arm our police or not

[ordnance]

Another slag the police off again thread..... how nice, really cheers me up.

For the record Trident are not armed nor are they ModPlod, i've come across many guns and have never "packed what i needed". My friend was shot and seriously injured, he was not armed either.

I've never shot anyone and have shot as a civi for years. In fact ive never had an ND either, which is reassuring but wont lead to complacity, I was also in the army which i didnt like, never did anything stupid there either, for the record i found there traing insufficent in weapon handling and less strict than the Police.

Do i want to be armed? No, why? because as soon as i shoot someone there will be a massive outcry of police brutality and trigger happy posts,let alone the inquest where hey have years to digest the information available post incident that i would have had a nano second to decide on, after all everyone knows my job better than i do.

would we go round shooting everyone and each other??? of course not, we don't go round hittineg each other with batons or spraying each other with CS do we...from the post it seems that no one really cares about the police now and they are just a bag to punch when they feel like it, remember you get the police serivce you deserve, not the one you want, we're just like you and make mistakes.

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you say. But there are things that i have to do in work that i doint want to do but they come with the job. If arming the police would help possibly stop incidents like the Cumbria shootings earlier then arming the police should be looked at weather they like it or not. Would you not of joined the police if you lived here because you didn't want to carry a gun that the police use to protect themselves ans also the public.

Edited June 17, 2012 by ordnance

[GingerCat]

Being armed or not had nothing to do with me joining the job, would be nice if there was the odd comment about the Police doing a good job for once, we're not all corrupt incompetent untrustworty etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc freemasons with large egos who cant spell our own names and were bullied as a child with inbred families and no knowledge whatsoever of any sort of firearm ever devised who cant shoot a barn door at 2 paces and only joied to pick on motorists. In fact i would estimate your job prospects as a few seconds if you were that way inclined.

Would it have helped in the recent incidents, who knows, guessing is a dangerous game.

off to bed.

 

all the best

[death from below]

No need, there's enough armed back up support and a F/A is a hindrance in most confrontational situations (rolling around on the floor with a drunk bloke who would then have an opportunity to seize a handgun).

 

More use of tazer is coming, all Boroughs in the Met now have officers trained to use tazer(until recently it was only ARV's and the TSG). Tazer is far more effective as a day to day tool than a gun.

 

For the record, I have been a cop for 22 years - I am not corrupt, inept and take a great personal and professional pride in doing my job to help the public. I have never in 22 years given out a speeding ticket or sent 9 cops to arrest a shop lifting Granny. Dixon of dock Green was a fictional character and those days did not exist, I personally would not want to go back to so called golden days when (although I have no proof of this whatsoever because it was all decades before I was born) it was common place to lock you up for 3-4 days in a cell until you put your hands up to something, where you could routinely be given a good beating because there was no regulation on what the police did and how they went about doing it.

 

Would I want to armed - no way as I don't feel arming all cops is a necessary or sensible path to go down.

[storme37]

hitting someone in a combat situation maybe a lot different and harder than hunting or target shooting imagine close range when the targets trying to kill you. lets be honest if your life was on the line would you just fire once excluding sniper shots. i dont want to see the police routinely armed now but if armed crime rises significantly in the future it may be unavoidable. one thing i will say is there's loads of armed police wondering around all day with some serious weapons at Heathrow and there's not lots of shootings.

Edited June 17, 2012 by storme37

[Big Marty]

We already have armed police over here really think its the way it should be.

[compo90]

didn't read all the replies, dont have the time today.

 

as a side fact on this issue do you all know how much it costs us every year not to have an armed police service?

 

part of the original EU or eec i cant recall draft was that europe (they wanted a united states of europe initially and some in the EU still do) would have an entirely armed police service for security and to prevent terrorism.

 

the British dont arm their police.......and they pay somewhere in the region of 60 million a year not to.....that would buy a hell of a lot of glocks and the required training and still leave change

[compo90]

No need, there's enough armed back up support and a F/A is a hindrance in most confrontational situations (rolling around on the floor with a drunk bloke who would then have an opportunity to seize a handgun).

 

More use of tazer is coming, all Boroughs in the Met now have officers trained to use tazer(until recently it was only ARV's and the TSG). Tazer is far more effective as a day to day tool than a gun.

 

For the record, I have been a cop for 22 years - I am not corrupt, inept and take a great personal and professional pride in doing my job to help the public. I have never in 22 years given out a speeding ticket or sent 9 cops to arrest a shop lifting Granny. Dixon of dock Green was a fictional character and those days did not exist, I personally would not want to go back to so called golden days when (although I have no proof of this whatsoever because it was all decades before I was born) it was common place to lock you up for 3-4 days in a cell until you put your hands up to something, where you could routinely be given a good beating because there was no regulation on what the police did and how they went about doing it.

 

Would I want to armed - no way as I don't feel arming all cops is a necessary or sensible path to go down.

 

which bocu's in london have taser trained officers? the sergeants on TSG carriers are trained and so are teh ARV's (usually two arv's cover the entire of london on a saturday night-thats 6 armed coppers for all of london, by the time they arrive the bad guys have left or been dealt with)

 

I actually feel we all should be armed.....those incapable of carrying a gun should be sacked , been shot at 3 times in 12years on my BOCU

[poontang]

 

 

I actually feel we all should be armed.....those incapable of carrying a gun should be sacked

 

Really?

 

I don't suppose anyone's 'incapable' of carrying a gun, but whether they're capable of using that gun to take somebody's life is another matter entirely.

 

If you want to carry a gun there's nothing to stop you applying for firearms duties.

[ordnance]

No need, there's enough armed back up support and a F/A is a hindrance in most confrontational situations (rolling around on the floor with a drunk bloke who would then have an opportunity to seize a handgun).

 

More use of tazer is coming, all Boroughs in the Met now have officers trained to use tazer(until recently it was only ARV's and the TSG). Tazer is far more effective as a day to day tool than a gun.

 

For the record, I have been a cop for 22 years - I am not corrupt, inept and take a great personal and professional pride in doing my job to help the public. I have never in 22 years given out a speeding ticket or sent 9 cops to arrest a shop lifting Granny. Dixon of dock Green was a fictional character and those days did not exist, I personally would not want to go back to so called golden days when (although I have no proof of this whatsoever because it was all decades before I was born) it was common place to lock you up for 3-4 days in a cell until you put your hands up to something, where you could routinely be given a good beating because there was no regulation on what the police did and how they went about doing it.

 

Would I want to armed - no way as I don't feel arming all cops is a necessary or sensible path to go down.

 

A tazer is useful in most circumstances but no good if someone is coming at you or a member of the public with a shotgun. And all you can do is get onto the radio for armed response as happened in the case of Derric Bird. As for rolling around with drunks they roll around with drunk blokes here and seem to manage to hold unto their firearms.

I can understand why some officers would not want to be armed but if its necessary then to bad. It might not be necessary in the rest of the UK at this time. But if it is in the future then serving officers that don't want to carry a firearm should leave. And if someone wants to join but does not want to carry a firearm then don't join. If you wanted to join the police here you have to except that carrying a firearm is part of the job if you don't then you won't be able to join simple.

Edited June 17, 2012 by ordnance

[Mungler]

I think that as far as arming the police, any policeman who actually wants to have a gun probably shouldn't be allowed to have one.

 

Here endeth that thought for the day...

[Chr15j]

No. Simple reason is that itwill up the ante

Crims will tool up as they know they will need it if they encounter plod, whereas now they feel secure with knives and bats.

Whilst still dangerous, nowhere near so much as guns.

Also does anyone know how many armed cops are killed with own weapons? Way too many around the world.

Arming our general plod is a slippery slope to going the way of USA!

A few more armed response would prob do the job, but can you imagine one of our rather frail looking wpc's wondering around with a handgun which will break their wrist when they try to fire it? No, because most will be too scared to pull trigger and just end up getting shot themselves!

No no no no no

[Livefast123]

It's quite obvious from the replies on this thread that the armed response vehicle is viewed as a magic save your ar*e dream machine that engages warp drive to get where ever it is needed in seconds.....In our area the major cities have a 5 minute response time and god help you if you are out in maybe a city like Bath where response times could be around 20 minutes and even longer to rural area's. By the time they arrive it'll all be over and bear in mind that unarmed district units are sent first to most reports of somebody with a gun etc

 

I would not mind carrying a gun if thats what I am told to do, it will just become another part of my protective equipment. TASER has never caused me a problem and that is far more difficult to shoot than a sidearm as it has 2 projectiles with the bottom one firing down at an angle of 8 degrees.

 

Shooting in a stressful and dynamic environment against violent people who are armed with weapons is completely different to shooting targets or vermin.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Livefast123

[Ratman2]

I think the biggest let down the police have to handle is the law courts and out of touch judges and clued up defence lawyers, it's one thing getting the bad boys caught and in court, getting them convicted and dealt proper and fitting punishment is another.

I watch those tv programs like police interceptors etc, you watch the chase and the criminal being pursued puts other road users at risk, they ram the police and sometimes try to run a copper over, cause untold damage all filmed by the pursuing cop cars and once caught they get let off with a tiny fine and a ban, makes my urine boil.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Ratman2

[Pastiebap]

Operational Development Training

 

Eleven weeks pre-Tutorship training based at various Northern Ireland Police College sites, consisting of:

•2 weeks firearms training*

•3 weeks driver training (dependent on driving categories held)

•1 week tactical patrolling training*

•3 days First Aid training*

•3 days search training*

•1 day fire safety and HEP B injections

•3 days public order awareness

•2 days communications training

•2 days ICIS training

•3 days NICHE training

•1 week annual leave (compulsory due to number of days worked

 

I am sure they have to have refresher courses. Not sure how often but can find out.

 

Officer in the PSNI have to complete a qualification shoot every year.

[Pastiebap]

Also the Glock 17 is difficult to fire accurately, even when taking your time.

 

No it's not, it is very easy to shoot accurately.

 

From what I understand, firearms training is quite rare for your everyday officer. PSNI ARU's get more frequent training and are similar to those in england, wales and scotland.

 

If annual recertification for each firearms an officer is qualified to shoot is very rare then I suppose your right. Also if you fail your fail your Glock recertification then you automatically lose the qualification for any additional firearm, MP5, G36, HK33 etc and can only use again once recertified.

[kdubya]

No need, there's enough armed back up support and a F/A is a hindrance in most confrontational situations (rolling around on the floor with a drunk bloke who would then have an opportunity to seize a handgun).

 

More use of tazer is coming, all Boroughs in the Met now have officers trained to use tazer(until recently it was only ARV's and the TSG). Tazer is far more effective as a day to day tool than a gun.

 

For the record, I have been a cop for 22 years - I am not corrupt, inept and take a great personal and professional pride in doing my job to help the public. I have never in 22 years given out a speeding ticket or sent 9 cops to arrest a shop lifting Granny. Dixon of dock Green was a fictional character and those days did not exist, I personally would not want to go back to so called golden days when (although I have no proof of this whatsoever because it was all decades before I was born) it was common place to lock you up for 3-4 days in a cell until you put your hands up to something, where you could routinely be given a good beating because there was no regulation on what the police did and how they went about doing it.

 

Would I want to armed - no way as I don't feel arming all cops is a necessary or sensible path to go down.

 

well said a decent man speaks.

 

KW

[four-wheel-drive]

All I will say is that guy while ago a taxi driver I think shot his brother after he shot two people two police officers followed him for a bit but he stopped his car and shot at them being unarmed they had to let him go and he shot another eight people had the two cops been armed they could well have stopped him or at least been able to follow him until reinforcements arrived.

[gazzthompson]

Fair few years old, but worthy of thought:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1429849/Police-dont-want-to-carry-guns.html

[buckaroo23]

More officers need to be trained, gun crime is on the up, I don't think every one should carry guns, place where gun crime and gangs are on the increase should have more trained units.

The use to non lethal weapons should be rolled out tazzers etc, the use of non-lethal guns rubber bullets or the small sandbag projectiles maybe, if we just got more cops on the streets would be a start in stead of them doing office jobs, or being made redundant.

[cant hit rabbits 123]

I say we give them single barrel 12 bores with a pocket of 'bean bag' rounds. The force armourers can paint them black to match the rest of police kit and shooters can teach them how to use them.

Edited June 17, 2012 by cant hit rabbits 123

[ozzy518]

As another serving copper I'm not in favour of routinely arming of all cops. I work in a rural force and the prospect of any of us encountering MAC 10 toting Yardie types is quite remote. There is a need for a firearms capability within the force hence the ARV' s. Being smaller units it is far easier to train to a higher level rather than trying to train the entire force to what would be a lower level. I would however support a wider deployment of Taser. There should be one in every car and every front line officer trained in its use. I am told that the only reason this is not in place is due to the cost of the Taser cartridges . The training can be easily accommodated into the existing training.

[bobt]

West and North Yorkshire police practice locally to me, in disused offices, they run about knocking doors off the hinges haveing a whale of a time,

at least when it comes to the real thing, they are prepared,

I have had 6 ARV cops pointing guns at me, with their training, they only pointed them rather than shoot me,

I agree ARV cops only should be armed, with all front line cops having Tazers to hand.

[spanj]

No they should not be armed,

 

they should also stop dressing like some psuedo militia

 

agree with you....... why do they dress like sas ? dont tell me its to intimidate people, surely a h&k does that. Points to a dodgy mentality to me. No plod bashing intended just strikes me as a bit suspect

[compo90]

As another serving copper I'm not in favour of routinely arming of all cops. I work in a rural force and the prospect of any of us encountering MAC 10 toting Yardie types is quite remote. There is a need for a firearms capability within the force hence the ARV' s. Being smaller units it is far easier to train to a higher level rather than trying to train the entire force to what would be a lower level. I would however support a wider deployment of Taser. There should be one in every car and every front line officer trained in its use. I am told that the only reason this is not in place is due to the cost of the Taser cartridges . The training can be easily accommodated into the existing training.

 

 

you are an example of the above article from the guardian you work in a rural area ........the figures quoted in that article are national figures......work in a central london borough for 6 months and you will wonder how we manage without a gun.

 

the thing with a taser is .....its not a gun and you will lose in a gunfight. and if you shoot someone with a gun with a taser, the elctric shock causes their muscles to contract and they discharge their gun un-willingly due to your actions......so you may end up shot or causing the death of someone else anyway

 

the lower level of training is true, in the states all officers are armed, but they are not all swat officers, the ARV's are highly trained the same as the american swat teams......the normal officers are trained only to use their weapons in self defence, that is they have another tactical option open to them, so it would mean the next time i stop a car and get shot at I could shoot back if needed, or the next time me and a colleague are trying to seperate 300 club goers to get to the wounded party and someone shoots at us and escapes , we could at least draw our weapons and act as a deterent and the 300 people hiding behind us would actually feel we could protect them......or when walking down the street and a colleague is shot who was 3 feet away from me I could actually try and detain the fleeing suspect rather than hiding behind a post box...........all these things have happened to me

 

Fair few years old, but worthy of thought:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1429849/Police-dont-want-to-carry-guns.html

 

 

as above the vast majority work in sleepy country area's........not in the inner cities where criminals have access to illegal guns

 

I say we give them single barrel 12 bores with a pocket of 'bean bag' rounds. The force armourers can paint them black to match the rest of police kit and shooters can teach them how to use them.

 

 

thats not that bad an idea.......

[compo90]

We already have armed police over here really think its the way it should be.

 

 

a friend who lived in france for a while felt safer as the local old bill had guns.

 

my brother in law is from N/Ireland his dad was in the RUC.......it works there and i know they dont just chase terrorists