kent Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 its not like in the movies, you aim you shoot and you kill- a shotgun at short range is a very lethal tool. After that you have to live with it maybee in prison cell if you make a bad call! every night you are likely to see the very graphic results of your actions as you close your eyes and it isny going to be pretty. A shotgun would be the last thing i should reach for, i belive in the right to defend yourself but also in our laws of that which is reasonable and balanced to the threat. its a bit different in the states when you can expect the other side to be carrying a firearm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I doubt I'd ever go for a gun if it came down to it unless I'd seen an armed person approaching my house, not that I think anyone is wrong for saying they would do as if you genuinely believe your life is in danger then you should use any means possible. I keep two kubotans (the pointed type) in my bedside draw if the dogs kick off or the alarm goes off I go down with one in each hand. thankfully on the two occasions I have gone down its been false alarms, but I know I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a couple of blows to the collar bone, shoulders or arms with them. There designed for putting pressure on joints or pressure points or can attach your keys to them to use as a flail to aim for the face/eyes/hands to disable/dissarm someone or to just to grip to give a more solid punch. I'd rather use these than get caught out trying to figure out which keys which whilst scrambling for a gun. best bet is get yourself a decent dog or two, I've got two staffies who are lovely natured dogs but if they hear anything in the night or the door or gate goes even in daytime they go mad till they it's ok, neither are naturally people or dog aggressive but both have a guarding protective nature and I've no doubt they'd both die before anyone hurt my wife. I'd rather deter a burglar with barking dogs than have to apprehend one but if it boiled down to it they'd be getting windmilled with blows till they was down and probably a few extra for luck, I'm just glad the law is now starting to look after the innocent a little better as it might make some of these scumbags think again if they know there not as well protected now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retromlc Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I would think most intruders are after an easy target,and most would run if you even turn the lights on,dogs barking would also see them off.There cannot be many hardened criminals that would continue to force entry should the owner be alerted to their presence. You would have to be well known for your material possestions to attract determined criminals. As for shooting them, I'd rather get my family out the oppisite side they were coming in and let them help themselves,should they get the gun off me i would expect them to shoot me with it!!! In the real world it never ends up with you being the hero in a Jackie Chan movie,best turn yellow and save your family! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I would think most intruders are after an easy target,and most would run if you even turn the lights on,dogs barking would also see them off.There cannot be many hardened criminals that would continue to force entry should the owner be alerted to their presence. You would have to be well known for your material possestions to attract determined criminals. As for shooting them, I'd rather get my family out the oppisite side they were coming in and let them help themselves,should they get the gun off me i would expect them to shoot me with it!!! In the real world it never ends up with you being the hero in a Jackie Chan movie,best turn yellow and save your family! Good for you at least you have addressed what you would do!! I don't think being a hero was ever in anyone's mind when in a home defense situation. Would your family not be saved if you addressed the threat and handled it. If you were Jackie Chan a firearm would be unneeded, unfortunately most are not schooled Ninjas. We live in different worlds as far as exposure to the more unsavory, and I see this as a recurring theme here.You may see your intruder as a master criminal or professional thief when in reality most break ins are amateurs looking for an easy mark. Professional thieves plan for no interruptions and a clean get away, that means an empty house or office. I know the thieves in my town some are really bad boys some are druggies and none can be reasonable. I would not ever bet on any of them doing the expected and I wouldn't place my hopes on them not being assultive--it's their nature. Rape and physical violence are not crimes of passion (normally) they are acts of violence committed by people with unbalanced brain chemistry. Take your chances on what the threat is and hope it goes away if you can live with that, but do not expect the intruder to be logical or polite, they are committing a crime and know that a jail term awaits their apprehension and will do what they need to do to avoid that end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 its not like in the movies, you aim you shoot and you kill- a shotgun at short range is a very lethal tool. After that you have to live with it maybee in prison cell if you make a bad call! every night you are likely to see the very graphic results of your actions as you close your eyes and it isny going to be pretty. Well the last part I agree with - it wouldn't be pretty. But to say you couldn't shoot someone with a shotgun and not kill them, well I disagree. A round to the lower legs would put a stop to their antics yet leave them with a good chance of survival. I really doubt it would go that far - looking down the barrels of a shotgun is enough to put most people off and reconsider their plan I'd say! Anyone who isn't bothered - well god knows what they'd do to you if they get hold of you because they're certainly not thinking clearly. The talk of prison, well you must have missed my first post where I said I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 As for shooting them, I'd rather get my family out the oppisite side they were coming in and let them help themselves I couldn't agree more, but if you're upstairs in the middle of the night and the only exit is past where you think the intruder is how do you suggest you'd go about it? I've said all along that I wouldn't risk my certificates and freedom over my belongings, they can feel free to take what they want as long as they don't attemp to hurt me or my family. You'd hope that shouting "I've got a shotgun and I don't want any trouble" would solve the situation nine times out of ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 You'd hope that shouting "I've got a shotgun and I don't want any trouble" would solve the situation nine times out of ten. That would be a good note to close on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 That would be a good note to close on. No this is fun...sounds like Rambo Part 9. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 No this is fun...sounds like Rambo Part 9. :lol: Sly would be in a wheelchair before this is ever resolved!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ive always said that if some burglar is in my house as far as im concerned me and my family lives are at risk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 not always enough room to swing a rifle or shotgun about though is there? some of you pussies need to learn to fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) not always enough room to swing a rifle or shotgun about though is there? some of you pussies need to learn to fight If it was only me in the house, Id have at it hand over fist. But my family as well? Not worth the risk. Edited November 4, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumbrian shooter Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) non of us would want to use a gun but if i felt my family were in iminent danger then im getting the gun out if i can get to it, as a warning! But if they come upstairs were the kids are sleeping its a whole different ball game. I would never dream of pulling the trigger while pointing at anything other than a clay or game! But id have to do somthing if the above were to happen! just remember if someone has the bottle to break into a inhabited house then there ready to have and know theres a strong posibility of a confrontation, and. Posisbly and most likely a violent one! Keep that in mind when your reaching for your feather duster and colourful language! Do you see my point, chances are these types of people would sooner sink a sharp blade in you than get caught! so what do you do? Edited November 5, 2012 by cumbrian shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumbrian shooter Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 non of us would want to use a gun but if i felt my family were in iminent danger then im getting the gun out if i can get to it, as a warning! But if they come upstairs were the kids are sleeping its a whole different ball game. I would never dream of pulling the trigger while pointing at anything other than a clay or game! But id have to do somthing if the above were to happen! just remember if someone has the bottle to break into a inhabited house then there ready to have and know theres a strong posibility of a confrontation, and. Posisbly and most likely a violent one! Keep that in mind when your reaching for your feather duster and colourful language! Do you see my point, chances are these types of people would sooner sink a sharp blade in you than get caught! so what do you do? but if they stayed downstairs i would just phone the police and let them deal with it! As i have said NOBODY wants to have to protect themselves in the comfort of there own home! Just down the road from me a 79yr old lady was broken into and beaten up for her pension money very very sad to see even the quietest of places harbour scum bags!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 A lot of aggressive ideas on here. Obviously, the idea of being robbed and threatened wouild make anyone angry, but some of the comments would indicate premeditation in a court. Most thieves want only one thing - lots of money, with no hassle! If there doesnt seem to be much of value, they won't come up the stairs after a wide-awake family. When they know the police have been called, if they have an exit, most will leg it. The recent incident with the young couple who shot the intruders halfway up the stairs was different, they had been told the couple had a cannabis farm in the house and over 100 grand in cash in the house, so they didn't think the police would be called, the higher reward made them more willing to take risks - to their cost, I am glad to say. A decent alarm with a panic button and an internal siren will put most scumbags off, a good sized noisy dog is almost as good. As for "some of you pussies need to learn to fight" - no disrespect GRAM71, but you are either extremely proficient in combat, or over-confident, even the best fighter can be beaten by a lucky punch or a knife to the ribs. I have been in many fights over the years as part of my job, and yes I was taught to fight, by the Home Office, up to and including hand-to-hand and riot control - and no I am not a Police Officer. One of the first things they teach is: don't get into a fight unless 1. -You have no other option, or 2. -You are absolutely confident you will win. Remember, if you opt to fight first and lose, your family is defenceless. Proportionate response - if they stay downstairs, get your family in one room and block the door, they won't waste time trying to kick it in if they are sure the police are on the way, especially if an alarm is screaming away all the time. If they try to, anything is a weapon, but first they have to get through the door. The thing about using weapons is that unless you are really good with them in combat situations, there is the chance they will be taken off you and used on you. The thing about heroin is that it is a painkiller, you have to really damage someone before they feel the pain, another advantage they may have over you. Obviously, if all these fail and you are face to face with the intruder, you do as much damage as you can to survive, and yes - this is why no charges were made against this couple using the shotgun. Unfortunately, most of us have the gun cabinet on the ground floor and sleep on the first floor, so it isn't often an option. The other thing is, we can't all fight well, even if we know how to. A fair number of the posters on here may be like me, disabled and physically unable to rough and tumble like we used to, so even if the spirit is willing, the flesh can't match up to a young, fit, strong, aggressive burglar, tooled up and ready to harm. Make no mistake, I will fight, but only if I absolutely have to, property is just stuff, it can't bring me and my family back to life, that is why I pay insurance. Just my opinion, is all - not picking a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Generally, I think that the post above is very sensible. Some people have expressed some pretty stupid views in this thread. The problem is, as I see it, that not all thieves are going to run if they find that people are at home. A burglar alarm may not put them off at all, it might just get them hyped up, especially if they're high on something. They may not run even if they believe that the police are on their way, they may well know, from experience, that the chances of the police arriving quickly are very low (and non existent if it's a rural location). And even if they aren't 'on' something, they may still launch a deadly attack for no apparent reason. I know someone who, when disturbed in the act, drove a van at the owners repeatedly, and it took a number of rounds from a shotgun, fired time and time again at the van, to stop the attack - he was just very cool, possibly annoyed that the owners of the goods he was stealing had interfered with his 'work' - who knows? My view is that, if a very real danger threatens, we must be prepared to stand and fight, with whatever means we have at hand, and worry about the consequences later - and there will be consequences, because many police officers seem to strongly resent anyone who does the job that they would do if only they were there - and that if we are prepared to act in self defence we need to do so in a positive way. Never pick up a weapon or load a gun unless you're prepared to actually use it, and never hesitate and let a violent criminal get close enough to take it from you. Talk of firing a shotgun into the ceiling as a warning shot is just plain daft. I'm glad you mentioned the Ferrie family - the police kept them locked in cells for 3 days before the CPS intervened and released them. And in the case I mentioned above, 2 victims were held in police cells for 24 hours before being released on bail, and they are still on bail, over 2 months later, with no clear end in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) Generally, I think that the post above is very sensible. Some people have expressed some pretty stupid views in this thread. The problem is, as I see it, that not all thieves are going to run if they find that people are at home. A burglar alarm may not put them off at all, it might just get them hyped up, especially if they're high on something. They may not run even if they believe that the police are on their way, they may well know, from experience, that the chances of the police arriving quickly are very low (and non existent if it's a rural location). And even if they aren't 'on' something, they may still launch a deadly attack for no apparent reason. I know someone who, when disturbed in the act, drove a van at the owners repeatedly, and it took a number of rounds from a shotgun, fired time and time again at the van, to stop the attack - he was just very cool, possibly annoyed that the owners of the goods he was stealing had interfered with his 'work' - who knows? My view is that, if a very real danger threatens, we must be prepared to stand and fight, with whatever means we have at hand, and worry about the consequences later - and there will be consequences, because many police officers seem to strongly resent anyone who does the job that they would do if only they were there - and that if we are prepared to act in self defence we need to do so in a positive way. Never pick up a weapon or load a gun unless you're prepared to actually use it, and never hesitate and let a violent criminal get close enough to take it from you. Talk of firing a shotgun into the ceiling as a warning shot is just plain daft. I'm glad you mentioned the Ferrie family - the police kept them locked in cells for 3 days before the CPS intervened and released them. And in the case I mentioned above, 2 victims were held in police cells for 24 hours before being released on bail, and they are still on bail, over 2 months later, with no clear end in sight. I agree with you completely, there are two sides to every coin, sorry if it did not come across that way, but it did seem that the thread was veering into 'the only real defence is attack' territory- there are often other options. The Ferries were investigated and rightly so, but I also don't see the need to keep them in the cells for that long, but that is another topic, separate from this. But considering the number of burglaries across the country, these are the exceptions. Only if you have no other choice, fight to win and fight to survive- whatever it takes! Edited November 5, 2012 by Bloke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 hi Bloke, no offence taken, my comment was strictly "tongue in cheek". sorry if that wasn't apparent. atb, gram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 hi Bloke, no offence taken, my comment was strictly "tongue in cheek". sorry if that wasn't apparent. atb, gram. No probs, take care... :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fse10 Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 So many people misunderstanding the law. You don't decide not to use a shotgun because you worry about your licence, if you use lethal force of any kind it's because you are in genuine fear for your own life or that of other residents, losing your gun licence doesn't even come into the equation - the situation has to be way past that. I reckon the safest thing to keep "under the bed" is a couple of door wedges. Get your family into a room ( preferably with a fire escape window), phone the police, wedge the door and wait. If the criminals start breaking the door down then it's time to defend yourself with any means at hand. If you can't get together into a room then the top of stairs position must be next choice, in my ( unqualified ) opinion the stairs then become the rubicon and I'm thinking multiple shouted warnings, preferably whilst still on the phone to the police, not an ambush. Get this wrong and you could be spending time in prison while the criminals ( or their friends / family ) and your family are outside - that's a real issue and macho bull won't help them. If you believe any of this is likely to happen you really need a Dobermann, you'll sleep much better. yep have one & i do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 just deal with it when it happens kids. Dont have nightmares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunnykiller Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 If you have time to get out of bed, fetch the keys, open the safe and then load the gun before challenging the burglars and they are still there waiting I would be surprised. Much easier to dial 999 and tell plod there is someone in your house and they will come round quick as a flash, plod love those calls as they are as rare as rocking horse **** and will result in half the station turning out. When you put the phone down I would turn on the lights and make some noise, then worry about something close to hand like a cricket bat or whatever. I wouldn't recommend challenging the burglars as you don't know who they are, what they have, how many there are, what they have taken, etc etc etc, just look after wifey,and the kids, no need to get killed with your own kitchen knife Or have your gun taken from you when you find you can't pull the trigger or didn't see his mate behind u. If however u happened to be cleaning your trusty pump action at 3am after a late night shoot, well as the judge Said, its there problem and the Chance they take.... Defo agree with this one, Look after your wife and kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) personally not sure its a good idea to post that you would shoot burglars imagine if you did the headlines could read "self defence shot gun killer posted grim warning of threats to kill two days before blood bath" dont you just love the sun Edited December 27, 2012 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvid wings Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 It stings like hell, backs of legs and backside. You think your gona die, lol but you dont go back again. i did with a box of matches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 personally not sure its a good idea to post that you would shoot burglars imagine if you did the headlines could read "self defence shot gun killer posted grim warning of threats to kill two days before blood bath" dont you just love the sun Well not really. There is nothing wrong with saying that if you ended up in a situation where you had no other option but to use a shotgun to defend yourself legally you would. What could be a problem would be saying that you would use a shotgun in a situation where it may not be the only option for self defense - i.e where it may be murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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