Best Cartridge for Pigeon

[T-Bolt94]

I would be of the opinion 28g 7.5s (12 gauge U/O) are a fairly good standard cartridge for most things, bit of an all rounder. Noticed yesterday though that I was hitting a few pigeon followed by a plum of feathers without the pigeon even flinching and flying on. I generally would have said they were well within range.

 

Thanks

Edited September 6, 2012 by T-Bolt94

[fenboy]

I have just answered this very same question in another thread , a plume of feathers and a bird carrying on means you have hit feathers or just pricked it at best , a bird falling from the sky means you have hit meat !! the answer is to simply shoot straighter, pigeon do not wear body armour.

[BRAD1927]

I have just answered this very same question in another thread , a plume of feathers and a bird carrying on means you have hit feathers or just pricked it at best , a bird falling from the sky means you have hit meat !! the answer is to simply shoot straighter, pigeon do not wear body armour.

 

:good:

[Scully]

Agree with Fenboy.You can blow feathers from a pigeon with any cartridge.I've seen pheasants come down stone dead from 28grm 7.5's;admittedly they weren't very high,but they were very dead.

[T-Bolt94]

Well, In some regards I would have to disagree somewhat. I come from a racing pigeon family and one thing commonly known is that the breast of a pigeon is extremely strong firstly the breastbone leading to the keel and secondly the way the feathers overlap and interlock similar to old style medieval armour. It is amazing what a racer can hit and survive with only peels of skin missing. I would consider 7.5s to be a good cartridge but I think I should have reworded the question a little relating to the height of the pigeons yesterday, I'm thinking my 28gs were losing their power and was wondering what would be the best cart for getting that slight extra range. 32g 6s?

 

 

Thanks

[fenboy]

Racing pigeons though are nothing like as loose feathered as wood pigeon though are they. they are also bred to be lean and muscular not fat as woodies .

Any reasonable cartridges will kill pigeon at 40 yards or more .

[mossy835]

iv hit pigeons from some way out, with 28gram,7/1/2 and they were dead

[swiss.tony]

why you asking then just use what your happy with if your happy using clay shells then crack on if you want to no what 95 per cent of proper pigeon shooters on here use are 30-32 gram number 6" any shell will kill anything you fire it a very close range ie 20 yards its more likely your just behind the bird and that why your getting puffs of feathers get sum black gold they hit very hard

Edited September 6, 2012 by swiss.tony

[EdSolomons]

Best shell for pigeons is the cheapest you can get your hands on. Upto 40 odd yards which is where most are shot the cheapest clay shell is more than enough.

[T-Bolt94]

OK, thanks I bought 4 boxes of gamebore 32g 6s today to try before buying any great number. I was shooting Eley Blues which I guess would be a clay shell, and Hull ProSport I think they are. I will give them a whirl tomorrow and see how I get on. Just wanted to make sure 30-32g 6s was the way to go as the pigeons were staying high due to the low wind and standing crop they were only partly commiting to decoys.

 

Thanks folks!

[GingerCat]

Without wanting to hijack the thread, what's people's views on game bores clear pigeon 32g no 6( black case). I had a good day Sunday but noticed a few were clearly hit with a load of feathers (in coming birds under 35 yards) and they didn't drop at all. Switched to some express special game in 5 and they quite literally knocked the stuffing out of them at 40 yards.

Is this typical of clear pigeon or was I being a bit of a girl on those shots?

[motty]

why you asking then just use what your happy with if your happy using clay shells then crack on if you want to no what 95 per cent of proper pigeon shooters on here use are 30-32 gram number 6" any shell will kill anything you fire it a very close range ie 20 yards its more likely your just behind the bird and that why your getting puffs of feathers get sum black gold they hit very hard

Just out of interest, what makes a proper pigeon shooter?

[David BASC]

Personally I think 7.5’s are a tad small for live quarry shooting.

 

Remember shotgun pellets kill by penetrating though non vital tissues such as feather, skin, muscle to hit vital tissues such as major blood vessels, heart, lungs or central nervous system.

 

Basic physics says smaller lighter things accelerate faster, but slow down faster too when they hit resistance.

 

So as you may have seen at the end of their effective range you are evidently hitting the birds with a decent pattern, hence the puff of feathers, but the pelts aren’t getting though.

 

So to answer your question of what’s the best pigeon cartridge, in my opinion its 32g no 6 generally, but 5’s will also do a perfectly good job too I agree.

 

David

[Cosd]

I would be of the opinion 28g 7.5s (12 gauge U/O) are a fairly good standard cartridge for most things, bit of an all rounder. Noticed yesterday though that I was hitting a few pigeon followed by a plum of feathers without the pigeon even flinching and flying on. I generally would have said they were well within range.

 

Thanks

 

 

Out of interest, which cartridges are you using exactly? Are they trap, sporting, skeet?

Also are they a Euro 7.5 size or English?

 

All the above will make a difference in performance and shot pattern.

 

Cos

Edited September 7, 2012 by Cosd

[dougall]

Gamebore 32g 6s are superb.As you asked for a general all round shell I guess that might mean rabbit/crow etc as such a better choice than 7.5s. 7/7.5s are fine for decoying if the pigeons are decoying well/summer etc...if you want to push to 40 yarders/roost shooting then 6s would be way to go.....please dont shoot 40 yard rabbits with 7.5s and don't even raise your gun if hares are on your patch......atb

[chrispti]

Without wanting to hijack the thread, what's people's views on game bores clear pigeon 32g no 6( black case). I had a good day Sunday but noticed a few were clearly hit with a load of feathers (in coming birds under 35 yards) and they didn't drop at all. Switched to some express special game in 5 and they quite literally knocked the stuffing out of them at 40 yards.

Is this typical of clear pigeon or was I being a bit of a girl on those shots?

 

I had the same results using them through my auto. They seem to perform better through the ou.

[Salop Matt]

Never had a problem with either the white or black GB clear pigeon ! Ive always used these for all my pigeon and crow work but if i get any decoying then I will give the 7.5 28gram carts a bash as I keep hearing good things about the results from these !

[Degalle79]

The short Pigeon special No. 6s (express as far as I recall), the clue is in the name! Brilliant and not a killer with recoil.

[T-Bolt94]

Out of interest, which cartridges are you using exactly? Are they trap, sporting, skeet?

Also are they a Euro 7.5 size or English?

 

All the above will make a difference in performance and shot pattern.

 

Cos

 

I have been using 3 different types of shell as I do a bit of everything really just getting started but my dad is an experienced shooter although not really up to date with modern techniques, shells etc.

 

Eley Olympics 12 gauge - 28g - 7.5

Hull ProSport High Performance 12 gauge - 28g - 7.5

Gamebore Club 12 gauge - 32g - 6 (green case)

 

and then my clay specific fibre wads

 

Trap 12 gauge - 28g - 7.5

 

 

Personally I think 7.5’s are a tad small for live quarry shooting.

 

Remember shotgun pellets kill by penetrating though non vital tissues such as feather, skin, muscle to hit vital tissues such as major blood vessels, heart, lungs or central nervous system.

 

Basic physics says smaller lighter things accelerate faster, but slow down faster too when they hit resistance.

 

So as you may have seen at the end of their effective range you are evidently hitting the birds with a decent pattern, hence the puff of feathers, but the pelts aren’t getting though.

 

So to answer your question of what’s the best pigeon cartridge, in my opinion its 32g no 6 generally, but 5’s will also do a perfectly good job too I agree.

 

David

 

David, thanks for this information. It is what I suspected the issue was. I have since purchased 32g 6s and hope to try them out this afternoon and I shall give you some feedback. It's strange though because I had a few Lyvale 24g 7.5s in my coat pocket which I had forgotten about and I took 2 pigeon clean shot at a range I wouldn't have knowing I had them chambered. Physics, amazing stuff!

Edited September 7, 2012 by T-Bolt94

[Cosd]

I'm not sure I'd personally choose fibres, though they would be fine with birds over decoys the pattern will open too soon and be a bit light at distance. For that reason trap cartridges, as I have recently found out, throw the tightest pattern therefore better at longer distance shots.

 

In my very limited experience using 28g 7.5 Fiochi's, I haven't seen any issue with any of the ranges I would attempt even with a 6 shot. I've experienced and seen them bring down pigeons at 50 yards (not the usual distance we shoot) and crows at 35 yards all dead in the air.

 

 

Cos

Edited September 7, 2012 by Cosd

[Guest cookoff013]

Personally I think 7.5’s are a tad small for live quarry shooting.

 

Remember shotgun pellets kill by penetrating though non vital tissues such as feather, skin, muscle to hit vital tissues such as major blood vessels, heart, lungs or central nervous system.

 

Basic physics says smaller lighter things accelerate faster, but slow down faster too when they hit resistance.

 

So as you may have seen at the end of their effective range you are evidently hitting the birds with a decent pattern, hence the puff of feathers, but the pelts aren’t getting though.

 

So to answer your question of what’s the best pigeon cartridge, in my opinion its 32g no 6 generally, but 5’s will also do a perfectly good job too I agree.

 

David

 

david,

An exellent post, i`m on the side of #6 minimum too. But i`m going to say, i`ve reloaded enough different cartridges to different speeds to know that pigeon loads are economy speed loads. they are loaded to the bare minimum. where as a special "game" loaded cartridge is miles away from a cheap pigeon load. even though they have the same 30g /#6. they are totally different.

 

in the event i was ever "desperate" for cartridges and had just one option, i`d use 28g 7.5s like world cup / supercomp / black gold / etc. but in all reality they are the same money as a standard 32g #5 load which is better in every aspect.

[fenboy]

Personally I think 7.5’s are a tad small for live quarry shooting.

 

Remember shotgun pellets kill by penetrating though non vital tissues such as feather, skin, muscle to hit vital tissues such as major blood vessels, heart, lungs or central nervous system.

 

Basic physics says smaller lighter things accelerate faster, but slow down faster too when they hit resistance.

 

So as you may have seen at the end of their effective range you are evidently hitting the birds with a decent pattern, hence the puff of feathers, but the pelts aren’t getting though.

 

So to answer your question of what’s the best pigeon cartridge, in my opinion its 32g no 6 generally, but 5’s will also do a perfectly good job too I agree.

 

David

 

Is that your opinion or that of the BASC David , as it seems strange that Will Garfitt says 7.5s are good enough in the BASC introduction to pigeon shooting video .

Personally I have shot 1000s of pigeon with 7.5s I have also shot 1000s with 6s and cant say I have ever noticed ant difference in kills at sensible ranges

 

Also bear in mind a smaller pellet may slow down quicker but a smaller pellet will also penetrate more easily , look at it as the difference between sticking a pin in your arm or a 6 inch nail , its going to take lots more energy to push that nail in !!

Edited September 7, 2012 by fenboy

[David BASC]

If you read my post agian it starts with the word ' Personally'. I hope that make it clear that its my PERSONAL view, if not let me know

 

As to BASC's oficial view on pellet sizes - see here: http://www.basc.org..../shot-sizes.cfm

 

As to the pin and the nail - yes true what you say, but which one will do the most dammage to the tissues...

 

David

[fenboy]

If you read my post agian it starts with the word ' Personally'. I hope that make it clear that its my PERSONAL view, if not let me know

 

As to BASC's oficial view on pellet sizes - see here: http://www.basc.org..../shot-sizes.cfm

 

As to the pin and the nail - yes true what you say, but which one will do the most dammage to the tissues...

 

David

 

The nail will cause more damage to the tissue , but if the pin is long enough which will be easier to push through the tissue into a vital organ

At the end of the day this is a debate that has gone on forever , each individual has his own idea on what is suitable and I personally will use anything from 28g 7.5s to 32g 6s, cost is my deciding factor not shot size.

The critical factor will always be putting a dense enough pattern of pellets on the bird to kill it cleanly.

[Guest cookoff013]

Is that your opinion or that of the BASC David , as it seems strange that Will Garfitt says 7.5s are good enough in the BASC introduction to pigeon shooting video .

Personally I have shot 1000s of pigeon with 7.5s I have also shot 1000s with 6s and cant say I have ever noticed ant difference in kills at sensible ranges

 

Also bear in mind a smaller pellet may slow down quicker but a smaller pellet will also penetrate more easily , look at it as the difference between sticking a pin in your arm or a 6 inch nail , its going to take lots more energy to push that nail in !!

 

no, smaller pellets dont penetrate more easily, the shot with the largest amount of energy does. so by your theory, 9s penetrate better than 5s? both 6s and 5s and all larger shotsizes retain more energy over distance.

did you know if you fired 2 cartridges, 1400fps #6 and a 1050fps #4, the #4 still retains more energy even after 50-60 yards and beyond. even though the speed is slower.

 

smaller pellets loose energy faster than larger ones, but dont forget both shotsizes are at the same speed. over the distance the larger pellet will allways hold on the the energy. so it decelerates slower than the smaller pellet.

 

if i fire a pin into your arm, its going to hurt, if i fire a 6" nail in your arm at the same speed, you bet it will hurt a whole lot more, penetrate more too.