Evil Elvis Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Frenchie boy, one question no-one has really asked is......why wait until they are weaned...no criticism...just curious? once weaned they will survive on their own, pre wean and they are more likley to hand around mum if you shoot her? Whats your logic for waiting? Cant shoot the smaller ones? I undertsand if thats the case, i never have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Frenchie boy, one question no-one has really asked is......why wait until they are weaned...no criticism...just curious? once weaned they will survive on their own, pre wean and they are more likley to hand around mum if you shoot her? Whats your logic for waiting? Cant shoot the smaller ones? I undertsand if thats the case, i never have. You have asked a very valid question there EE and it is one that I can answer it quite easily. I don't have any problem shooting young animals when need be, in particular rabbits - I quite enjoy eating small young rabbits "pan fried". However that decision was made because the adults need thinning out as well as the cubs. In doing so before the cubs are weaned if a shooter was to "take the vixen out" before the cubs were weaned and not get all of the cubs then without a terrier to deal with any remaining cubs (I do not have a terrier) it could could leave any remaining cubs to starve to death below ground. This would be a long and lingering death and is something that I (And I am sure many others) would not be comfortable about. While I have no qualms about killing vermin or pests whenever the need arises I like to think I do it quickly and humanely and with the minimum of suffering. Once again, some may not agree with this line of thinking but it is one that I have always believed in and I stand firmly by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygreengrass Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 I don't wish to argue the point so I have to give the same answer to this reply as I did to Al4x' comment! Because I am going to be the one behind the trigger I need to "call the shot" that I am most comfortable with! Well said Frenchie,Nice filming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 I think thats a perfectly acceptable answer Pete, thanks for taking the time to write it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 i say vote swiss for pm ID LOVE TOO shout at them toffee noised over paid . expense fiddling crooks we call government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 pete just had a thought stick a vid of you blasting them with 243 in a week or so and give each one them a name like tricky,roxy,snuggles,and little fury you can give running comments on whos next just to show this lot your not a spring watch cameraman lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowblind66 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Brilliant vid good watching for less experienced shooters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 pete just had a thought stick a vid of you blasting them with 243 in a week or so and give each one them a name like tricky,roxy,snuggles,and little fury you can give running comments on whos next just to show this lot your not a spring watch cameraman lol You have to hit them first...... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonk Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 As always, great vid Pete. I believe you should stick to the way you manage your permissions, in the manner you are comfortable with, it obviously suits your landowners needs as well as yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 As TEH says in his previous post "You have to hit them first......" and he is quite correct, so just to conclude and close this thread I was out at 5 this morning with my .22WMR and both I and the farmer are happy with the my early morning start as just after 6:30 this morning I presented the farmer with 4 foxes tails. When I arrived at the farm I went to where I had been filming the vixen and cubs from as that offered me total cover on my approach. I spotted the vixen with a couple of cubs in the shallow gully on my side of the earth at a range of about 55-60 yards. The vixen was facing away from me but turned her head slightly so I straight away took her with a head shot which connected just under the ear. The cubs approached her body almost straight away and I got one of them (A male) while it was facing away from me and sniffing at his mother, hitting it right between the ears which all but took the top of it's head off. The other cub started to run but just as I was about to fire it tried to veer off and went into the nettles and I missed the shot! I did wait quietly in that position for quite a while in the hope that it would show but it was not going to play the game with me. From there I went down the wall behind the earth and about 30 yards past I peeked over to see two of the cubs "mooching around" anmd playing in the gully about 45 to 50 yards away. The first (A female) fell on the spot with another head shot and the other (Another female), after a short run into the open stopped and was taken with a high neck shot and also fell exactly where it was shot! All 4 carcasses were taken to the farm where the brushes were boned and given to the faermer to be hung on the back of one of the shed doors and the carcasses left for him to bury in the dung heap. Neither of us were worried about the one cub that I missed as we did not want to take out every single fox there! As for the dog fox and the 5th cub that I saw earlier neither have been seen for about a week nor so now so I am assuming that they came to grief and have been "eliminated" in some other way, so all in all a good result that everyone concerned is happy. I will however be visiting again tomorrow morning (Weather permitting) just in case there is any "mopping up" to do! As for the earth in the deep undergrowth it is almost impossible to see much movement let alone get the crosshairs on anything so it is going to have to be down to chance in the early mornings or on the lamp! I am later putting this post up than I normally would have but I have had a very long day as I was booked to go clay shooting this morning, meeting Bangbangnik at 9:00 and then Davecooper at the clay grounds at about 9:20 to 9:30, only getting back home at about 2:30 so after getting cleaned uop and locking my gun and ammunition away I had my dinner and a well earned nap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker2 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I understand what you are saying Al4x but I would prefer to wait another week or so till the vixen is taking them a little further from the earth and starting to teach them to hunt. I don't want to make the mistake of taking one or two out and ruining the chance of doing the job fully and properly. Some mey feel differently but I like to think that when I do the job it will be done thoroughly and without any "problems! When all is said and done it comes down to my prefered way of doing things and my "concience"! We all have our own way of doing things and obviously some differ from others! after reading some of the **** you print i am now convinced you need to be sectioned waiting untill they are independant ................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 after reading some of the **** you print i am now convinced you need to be sectioned waiting untill they are independant ................... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 after reading some of the **** you print i am now convinced you need to be sectioned waiting untill they are independant ................... You are quite welcome to your opinion but if you think what I print is **** then why do you bother reading it? No-one forces you to click on to any topic or thread and putting downright insulting comments like this - Any NO, I will not retaliate with an insult to your intelligence Had you taken the time to read the thread properly right from the start you would have seen that I was not waiting till they were "independent" I was just waiting till they had finished suckling. At that time they are not completely independent (Something that you ought to know if you have a "basic knowledge of foxes") they will still rely on the parent(s) to teach them to hunt and supply their food for a while yet! Maybe you should have read the post I put up at 7:11 (Just before you posted your "comment") and you would have found that there was a very satisfactory conclusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Well done Frenchie, Your allways going to get someone who does not agree with what you do, whether they know better or not is a question that nobody can answer. We are all correct in our own minds of the choices we make. Some are more diplomatic in there comments with regards to there oppinions, then some are a sledge hammer. The latter i would imagine less educated in life, but thats only my oppinion I see no problem watching and learing, finding out how many cubs are around,,,,,,, before going in with guns blazing popping off whatever you see. Not knowing if any are left,possibly without either parents, but then thinking about it does it matter ??? In my oppinion yes it does and i can see from your's also it does, But there we go again oppinions I think its all to do with giving respect, to your quarry and sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 By all means debate the topic, but there is no need to post personal insults. Keep it polite please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenntay Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 After watching your video I noticed your comment about the dog fox and 5th cub not been there, what you find is that a dog and vixen will spilt up a litter of cubs and move them . IMHO I would have dealt with this litter along time ago if I had not I would have been watching somebody else been ask to control the foxes where I shoot .you could end up losing all these foxes and then spend time catching up with them again .I know you have your opinion on how you want to deal with these foxes but what game birds and poultry could be lost while you ponder wether and when to deal with these foxes as the farmer requested you to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 As TEH says in his previous post "You have to hit them first......" and he is quite correct, so just to conclude and close this thread I was out at 5 this morning with my .22WMR and both I and the farmer are happy with the my early morning start as just after 6:30 this morning I presented the farmer with 4 foxes tails. When I arrived at the farm I went to where I had been filming the vixen and cubs from as that offered me total cover on my approach. I spotted the vixen with a couple of cubs in the shallow gully on my side of the earth at a range of about 55-60 yards. The vixen was facing away from me but turned her head slightly so I straight away took her with a head shot which connected just under the ear. The cubs approached her body almost straight away and I got one of them (A male) while it was facing away from me and sniffing at his mother, hitting it right between the ears which all but took the top of it's head off. The other cub started to run but just as I was about to fire it tried to veer off and went into the nettles and I missed the shot! I did wait quietly in that position for quite a while in the hope that it would show but it was not going to play the game with me. From there I went down the wall behind the earth and about 30 yards past I peeked over to see two of the cubs "mooching around" anmd playing in the gully about 45 to 50 yards away. The first (A female) fell on the spot with another head shot and the other (Another female), after a short run into the open stopped and was taken with a high neck shot and also fell exactly where it was shot! All 4 carcasses were taken to the farm where the brushes were boned and given to the faermer to be hung on the back of one of the shed doors and the carcasses left for him to bury in the dung heap. Neither of us were worried about the one cub that I missed as we did not want to take out every single fox there! As for the dog fox and the 5th cub that I saw earlier neither have been seen for about a week nor so now so I am assuming that they came to grief and have been "eliminated" in some other way, so all in all a good result that everyone concerned is happy. I will however be visiting again tomorrow morning (Weather permitting) just in case there is any "mopping up" to do! As for the earth in the deep undergrowth it is almost impossible to see much movement let alone get the crosshairs on anything so it is going to have to be down to chance in the early mornings or on the lamp! I am later putting this post up than I normally would have but I have had a very long day as I was booked to go clay shooting this morning, meeting Bangbangnik at 9:00 and then Davecooper at the clay grounds at about 9:20 to 9:30, only getting back home at about 2:30 so after getting cleaned uop and locking my gun and ammunition away I had my dinner and a well earned nap! Any pics ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchie the white hunter Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 PUT THIS TO BED AND JUST DEAL WITH THE VERMIN :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 In reply to Archie1234 sorry but no there are no pics, I took nothing more than the rifle and ammunition. As far as I am concerned questions have been asked and answered, opinions have been given and the job is done so there is no reason why this should not now be (as Hutchie the white hunter has put it) - Put to bed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lampingman Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Wmtching that clip makes me wish i still kept tertiers i never realy dug cubs unless a request from landowner but looks a lovely nice easy shallow earth i never had em that easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Well done Frenchie, Your allways going to get someone who does not agree with what you do, whether they know better or not is a question that nobody can answer. We are all correct in our own minds of the choices we make. Some are more diplomatic in there comments with regards to there oppinions, then some are a sledge hammer. The latter i would imagine less educated in life, but thats only my oppinion I see no problem watching and learing, finding out how many cubs are around,,,,,,, before going in with guns blazing popping off whatever you see. Not knowing if any are left,possibly without either parents, but then thinking about it does it matter ??? In my oppinion yes it does and i can see from your's also it does, But there we go again oppinions I think its all to do with giving respect, to your quarry and sport. Indeed it is whats useful is also to have an understanding of why fox control is necessary, after environmental factors such as methods of farming predation is the biggest issue for a lot of species that are in decline. Foxes being the main one affecting species like hares and partridges, whether you release or shoot them or not. Add to that other ground nesting birds and you start to see why feelings on this sort of thread run high. What is also evident is that despite the fact that a lot of people shoot them the numbers are not in decline, partly due to far fewer game keepers on the ground who in the past would have used cymag on every litter they found, then snared and shot hard all year. If you look at the GWCT information on a few of the species that are nice to have about every one has foxes as a major problem. http://www.gwct.org.uk/education__advice/document_downloads/conservation_guides/default.asp Yes some exist mostly on rabbits but not just and the amount of meat that goes into the raising of 5-6 cubs is pretty high, so while there are two sides to the argument most who look at the larger picture will shoot most foxes on sight and deal with litters as soon as they find them. One things for sure you are unlikely to know where they all are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker3 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) well done pete nice video you take the cubs and parents in your own time fella and not when others that are not there say so i just wonder how many plums on here have shot the dog and vixen and 4-5 cub and thought jod done only to fine there were more cubs i shoot foxs on sight but i have my way of doing things as do others.i have waited 4 hours at a set after getting the parents and 6 cubs onlt to shoot 2-3 more 4 hours later when most would have left the set after 6 cubs but thats my choice .i also have a set at the moment that is placed on a thick banking that gives me no shot at the set and with the crop growning by the minute i know it will be harvest time before i can shoot them in the surrounding fields again my choice . hope you mop they up when YOU are good and ready fella you and the farmer are the ones to decide when that time is not some key board warrior! there are some valid point squeeking at them for one but **** me there a some proper ***** on here as well that just like to wind folk up maybe thats all there good for talking the talk think some should just wind there necks in and if you dont like it DONT WATCH IT keep the videos comeing fella atb cocker3 Edited June 18, 2012 by cocker3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikky Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 By all means debate the topic, but there is no need to post personal insults. Keep it polite please. well said mate mikky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Although if you were doing the fox control on one of my boundaries it would be a different matter do you get the feeling fox control on neighbouring land would involve A LOT of time chasing many well educated foxes so thats at least 3 fox dens with litters, supposedly more than enough rabbits to keep said foxes fed, do you do a lot of shooting Mr Frenchie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Hey man nice video, hope you enjoyed making it as I enjoyed watching it. Personally I could not give a stuff when you shoot the fox and the cubs, and struggling to understand the drama. See no reason what so ever why you can't mix hobbies. I know a fair deal about birds, and have seen some of the rarer migrants this country has to offer, from time to time I also dabble in photography and have photographed foxes. Fair play to you fella your perm you know what is wanted from you. Crack on! I did make the mistake of leaving a den this year though, just another week I thought she moved em to an earth out my boundary I'm chasing some sizable cubs around the Spuds lol. Live and learn and had another tonight so not all bad. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.