Trevorevans Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Been shooting clays for a few months and up untill about 3 weeks ago was buying my cartridges from the clay ground and had so far used Ely Olympics, Rio Target Load and Diana's, however following a few visits where they didn't have any 28g 7.5 load I went elsewhere and purchased the cheapest I could get my hands on and saved myself £20 over a 1000. I had been improving quite well up untill I'd bought this batch of Dan arms Sport but now I don't seem to be hitting half as well as I was and the carts are the only things I have consciously changed, they also leave a lot of residue in the barrels. So the question is does the quality of cartridge really make that much difference? bearing in mind I'm a beginner, or am I just having a rough patch and looking for somewhere to lay blame?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicblue Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Being inconsistent is part of the constant process of learning to shoot clays - or so it seems anyway and that probably leads to the addictive nature of the sport...next time I'll be better......! I'd suggest that you find a cartridge make/load and stick to that - they are not all created equally. Some carts are noticeably faster than others - I like Eley VIPs and Fiocchi Golden Trap for this - but the associated price rather less so. I'm not a fan of 28s - the recoil is unpleasant to my mind and the targets break just as well with 24s or even 21s - you might save some money too. Equally some a more mucky than others too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 It's not the shell mate, it's you. And the more it sticks in your head the "worse" the shell will seem. As above, best to stick to one shell purely from a consistency of approach, but in the cold hard light of day they all do exactly the same job out to about 60 yards. Find something cheap and comfortable and stick with it, but if you can't get your regular shell don't let it blow your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDread Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Surely patterning comes into it here. I tried Dan arms Sport once and my Browning XS did not pattern at all well with them. I changed cartridges half way round a competition I was missing that badly with them. My Benelli Vinci enjoyed them however. Whenever I think about changing brand now I pattern and compare to what I am already shooting and as above stick with that cartridge as long as I can afford to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Trevor, Now that you think its the cartridges it will be hard to convince yourself it is not........if you liked say Eley Olympics buy a slab of those and use no other,in this way you can tell yourself the shells are fine and thats one thing not to think/worry about!! As Ed says above though it is very very unlikely to be the shells..I think Dan Arms are made by Lyevale Express........and they are as good as any...whilst some guns do prefer certain loads/shells for the likely clay presentations you are being shown as a 'beginner' any cartridge will do the job.As to the 'they leave the barrels dirty'' this really is'nt relevant as I expect you clean your gun after every outing?The only time to be worried about your barrels is if they leave something large,like a bit of wadding in ie after a misfire or a 'phut' sound ....always check barrels in that event.But for just general detritus/powder marks etc I would'nt judge a cartridge on that basis. Keep practising,don't expect a linear progression there will be odd days when scores drop back,some simply down to the mood you are in/weather etc!!Compare your average scores every 3/4 months that is the best way to see improvement....and if you shooting weekly and they are not improving don't change cartridge change coach! atb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 It's not the shell mate, it's you. And the more it sticks in your head the "worse" the shell will seem. As above, best to stick to one shell purely from a consistency of approach, but in the cold hard light of day they all do exactly the same job out to about 60 yards. Find something cheap and comfortable and stick with it, but if you can't get your regular shell don't let it blow your mind. +1 although, there are some noticable differences between some shells, shells are made for the different markets, for instance world cup shells are Ferocious, same as soverign, and some others. they also have a price to match, it takes one hell of an effort to get that shell 1500fps. primarily these are for competitons where a few extra points may benefit the shooter, that is not an excuse to think that the shells will make you shoot better. Ed S has some good advice, but i would re-iterate, find something comfortable. my favourite shell is intercomp HV, and i havent seen one for years. cant say its done me any harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Less than perfect patterns might cost you a bird or two over a hundred birder, and then only the longer stuff that you see less of nowadays. It's no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Im no clay buster....but rather than go out with a different lot of cartridges i would have hung on, until i could get hold of my usual cartridges......saying all that, i have bought my usual shells from someone different and they have left a residue (more than usual) in the barrels talking with other guys they mentioned they had similar experiences and i was found out the gunshop stacked the ammo on a concrete floor in a lock up outside...furthermore the slabs were 4 years old ! the next lot you fire off leave in the airing cupboard for 3 days...and check the manufature date on the side of the slab box.....if they have been stored correctly 2-3 years is fine ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gozzy Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm told most if the muck left in barrels is from the primer charge and not the load or main powder , anybody else heard that ? Something to do with it being the last to exit the barrel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 All gets pushed out by the next one, never something that has worried me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyboy Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 get some with a big brass and that cost at least £200 a thousand ! will improve your confidence no end ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I'm told most if the muck left in barrels is from the primer charge and not the load or main powder , anybody else heard that ? Something to do with it being the last to exit the barrel ? Nope, residue left behind is the from the main powder charge, most likely due to pressure not high enough to give clean burn. All gets pushed out by the next one, never something that has worried me! +1 get some with a big brass and that cost at least £200 a thousand ! will improve your confidence no end ! hmmm ? good for a laugh though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skabo1 Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Been shooting clays for a few months and up untill about 3 weeks ago was buying my cartridges from the clay ground and had so far used Ely Olympics, Rio Target Load and Diana's, however following a few visits where they didn't have any 28g 7.5 load I went elsewhere and purchased the cheapest I could get my hands on and saved myself £20 over a 1000. I had been improving quite well up untill I'd bought this batch of Dan arms Sport but now I don't seem to be hitting half as well as I was and the carts are the only things I have consciously changed, they also leave a lot of residue in the barrels. So the question is does the quality of cartridge really make that much difference? bearing in mind I'm a beginner, or am I just having a rough patch and looking for somewhere to lay blame?. I'm not normally terribly influenced by another person's experience in this respect, as many have suggested when we hit a bad patch we tend to look for reasons other than our own failings. I recently bought a load of 28gm 71/2 Dan Arms and my score went through the floor. In the past and with a different gun I got on quite well with these cartridges. They are manufactured by Lyalvale Express of whom I normally have nothing but praise, their steel shot cartridges are out of this world so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 I get the impression that the Dan Arms cartridge has replaced the D & J in the Express Lyvale stable as the cheapie, albeit with slightly less dramatic results. May I suggest that you seriously consider Fiocchi Top One, available in either fibre or plastic wads, at prices that won't break the bank. Shooters in the North West, can get them here: http://www.norgascartridges.co.uk webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tod Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Been shooting clays for a few months and up untill about 3 weeks ago was buying my cartridges from the clay ground and had so far used Ely Olympics, Rio Target Load and Diana's, however following a few visits where they didn't have any 28g 7.5 load I went elsewhere and purchased the cheapest I could get my hands on and saved myself £20 over a 1000. I had been improving quite well up untill I'd bought this batch of Dan arms Sport but now I don't seem to be hitting half as well as I was and the carts are the only things I have consciously changed, they also leave a lot of residue in the barrels. So the question is does the quality of cartridge really make that much difference? bearing in mind I'm a beginner, or am I just having a rough patch and looking for somewhere to lay blame?. i only ever use dan arms for claying and never had an issue with them, maybe your set up doesnt like them, try pattern testing them, the last thing you want to do is get it into your head that its the cartridge and start swapping and changing all the time, find a cartridge you like, buy in bulk and stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock & Barrel Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) Tried Eley, Hull, Cheddite and a couple of others, and now have moved to Fiocchi Top 1s as they don't kick like a mule, regardless of whether 24 or 28g. They also do a 21g. Webber above does very competitive prices on the whole range, so I'd get in amongst it if I were you - whilst bearing in mind Ed's comment above, that it's invariably not the shell alone that needs addressing. Good luck. Edited November 16, 2012 by Lock Stock & Barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikky Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 thumbs up for webber..just bought a 1000 carts and got a free baseball cap.. mikky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddJob Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Less than perfect patterns might cost you a bird or two over a hundred birder, and then only the longer stuff that you see less of nowadays. It's no big deal. Good sense from someone who knows. I've always thought that they all go bang in roughly the same way, it's just where you put them that counts. Maybe you've just got complacent and aren't trying as hard now you are not as 'new'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) There can be reasons why some cartridges perform better in one gun and there can be reasons why cheap cartridges are cheaper but in the end its probably more in your head than anything else. Its good to experiment with cartridges though just to expand your awareness of the subject. There is another possibility that I noticed when you said you had been shooting clays for a few months. Maybe you have hit the wall that many hit around that time when you start trying too hard, for want of a more meaningful description of the dip in performance that hits a lot of people around that stage. Edited November 17, 2012 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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