David BASC Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Lads, Lets not argue amiong each other...having said that, not wishing to argue against you Jonathan, but a couple of points if I may. Firstly, one of the big problems we come up against is that many police authorities do not follow the HO guidance or if they do they cherry pick the bits they like and ignore the rest!! After all its guidance only as they are quick to tell us! Secondly, although I agree 100% with the bits in red straight out of the text book as it were, and the exact guidance that we bash the police with (metaphorically) the next bit reads ' though it is open to them to do so'. So maybe the doc did offer an view and maybe thats what swayed the decision but we dont know and we should not get distracted hypothesising, the OP has an appointment with the doc, and all will be revealed then. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 David - fair point. That said, the poster cited the exact guidance, but conveniently missed off the most salient point - though it is open to them to do so'. This does rather cut across this little gem:- A doctor would never notify the police in that manner as it would be a very serious breach of doctor-patient confidentiallity. They could be struck off for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpentermark Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Ill be asking the doc how i go about coming off the pill m8ty,im led to believe it has to be done in stages? as for my spine,yes it hurts but doesnt effect my shooting,just sore as hell the next day lol,but heh ho thats life I read somewhere that you had to be 10 years free of anti depressants before applying, might be wrong but deffo said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry69koi Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Have you actually had a letter delivered by your FEO stating you have been refused a SGC, or have they just told you that they will refuse it,if they have just told you,it is a polite way of saying not just now,and this won't go down as a refusal on your record. Got a letter here m8ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Got a letter here m8ty Get Basc involved if you are a member,they will find out your options,and if the police are open to you reapplying at a later stage,good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hi I've been on "pills" on and off for a decade or so due to an undiagnosed medical condition which lead to anxiety, Last year I decided I'd like to get back into shooting (shot air rifles as a lad) and decided to go for my FAC. I knew these pills could be a stumbling block so the first thing I did was go and see my GP and ask whether theres any medical reason I would be declined ownership of firearms, she said that as part of the medical assessments I'd shown no intent of aggression or harm (to self or others) and thus sees no medical reason why I shouldnt be granted permission to own firearms. She even added more detail to my medical records to show that the "pills" I was taking were for health anxiety and not because of depressive or likewise tendencies. Did you fill in any questionnaires and at any point record on these that you had thoughts of self harm etc... if so then that would be the stopper for an SGC. If you didnt have a full and proper assessment then you shouldn't have been on the "pills" in the first place! Being on "pills" alone is no reason to decline an SGC. I was indeed granted my FAC, but it could have been different if the medical side hadnt been sorted and checked first. I hope you get your SGC sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Already on the case, I have given the heads up to our head of firearms and two senior firearms officers. No you do not have to be off antidepressants for 10 years, to get a ticket; I speak from personal experience David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry69koi Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hi I've been on "pills" on and off for a decade or so due to an undiagnosed medical condition which lead to anxiety, Last year I decided I'd like to get back into shooting (shot air rifles as a lad) and decided to go for my FAC. I knew these pills could be a stumbling block so the first thing I did was go and see my GP and ask whether theres any medical reason I would be declined ownership of firearms, she said that as part of the medical assessments I'd shown no intent of aggression or harm (to self or others) and thus sees no medical reason why I shouldnt be granted permission to own firearms. She even added more detail to my medical records to show that the "pills" I was taking were for health anxiety and not because of depressive or likewise tendencies. Did you fill in any questionnaires and at any point record on these that you had thoughts of self harm etc... if so then that would be the stopper for an SGC. If you didnt have a full and proper assessment then you shouldn't have been on the "pills" in the first place! Being on "pills" alone is no reason to decline an SGC. I was indeed granted my FAC, but it could have been different if the medical side hadnt been sorted and checked first. I hope you get your SGC sorted. Never filled and questionaires m8ty ,never in my life have i self harmed or harmed anyone else for that matter B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 The back pain, with the tablet to get out of bed bit - is it rendering you to be unfit for work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry69koi Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 At the moment yes m8,but one day i want to earn a living again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Already on the case, I have given the heads up to our head of firearms and two senior firearms officers. No you do not have to be off antidepressants for 10 years, to get a ticket; I speak from personal experience David Nice one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 They won't say that and the police are not allowed to ask the GP to express an opinion. J. Well you should know from my sons application that's not the case, his Gp said "I feel that it would not be safe to grant XXXXX a certificate at this moment in time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry69koi Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Well you should know from my sons application that's not the case, his Gp said "I feel that it would not be safe to grant XXXXX a certificate at this moment in time" Whats your son done about his licence m8ty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul T Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Harry - Can I ask what 'pill' you have been taking? I'm on 40mg of amitriptylene, which is classed as an anti-depressant. I take it to help with my back pain (along with others...) and when I applied for my SGC I specifically addressed the anti-dep fact with the Doc. He said 'No worries, I'll endorse your application.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry69koi Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Harry - Can I ask what 'pill' you have been taking? I'm on 40mg of amitriptylene, which is classed as an anti-depressant. I take it to help with my back pain (along with others...) and when I applied for my SGC I specifically addressed the anti-dep fact with the Doc. He said 'No worries, I'll endorse your application.' I take one 20mg fluoxetine per day m8ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 I take one 20mg fluoxetine per day m8ty This may add some clarity http://www.nhs.uk/medicine-guides/pages/MedicineOverview.aspx?condition=Depression&medicine=fluoxetine "In the early stages of taking Fluoxetine hydrochloride, suicidal thoughts and behaviour may be seen in some people. These people have an increased risk of self-harm or suicide in the early stages of taking Fluoxetine hydrochloride. As Fluoxetine hydrochloride starts to work these risks decrease." As suggested GP and BASC. Are the best people to speak to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) weirdly thats quite common with anti depressants. I'd say your answers lay with your GP. Edited April 1, 2013 by thepasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 I took that one, had to stop after 8 weeks, the side effects of nausea were phenomenal for me. You are spot on about the suicide issue, the FDA say all anti depressants should carry the suicide waning (I think), but its typically aimed at u25;s where statistically there is an increased risk of suicide on anti depressants. Oddly, fluoxetine has been shown to reduce thoughts of suicide in adults. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Whats your son done about his licence m8ty? ****** all, this was 2 1/2 years ago, still can't get anyone to do anything about it. Doctor is a complete **** (he's even a clay shooter!), only time he'd ever seen my son was for 5mins about 10yrs ago for an ingrowing toenail. My son has Aspergers a milder form of Autism, certainly doesn't make him dangerous or even anti-social, once he gets to know people he is a charming and funny young man (22), just takes him a while to get there. Durham allowed him to withdraw his application so no refusal and he can still shoot, 7yrs shooting clays, 3yrs shooting small and full bore rifle (including 50cal, handgun, semi and full auto is the US!), member of 4 clubs, passed all the usual probationary stuff and has his NRA safe shooters card, just can't get a license with the doctors letter on file. We're getting a small amount of help off the NHS Trust (after a formal complaint and almost 4 years of getting nothing) and they are supposed to be specifically looking at him shooting so hopefully at some stage we may get a better letter from a better doctor and apply again. Not holding my breath to be honest. Edited April 1, 2013 by phaedra1106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry69koi Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hope he gets there in the end m8ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBLATCH Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 ****** all, this was 2 1/2 years ago, still can't get anyone to do anything about it. Doctor is a complete **** (he's even a clay shooter!), only time he'd ever seen my son was for 5mins about 10yrs ago for an ingrowing toenail. My son has Aspergers a milder form of Autism, certainly doesn't make him dangerous or even anti-social, once he gets to know people he is a charming and funny young man (22), just takes him a while to get there. Durham allowed him to withdraw his application so no refusal and he can still shoot, 7yrs shooting clays, 3yrs shooting small and full bore rifle (including 50cal, handgun, semi and full auto is the US!), member of 4 clubs, passed all the usual probationary stuff and has his NRA safe shooters card, just can't get a license with the doctors letter on file. We're getting a small amount of help off the NHS Trust (after a formal complaint and almost 4 years of getting nothing) and they are supposed to be specifically looking at him shooting so hopefully at some stage we may get a better letter from a better doctor and apply again. Not holding my breath to be honest. would love to see your son be succesfull and get on in life doing what he loves best, i think durham are a little panicky at the moment for obvious reasons,,, best of luck fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 This is getting too complicated and involved for here. The BASC is apparently on the case, they will want ALL the facts and information and are probably the best way forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highbird70 Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Completely agree, its a delicate matter and it is an open forum, it is a really good discussion with lots of support, but at this point I would leave it to be discussed in a more private form, but please let us know if any further news This is getting too complicated and involved for here. The BASC is apparently on the case, they will want ALL the facts and information and are probably the best way forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoQuad Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) everything has been said I guess except perhaps that Prozac (which is what this is) is taken by many many thousands of people in every walk of life, occupation and profession. These people most certainly do not automatically pose any risk to self or others. Taking an SSRI antidepressant is not of itself any good reason to refuse a SGC. Clearly the OP needs to meet with GP and check A) if she was actually asked for a medical report and if so B] what she said in that report. Most but not necessarily all GP's would be very cautious about expressing a view rather than straightforward facts. Depending on what the position is after that meeting with GP BASC may well be in a position to offer very real help. I wish you the best of luck with this Harry69koi Edited April 1, 2013 by SakoQuad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 I doubt very much they will agree to a meeting as the only person who can overturn a refusal is a judge ( crown court?) and to meet you and change decision would be an admission of failure on behalf if the CC/FLO..... I think that they would agree to a meeting. Not doing so and then having something come up at court that hadn't been clarified because they had refused to speak to you wold not look good. Courts don't like having their time wasted. Also, from the police's point of view it means that they have an opportunity to reverse their decision in the event that new facts become available or existing ones are clarified. Have a good read if the reasons to refuse an SGC they are very limited, iirc you must present a danger to the public or peace not to be granted an SGC "[F1(1)Subject to subsection (1A) below, a shot gun certificate shall be granted or, as the case may be, renewed by the chief officer of police if he is satisfied that the applicant can be permitted to possess a shot gun without danger to the public safety or to the peace." They can also refuse if they are satisfied that you do not have good reason to have a shotgun. Although that Act limits ther scope of that quite severely. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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