Bleeh Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) There was a fellow on this forum asking for help pigeon shooting, so I offered him a day out on the peas to show him the ropes. He exchanged a few messages and other than his pushiness to for me to take him mate along too, he seemed like a nice enough chap. We met once at his permission, and like I said, he seemed alright.So we went out, he was a nice chap and we got on fine. We spent the day popping at a few pigeons and then he farmer came up for a chat, I proceeded to introduce everyone and right out of nowhere the fellow I'd taken out pulled out some sodding business cards out of his car and helped myself to my permission, while at the same time asking me if this was alright (I didn't say much, but I can hardly tell the farmer what he can or can't do with his land, can I?).Maybe he misjudged the situation, but I felt really hurt that after my continued generosity with my time, equipment, and other offers to take him out to do various other forms of shooting over the year, he still felt the need to help himself to more.What would you of done in this situation? Edited July 28, 2013 by Bleeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Let it go at the time and had a quiet word with the farmer later (firstly apologizing to him for being in that situation in the first place). Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 I'm not surprised you don't feel too happy about it! It would be the last invite he got from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 name and shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted July 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 name and shame I'm not going to do that because 1.) The thread will get pulled, 2.) I'm hoping he'll see this thread and reevaluate the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul taylor Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Seriously unhappy and I'd tell him to his face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 its happened before to members, and will happen again, and they wonder why they get knock backs from us when they put up "permission wanted" posts me personally, I'd chat with the farmer, apologise and learn a lesson from it and also name and shame, unless the person in question wants to put up an apology, it's not the done thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerSim Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 name and shame +1, as a shooter, and..... +1 as a farmer too. Gets very boring, this "stealing" permission. Not entirely sure they are the right type to be trusted, and not just with guns, either. I have cleared, I.E. revoked the permission, of "people" like this - your farmer will probably feel the same way. Have a word with him/her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pigeon man Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Now that's why am picky who I take out with me !!! If any one did that with one of my farmers he be told where to go by the farmer !!! Happening abit more often and am starting to think about stopping taking me people out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 When you say Business cards! Was this not somethibg like IT services etc and NOTHING to do with gaining permission, simply trying to gain a little business? I think YOU introducing the group would normally be the way forward! Followed by a brief hand shake from the visitors! If the card was handed over and a blatent grab was made for permission then THAT is bang out of order. Hell last month I was OFFERED permission from a chap who owned a bit of land I was shooting on as a Guest! I politely REFUSED. Name and shame? Maybe not! But I would not be offering him help again Don't bite the hand that feeds n all that :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 The bloke is a prize plonked and hopefully does give his side of things so everyone knows who to avoid. I've been with people shooting when the landowner has suggested both of us coming back but it's not something I would consider without going through the person who invited me first. Guess you have to accept there are some desperate people out there that will go to these lengths because they lack the ability to find their own ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty7247 Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 I think its wrong people are effectively poaching permissions, especially when perrmissions are increasingly difficult to get, any offer for a day out should be honoured, not seen as an opportunity to try and encroach someones hard earned permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actionman1 Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 No need to name and shame as i am the guy in question. I feel compelled to make a defence for myself on this forum at this point, but will be speaking to Bleeh in person as soon as. What started out as a plee for help turned into what i thought was a promising future friendship. We did exchange many emails and eventually i invited Bleeh to one of my permissions to have an evening Rabbit, and maybe Deer or Fox shooting. The time spent was very pleasant, i introduce a couple of shooting buddies who liked Bleeh and resulted in me offering shooting at any of my permissons anytime, also Bleeh made the offer to take us out on his permission which was very kind. Several months later the day arrived for me to go over to Bleehs permission for a few hrs shooting over peas, once again a very enjoyable few hrs. Bleeh pointed out to me the farmer who was driving back and forth most of the time we were shooting, then as we packed away and headed back to the road the farmer drove up and had a chat with us. He had rope bangers in his hand and i guess thats what he had been doing when we saw him drive around. I thanked him for letting me accompany Bleeh and he also said thanks to me, in the conversation he said Bleeh was the only person who shot his land, and he was surprised that i would drive an hour to come and shoot. He said first to me" come any time" as he was putting in the rape on a field he pointed out. Now this felt awkward so what i did was get a card out with my phone number on, which i give out sometimes as it shows who i am and that i am insured and not a fly by night sort of chap. Now here is the important bit, I could see that he was putting up bangers so must have a few problems with the pigeons, i thought the farmer was a nice old chap so i said in front of Bleeh, "this is how you can contact me , if Bleeh was on holiday ( and i know he is away in Sept) and he was getting hammered i would come over and help out for a bit, as long as Bleeh does not mind" this was a spur of the moment thing, i am not in the habit of going out to steal someones permission, and i judged my action as helping Bleeh in keeping his permission as i know only too well that to keep a permission you have got to do a job for a farmer or the next person to ask him will get the job. After the farmer left we popped to a local pub to have a chat and a well earned drink. Whilst chatting to bleeh i asked him if he was happy at what i had said to the farmer and that i was not going to be calling him and bugging him to shoot his land, as i was not going to try and steal a permission from who is a nice guy and very kind to offer Pigeon shooting tips to a new shooter ( on pigeons) but i though the offer i made to the farmer could only help Bleeh, and that the farmer would think he had the reassurance of help from a mate of bleehs if he ever needed it. Whilst chatting at the pub bleeh said that he was fine with things and viewed it as a positive point. and that is where we left it. After a couple of months chatting by email i mentioned that i was on holiday next week, and asked if he had any days off or evenings he could get out and shoot as i fancied a trip over again. But this is where i think Bleeh is getting the wrong end of the stick, i asked if he would forward me the farmers contact details so i could get him some paperwork to sign. this would include permission to shoot form to send to the police, i am a stickler for keeping things right as far as having paperwork to show should i need to as verbal agreements do not cut it in law, and as an open certificate holder for firearms i have to show that i do thing right. I think bleeh has viewed this as an attempt to steal his shooting, which is not the case. I hope to resolve the situation with bleeh, i may have pushed the friendship too fast, but i am a laid back kind of guy and love meeting new people and enriching my shooting experience. But i make this offer to Bleeh, if he is not happy with how things are going between us, i will state here and now that if he is not happy with me i will not go anywhere near his permission and will not contact his farmer to go over and shoot. I have plenty of shooting my way and will never try to steal anyones permission. But i do hope a phone call with bleeh can reassure him of my intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveyg Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 As a newbie to the sport its very difficult to get a perm however no one should be dishonest or abuse the trust from pw members to try and gain a permission. I have been fortunate enough to be offered days out and really apprecate the opportunity. I would let him know how you feel however it seems it may fall on deaf ears A small minority as always causes grief for the majority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Sometime people have no imputus to gain there own permission and just leach off others kindness getting there foot in the door. I don't turn down permission but am warey of treading on fellow shooters toes, it's not the done thing ! Or is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Having just read the posts all I can say is that I hope the people involved manage to sort out their differences over a pint. All too often things can get a bit misunderstood and life is too short....... Thanks to all for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 After a couple of months chatting by email i mentioned that i was on holiday next week, and asked if he had any days off or evenings he could get out and shoot as i fancied a trip over again. But this is where i think Bleeh is getting the wrong end of the stick, i asked if he would forward me the farmers contact details so i could get him some paperwork to sign. this would include permission to shoot form to send to the police, i am a stickler for keeping things right as far as having paperwork to show should i need to as verbal agreements do not cut it in law, and as an open certificate holder for firearms i have to show that i do thing right. I think bleeh has viewed this as an attempt to steal his shooting, which is not the case. This was the grave mistake you made and I have to say that, in the same situation, I would feel a little peeved to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Hopefully you guys can sort it out with a chat - sounds like a misunderstanding, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 snap have a chat and sort it out life is too short if that is the extent of the miss understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danddo Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Having read the explanation I'm sure this can be sorted out between the two of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerbob Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Call me old fashioned but why would you need to give the farmer of another members permission your contact details ? you are a guest of Bleeh, I see no valid reason, just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actionman1 Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) If i get stopped by the Police when in transit with my Guns , i have to show written Permission to shoot, i understand that this land is a verbal permission. I do not like leaving things in a grey area. Unless i am wrong where the Law is concerned Edited July 29, 2013 by actionman1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 having read the explanation, I would say its just getting wires crossed, being an open ticket holder too, I can see his point, but in that circumstance, I would have left asking for names etc until at least a year or two had past, rather than weeks/months perhaps you could give bleeh the contact details of your permissions first, showing that it will go both ways, as good shooting buddies are hard to come by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Mother Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Call me old fashioned but why would you need to give the farmer of another members permission your contact details ? you are a guest of Bleeh, I see no valid reason, just my opinion. re-read his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 If i get stopped by the Police when in transit with my Guns , i have to show written Permission to shoot, i understand that this land is a verbal permission. I do not like leaving things in a grey area. Unless i am wrong where the Law is concerned My interpretation on the law of the land is very different from yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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