been several new shooters on here asking for advice about buying their first gun . There seems to be a theory among some that you dont buy a gun unless it fits you . Nonsense . You buy a gun because it is in your price range ,its a make that you want to buy and it is in acceptable condition . To buy a gun new or second hand that fits you is nearly impossible . New guns are made to certain measurements that are classed as average for most people . That means that the gun will nearly fit most people but wont fit anybody . The only reason I wouldnt buy a gun that had a fit issue was if the gun was very short in the stock and needed an extension this could be expensive to put right and never looks nice when done . I have never bought a gun that I could not shoot with, with out having it fitted . Some guns I have had fitted and some I never bothered with . A proper fitting gun is better ,but is not always necessary . Its not expensive to have a stock altered to fit you ,so dont worry about gun fit when you buy your first gun . Concentrate on buying the gun you want at the price you want . The last time I took a gun to a gunsmith for altering was about 12 months ago when I had a gun that I bought that was cast left handed and had it cast to right handed , the princely sum was £50 . Dont let gun fit put you off buying the right gun . Harnser . Harnser, I both agree and disagree with your premise. I would agree that in general it is better to get the gun that you want or which is financially a good deal and have the cast altered to suit you. As a Left hander with slightly abnormal measurements I have had every one of my guns altered to fit me. If you have a budget of £1000 for a first gun this still holds true! If however you are talking about the beginner whose budget is limited will only stretch to say £250 and has to look at that part of the gunshops rack that is the preserve of the knacked old baikal's, rizzini's, laurona's, every gun having something that makes them undesirable ( fixed choke, skeet guns, trap guns, double triggers etc) being moved on for pocket money etc then surelty they are better off with one that fits(approximately enough for now) and works than bothering what maker/model etc. its exactly the same with secondhand cars-if you have a budget of £4000 by all means put great consideration on what model, trim level and maybee even colour you want! converseley If you only have £200 to spend you need to take the car that will hold you and everything you need to transport and make it to its next MOT, make model trim and coloiur become secondary! You will agree Im sure that peoples preference for guns is influenced by how they fit- if your gunfit requirements are closer to one manufacturers standard measurements than anothers you are likely to favour them because when you pick them out of as gunrack they "feel" better because it fits you better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted April 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Canis , I do agree that a properly fitted gun is a better gun than a gun that has not been fitted . My concern is with some of the advice given on here ,"dont buy a gun that doent fit you " . New shooters wont have a clue about gun fit and the importance that it can be . To put gun fit into the equation for novice shooters buying their first gun just make it all that more confusing . Better in my opinion that they learn about gun fit after they have bought a first gun than be confused about gun fit before they buy . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) To put gun fit into the equation for novice shooters buying their first gun just make it all that more confusing . Better in my opinion that they learn about gun fit after they have bought a first gun than be confused about gun fit before they buy . Harnser . I disagree, I would suggest they went "gun shopping" with someone who had an idea about gun fit, or at least seeked assistance from the shop owner. If a £500 Lamber fitted better than a £1200 silver pigeon 1, I would suggest they bought the Lamber and learnt to shoot and mount consistently first. Then at a later date buy the gun they want and have it fitted. Buying an ill fitting gun and just "learn to shoot it", is all good and well, but most will only achieve a moderate standard of shot. They will have to adjust their natural technique and possibly spend the next 12 months learning to shoot that gun. When they come to buy another gun and have fitted to them, they will be back to square 1 as the gun will fit and feel different. Edited April 25, 2012 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin128 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 i heard a rumour that "a consistent mount" was more important than fit , although it does help considerably to have the correct "handed" gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Make sure the advice you take 'fits you properly' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloggs Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 As a relative newbie, here's my 2 cents..... I think gun-mount is as important as gun-fitting TBF. The only problem here is that in order for a newbie to practice gun-mount they will probably have to purchase a gun in the first place so they they can practice at home. I think really good advice here is for the individual to receive sound advice from the gunsmith selling the gun or to take someone along who does actually have a clue about gun fit. I bought my first gun with the aid of Chris off this forum (Churchill),we found a gun that fitted quite well, once my cert came through I was then able to practice gun-mount at home on my own. After a while of doing this plus shooting the gun does one discover whether the gun really fits or not... :blink: After shooting for a while I tried out other guns at the shop and found that Brownings fitted me quite well indeed, so obviously I purchased one I've now moved on again gun-wise and have a gun with an adjustable comb this has now enabled me to fine tweak the gun so that it actually shoots where I point it. Still can't hit anything though TBH I don't think there is any clear cut answer as to what is the best route to go but I think that you just need to be pragmatic about it :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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