Frenchieboy Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) I've not long got back in from an evenings shooting with a friend and to say I am furious is an understatement! I took a friend to shoot with me on a farm I have permission on and as per usual spoke to the farmer first. He said it was fine to have a friend with me as long as i trusted him, which obviously I did or I would not have invited him. The farmer then went on to tell me that two lads had been and said that I had sent them and said that it was OK for them to have permission to shoot and ferret there too. This the farmer thought strange as he knew that if I ever wanted someone else on there I would have spoken to him first and in person. He told them that he was not willing to give anyone except me permission and that he would speak to me about it so they immediately left. I know the two lads and I did take them there just after Christmas (With the farmer's permission) to ferret out a few warrens but I made it clear that it was purely a "one off" and not an invitation to go there whenever they wanted. The outcome is that the two lads have now been warned that if they are seen on that land either ferreting or shootin the police will immediately be informed and they will be charged accordingly. The farmer is also contacting the other farmers in the area of who these two are and advising that they should not be given permission. I too have phoned up one of the lads and he denied it even though he gave the farmer his name so I have told him not to bother ever asking me for any help again as I do not expect to have people that I help out trying to **** on me like that. I am not on my second can of cold beer and starting to simmer down a little and hopefully this little "episode" will not stop me from trying to help others out,but let this be a warning to others - Be carefull on who you trust! Edit: Maybe I should add that there is no reason why anyone should not sak for permission on any land, after all it is a free country and entirely up to the individual landowner who he wants on his land. What I do object to is when people say that I have sent them and said that it will be OK for them to have permission! Edited July 28, 2012 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Makes my blood boil that you can do someone a favour then they dump on you. Just makes it harder for genuine newcomers to the sport to find someone to take them out as people are getting wary of this happening to them. Ingrates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Ah Frenchie, I'm sorry to hear that. We all know what you mean and some of us (myself included) have been there before. People can be ****, there's not more that can be said for it, but out of the few dozen that are **** there are thousands of brilliant hard working people who'd enjoy every second of shooting opportunity you can give, and give it their full respect with that, so don't let the few spoil your view of everyone. Drink a few more beers, and just keep doing what you do best. -Edit- Don't feel like drinking any more beers? Don't worry, I'm going to finish tonight on a few more Glenn's on your behalf. Edited July 28, 2012 by Bleeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 That is not the way to go about gettin permission by trying to stuff someone willing to take folk for free.You did the right thing by telling them to go forth and multiply.It spoils it for those who want to go shooting and cannot because you are wary of it happening again so you stop offering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro68 Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 hi there mate, i know exactly how you feel ,i have a permission close to my house and its constantly poached , i was walking the dog one day and seen the bloke with a lurcher and air rifle ,i casually asked the guy if he had permission he says yeah mate , i know the farmer, i later phoned the farmer and he assured me no one else has permission,i have seen him many times and warned him off but it seems he and his son just do as they want , i have even been told to watch myself in case they find out where i stay. i dont really care , i just ****** me off that i took the time to go around and get permission yet they just go where ever they want.I think you have just been unlucky , dont let them put you off helping people out and let them spoil it for others as your obviously a decent bloke and trying to help people out, have a few more beers and put it down to experience .happy hunting. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Its a shame but it makes us all very cautious making it hard for newcomers to gain shooting, afer all there is only a certain amount of shooting to go around. Deer shooting is probably the hardest one to break into,not only do you have to be wary of permission poachers but also down right poaching. On the other hand there are a few that like to collect permissions and stalking yet do not bother to actually manage their ground and fullfill their duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 name and shame.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty thud Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 yep yu think your doing other people a favour by taking them out on your permissions and all they du is stab yu in the back i took a lad on mine about 3 month ago now and he was going to return me by taking me on his permission as he has a lot off land in yorkshire dales but not heard a thing makes me wonder if he was just pulling my plonker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 unfortunatly greed is a motivator for much wrong doing. Been there done that got a list of people who have abused help given. One guy got mentored for his FAC taken to two stalking venues and sorted his DSC1 at very cheap "test only" rates and then still did it (only recently i was told he had been busy helping himself to another guys permision after a few days as a guest). Most decent guys return the favour, i feel quite bad when i cannot for any reason. Some on the other hand rarely if ever do so and we all know the solution to that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 name and shame.. These two lads are not forum members Richie so it would not do much good to name and shame them, if they had been forum members I might well have named and shamed straight away so others knew what the score was with them. I will say however that these are two lads from Waterfoot and nearby Water that go about in a black Vitara with their ferrets and nets. One of them has even been seen recently on a public road carrying an uncovered air rifle up near one of my permissions and has been given a definite warning about it by the landowner there! I spoke to one of them over the phone as soon as I got back in and informed him (In no uncertain terms and not too politely) that he had been sussed and that he would be wasting his time asking any of the other farmers in the area for permission as the farmer who I was with yesterday was already putting the word out! I wouldn't have minded so much if they hadn't used my name and told the farmer that I had sent them to see him for permission. As many members of this forum will know I will go out of my way to try to help others whenever I can but as has been said, you don't expect to get stabbed in the back when you go out of your way to help someone out. I even (Earlier this year) got these two lads a ferretting permission on a farm that would have been quite awkward for me to shoot on because of all the horses on the land in question! While I am a bit peed off with this "episode" (I've simmered down and slept on it since last night) it will not stop me from trying to help others, but that help will in future come with a definite warning that this sort of behavious will not be tollerated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 If you know people are poaching your shoot and you see them, ring the farmer and then ring the police. Keep doing this until they act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 If you know people are poaching your shoot and you see them, ring the farmer and then ring the police. Keep doing this until they act. That is exactly what me and the farmer on this permission are going to do now that they have been "warned"! If I spot them anywhere on the land in question I will straight away be taking a few photos (I always nowadays carry a small digital camera/camcorder in my shooting bag and we all know that photographic evedence is almost undisputable) and phoning the farmer straight away in the hope that the police come down on them like a ton of bricks! I'm normally a fairly gentle mannered "live and let live" type of chap but I am not going to be dumped on in that sort of way by people I help out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Its a shame but it makes us all very cautious making it hard for newcomers to gain shooting, afer all there is only a certain amount of shooting to go around. Deer shooting is probably the hardest one to break into,not only do you have to be wary of permission poachers but also down right poaching. On the other hand there are a few that like to collect permissions and stalking yet do not bother to actually manage their ground and fullfill their duties. Ain't that the truth. There is more chicanery and spite around in stalking than any other field sport. I know of plenty of instances where stalkers buy out competitors and then do nothing with the land just to spite the other guy. Or stalkers who pay over the odds for ground adjacent to someone else's just so they can take out their best stags and bucks and so stuff their neighbours commercial prospects. In general there is too much 'stalking' going on and not enough deer management and not enough people who understand the difference. I think the problem is there are now so many people stalking that the very large areas that were controlled by a handful of genuine professionals 25 years ago have broken up into small pockets as the pros retired and are now subject to a feeding frenzy by an over-supply of hobby stalkers who pay for 'commercial' stalking rights and jealously guard their tiny patch. The farmer thinks he's gaining because he's getting cash, no meaningful culling takes place and the possibility of sound population mangement goes out of the window. Increasingly, conservation groups and firearms departments are becoming aware of this. I would not not be surprised if a minimum acreage of contiguous land is not required soon for stalking calibres to be granted for deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 think id be loseing my tickets if some one did that too me after id took them out on mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) think id be loseing my tickets if some one did that too me after id took them out on mine This is something that I had to think hard about when I was told what had happen yesterday evening as it was the first thing that came inot my mind! My first thoughts were to go straight round to see one of the lads but the friend that I had with me is attached to the local police, working in their surveilance department. It may not have been the cleverest thing to do. Edited July 29, 2012 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houlsby Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 **** when people do that, iv had it done to me off someone on here. he had a stamp sized bit of land right on the end of my permission and thought it was ok to approach the farmer on my land after id taken him out. we only realised when the farmer was telling me about a new kid who uses "nitevision"! wouldnt let it worry you tho, least you've not got dog men driving round your land like we have up north! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washerboy Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 its the thing this day and age sadly. i have been invited on lots of land and hand on heart never gone back alone or with out being asked. i had a fall out with a lad and could go poach his spot as i know all the ways in and out and can watch the land owner leave but i still wouldnt do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogrun Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 good morning everybody,yes i had exactly the same thing myself.when myself and two friends were looking around for some pigeons we could'nt find any birds about so me stupid has i am said come on i'll take to a realy good farm where i did most of my pigeon shooting,myself and a different friend shot 1074 pigeons in five weeks,anyway i took these boys there,we shot about fifty,the following week i went on my own has i was going up the farmers drive i saw the two boys that i took setting out they're decoys i was mad but i just sat there watching them,they don't know to this day that i was there watching them,i never said anything to them but they wont be shooting with me again,i could never do that i would'nt be able to look them in the face,i think its lower than a snakes belly when you do things like that,getting permission is hard enough then you get somebody to ruin it for you, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Ain't that the truth. There is more chicanery and spite around in stalking than any other field sport. I know of plenty of instances where stalkers buy out competitors and then do nothing with the land just to spite the other guy. Or stalkers who pay over the odds for ground adjacent to someone else's just so they can take out their best stags and bucks and so stuff their neighbours commercial prospects. In general there is too much 'stalking' going on and not enough deer management and not enough people who understand the difference. I think the problem is there are now so many people stalking that the very large areas that were controlled by a handful of genuine professionals 25 years ago have broken up into small pockets as the pros retired and are now subject to a feeding frenzy by an over-supply of hobby stalkers who pay for 'commercial' stalking rights and jealously guard their tiny patch. The farmer thinks he's gaining because he's getting cash, no meaningful culling takes place and the possibility of sound population mangement goes out of the window. Increasingly, conservation groups and firearms departments are becoming aware of this. I would not not be surprised if a minimum acreage of contiguous land is not required soon for stalking calibres to be granted for deer. yes, stalking has changed much and not for the better. I genuinely think that the current trend does nothing for the landowner or the deer in the long run. Leases are too expensive now and even the good guys need to make it pay as a result. Deer are an asset but not in the way they are now being regarded, i do little deer work now as i just won't play this new greed game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ste12b Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 I've not long got back in from an evenings shooting with a friend and to say I am furious is an understatement! I took a friend to shoot with me on a farm I have permission on and as per usual spoke to the farmer first. He said it was fine to have a friend with me as long as i trusted him, which obviously I did or I would not have invited him. The farmer then went on to tell me that two lads had been and said that I had sent them and said that it was OK for them to have permission to shoot and ferret there too. This the farmer thought strange as he knew that if I ever wanted someone else on there I would have spoken to him first and in person. He told them that he was not willing to give anyone except me permission and that he would speak to me about it so they immediately left. I know the two lads and I did take them there just after Christmas (With the farmer's permission) to ferret out a few warrens but I made it clear that it was purely a "one off" and not an invitation to go there whenever they wanted. The outcome is that the two lads have now been warned that if they are seen on that land either ferreting or shootin the police will immediately be informed and they will be charged accordingly. The farmer is also contacting the other farmers in the area of who these two are and advising that they should not be given permission. I too have phoned up one of the lads and he denied it even though he gave the farmer his name so I have told him not to bother ever asking me for any help again as I do not expect to have people that I help out trying to **** on me like that. I am not on my second can of cold beer and starting to simmer down a little and hopefully this little "episode" will not stop me from trying to help others out,but let this be a warning to others - Be carefull on who you trust! Edit: Maybe I should add that there is no reason why anyone should not sak for permission on any land, after all it is a free country and entirely up to the individual landowner who he wants on his land. What I do object to is when people say that I have sent them and said that it will be OK for them to have permission! That is a very sad situation. Pete is a great guy and they should be grateful that someone with his experience is willing to take them out. Don't let it put you off Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecooper1 Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 That is a very sad situation. Pete is a great guy and they should be grateful that someone with his experience is willing to take them out. Don't let it put you off Pete Will second that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 That is disgusting it would proper pee me off to French unfortunately I don't think I could of sat on my hands like you done I would of been round there and given the a right earful. It's just unforgivable well done though frenchie for keeping your cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 That is disgusting it would proper pee me off to French unfortunately I don't think I could of sat on my hands like you done I would of been round there and given the a right earful. It's just unforgivable well done though frenchie for keeping your cool I wouldn't say that I completely kept my cool when I got one of the lads on the phone and he certainly got the message! One thing that I can say it that it will not stop me from taking newcommers or novices on to my permissions (Which the farmers are happy for me to do) as a "one off" to try to help them out, but I will be a little more cautious about who I take and I will want to know that I can trust them not to try doing the same. I have had a lot of people help me out in many ways throughout my life and I am happy to return the compliment. What goes around comes around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecooper1 Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 I wouldn't say that I completely kept my cool when I got one of the lads on the phone and he certainly got the message! One thing that I can say it that it will not stop me from taking newcommers or novices on to my permissions (Which the farmers are happy for me to do) as a "one off" to try to help them out, but I will be a little more cautious about who I take and I will want to know that I can trust them not to try doing the same. I have had a lot of people help me out in many ways throughout my life and I am happy to return the compliment. What goes around comes around! Well said Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well said Pete Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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