yickdaz Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Ok then im using #5 28g and although im currently not getting near pigeons with the load will it do the job? if it dosn,t do the job theres something wrong but as said the shot has to be on the bird in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Ok then im using #5 28g and although im currently not getting near pigeons with the load will it do the job? Yes Iv used an express load, 28g #5, one of the best game loads iv ever used,if it wasnt for the price going up, id still be using then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Gould Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 hi matey i use a quater, i use a 28 gram 6 made by RC they are as cheap as clay loads £42 for 250 crows,rooks,pigeons, rabbits they do the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoben fenman Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yeah mine are good quality but real cheapys they were a job lot for a company that went bust. Ill have those Yeah hitting the bird thats a good start, for the time being i might just use a blank firer!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillmouse Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I have been a gamekeeper for 33 years and if I catch anyones using 7.5's on any live quarry, except perhaps early season partridge, then they will be off our land so fast they won't know its happened until their backside lands on the other side of the boundary. Minimum shot size of No 6 for crows and if you have to be shooting at 50 yards then build a better hide, learn to keep still or perhaps buy a range finder and learn what 50 yards actually looks like. I thought the idea was to get them as close as possible and kill them not to try pulling off long range shots and wounding stuff. .......and yes, that was a rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) I have been a gamekeeper for 33 years and if I catch anyones using 7.5's on any live quarry, except perhaps early season partridge, then they will be off our land so fast they won't know its happened until their backside lands on the other side of the boundary. Minimum shot size of No 6 for crows and if you have to be shooting at 50 yards then build a better hide, learn to keep still or perhaps buy a range finder and learn what 50 yards actually looks like. I thought the idea was to get them as close as possible and kill them not to try pulling off long range shots and wounding stuff. .......and yes, that was a rant. What range do your guns shoot your pheasants/partridges then ? Edited July 31, 2012 by chrispti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillmouse Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Usually at about half the range they think they are. They do however mostly use a proper shot size for live quarry. No. 6 or larger and most common load these days is a 32 gram No.5 For extreme bird days 34, 36 and 42 gram 4's and even 3's seem popular. Sadly some still think it is sporting to shoot at birds way beyond the effective range to ensure a clean kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Ive been shooting pigeons with lyvale english sporter 7.5 28g carts for a couple of years now and have had some very good bags there isn't much difference in shot size with 6.5 eley hb pigeon. I use full choke in the gun and as long as its pointed in the right direction pigeons will drop like bricks. I wouldn't use them on game birds or crows tho....but overall a very capable clay/pigeon cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Usually at about half the range they think they are. They do however mostly use a proper shot size for live quarry. No. 6 or larger and most common load these days is a 32 gram No.5 For extreme bird days 34, 36 and 42 gram 4's and even 3's seem popular. Sadly some still think it is sporting to shoot at birds way beyond the effective range to ensure a clean kill. Still didn't answer the question though. What ranges do your guns shoot pheasant/partridge then? Presenting birds at ranges that warrant 42 g of 4's , how's that more sporting than birds shot at 40 yards with 6.5's? Archie Coates recommended 7's for pigeon, it's worked for me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 i use lyalvale express high velocity 28gram 7.5's and never had a runner. although saying that, i wont push out too far with them. my decoys are usually set out so that the birds come in at about 25 yards. i dont see a problem with using them if they are doing the job.... the local rough shoot that i beat on doesnt tend to like anyone using anything over 32 gram 6's as anything more than that just destroys the pheasents to a point that they are un-edible. plus, shooting a walked up pheasent with 42gram 4's at reasonably close range is rather unsporting/unsightly in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoben fenman Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 i use lyalvale express high velocity 28gram 7.5's and never had a runner. although saying that, i wont push out too far with them. my decoys are usually set out so that the birds come in at about 25 yards. i dont see a problem with using them if they are doing the job.... the local rough shoot that i beat on doesnt tend to like anyone using anything over 32 gram 6's as anything more than that just destroys the pheasents to a point that they are un-edible. plus, shooting a walked up pheasent with 42gram 4's at reasonably close range is rather unsporting/unsightly in my opinion. At least they then come ready minced :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I have been a gamekeeper for 33 years and if I catch anyones using 7.5's on any live quarry, except perhaps early season partridge, then they will be off our land so fast they won't know its happened until their backside lands on the other side of the boundary. Minimum shot size of No 6 for crows and if you have to be shooting at 50 yards then build a better hide, learn to keep still or perhaps buy a range finder and learn what 50 yards actually looks like. I thought the idea was to get them as close as possible and kill them not to try pulling off long range shots and wounding stuff. .......and yes, that was a rant. What has the fact that you've been a gamekeeper for 33 years got to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I wouldn't bother shooting at a pigeon at 50 yards with ANY cartridge, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan1986 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 hi mate i am all so usein 7.5 28g and i fine them spot on they do the job as long as you dont try and soot them to far out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 What has the fact that you've been a gamekeeper for 33 years got to do with anything? I think it suggests some experience in the subject being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I think it suggests some experience in the subject being discussed. So you think he has fired several thousand cartridges at live quarry that were loaded with 7.5s? Experience surely has more to do about what you've done than how long you've been a gamekeeper. I have experience of firing thousands of all types of pigeon and clay cartridges and have watched several others and the way they do things. There really isn't much benefit in shooting pigeons and crows with more expensive 32gm 6 (for example)cartridges rather than 7 or 7.5, UNLESS the user is shooting birds that are consistently 45-50+ yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Once again the 7.5s for pigeon/crow raises its ugly head , the simple fact is that 7.5s will kill pigeons easy at any sensible range, perhaps those that keep slating them should learn to shoot well enough to put a good pattern of pellets on a bird to kill it rather than hoping to get a couple of their number 5s to do the job . The proof of the pudding is in the shooting and they are more than up to the job. It amazes me that a old hand keeper is quite happy to let guns shoot at pheasants at such ranges that 42 grams of 4s are needed, thats really sporting don't you think I guess they tip better than the pigeon guys using 7.5s though Edited August 3, 2012 by fenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 If you are a competent shot and the birds are within a reasonable range, there is no doubt that 28gm 7.5's will kill cleanly. However, if you are likely to be taking shots beyond 30-35 yards, IMO you should move up to 6's. In a days decoying I reduce the odds by using 28 or 30gm 6's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr williamson Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 30grm 5s eley high flyers fantastic cartridge me and most of the fellas i shoot with use em and they do the job very well. Imop using 7.5s to shoot anything but clays isnt very wise or responsible yes they will kill at close to medium ranges but thats it. And to shoot at somthing at 50yds using 7.5s other than a clay is just ridiculous and inhumane. Sory for ranting on but have a bit of decency and shoot with a load thats sufficient and at a range that your confident with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Nobody has suggested they're suitable for 50 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 30grm 5s eley high flyers fantastic cartridge me and most of the fellas i shoot with use em and they do the job very well. Imop using 7.5s to shoot anything but clays isnt very wise or responsible yes they will kill at close to medium ranges but thats it. And to shoot at somthing at 50yds using 7.5s other than a clay is just ridiculous and inhumane. Sory for ranting on but have a bit of decency and shoot with a load thats sufficient and at a range that your confident with. Using 7.5s isn't wise or responsible? So, say i - when using 1oz of 7.5 shot - kill 9 out of 10 pigeons and miss 1, and someone else - using 30gm 5/6 - kills 7 pigeons out of 10 and wounds 3 that fly away. Who is the more wise or responsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooternick Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Nobody has suggested they're suitable for 50 yards. read the second post on the first page of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 read the second post on the first page of this thread Well one outa 4 pages isn't too bad though, a lot of people are poor judges of distances anyway, he probably mean 35 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoben fenman Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) I think it suggests some experience in the subject being discussed. Some!!! Hes probably shot more pigeons than I've had hot meals!!!! Edit: In other shooting disciplines people start flapping if you take a shot at the heart and lung region over the head. Here your aiming for the bird. As long as it knocks them out of the sky cleanly then whatever works for you. I would also say that people panic a huge amount about injured birds and give the keeper on here a lot of stick but I've been a beater / picker upper / trained monkey for only 2 years and the amount of runners is huge. If it kills the target then what could be better. Advocating cartridges that kill them better is completely correct with even my limited experience but you can still get too hung up on it. If you really want a clean kill how about a 50. cal that oughta kill it but you might not get alot to eat. Edited August 5, 2012 by theoben fenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillmouse Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) I mentioned having been a keeper 32 years as I believed it may illustrate enough experience to express an informed opinion. I suppose being a Qualified Instructor and Coach, running a shooting school and being a referee in several disciplines doesn't count for much either then? It is all about using the correct tool for the job. If there are extreme pheasants such as on my previous estate then a 36 or 42 gram in a 3 or 4 shot was the tool for the job. There a 32 gram 5 or less was the wrong tool for the job but the one the ill informed, cost conscious, or less experienced Guns tended to use. Quite honestly the number of wounded birds was disgusting and a situation which made me seriously question the whole shoots validity. I am very pleased no longer to be involved as such situations bring our sport in to disrepute and challenge my personal conscience. On another estate I have seen birds which the Guns consistently described as almost out of shot and the highest they had ever seen. When tested with a laser range finder the few which were positively "pinged" were mostly between 28 and 40 metres high, two of the very highest ranged at 79 m and 82 m and were described as "stratospheric". One of them was shot, but then again even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. I would not doubt a 28 gram 7.5 will consistently kill pigeons at up to 25 yards in the hands of a competent shot. I absolutely refuse to believe the same cartridge will consistently kill crows at 50 yards or that attempting to do so could ever be seen as humane or morally acceptable. There is a table which shows the energy needed to kill varying quarry species and the energy delivered by differing shot sizes at several ranges and the minimum number of pellet strikes required to do the job. It used to be in the excellent Eley Shooters diaries. It doesn't include .50 cal. but it is definitely enough. Edited August 5, 2012 by hillmouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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