Badger cull: do you sympathise with the saboteurs

[norfolk dumpling]

There are a lot of wildlife groups including our friends (!!) RSPB who are quietly watching this exercise knowing how old Brock does gobble up hedgehogs, sloworms, frogs, all manner of ground nesting birds eggs etc etc.

 

The old sod has no natural enemies and too much protection - until now........

[al4x]

 

Government needs to grow a pair and do what needs to be done, instead of trying to always do what they think makes them popular.

 

Figgy

To be fair they have stood by this trial in the face of a lot of protest, the problem will be if the protesters manage to screw up the results, its fact it works if you can cull hard enough and that is the main problem.

[wymberley]

A brief precis of the situation can be found by Googling, 'badger carcass survey' and going for the, www.badger.org.uk - 'The randomised Badger culling Trial' option. From my experience (I was one of the 2 field ecologists at any one time who found, bagged and tagged and delivered the carcasses to the vet' lab's) that the %age figure given (approx 1 in 7) for the number of badgers that have or carry TB is correct.

 

My experience also tells me to make no further comment regarding this animal on this forum.

[Scully]

I have a modicum of sympathy for the Badgers,but none whatsoever for the sab's.

[dave1979]

I bet the sabs are all driving round in their very own badger cullers.....they don't know their **** from their elbow most of them...

[Reece]

No sympathy for the saboteurs whatsoever. Most of what they do is illegal and some of them have threatened violence.

 

Let the cull take place and use that to decide if it is effective or not. The trial antis always cite had over half its traps interfered with by animal rights activists, so of course that cull was not going to work. Until we have trial cull completely free of interference from animal rights activists, we will not be 100% sure if culling would work or not.

[Asa Bear]

The government should offer to cancel the cull if the sabs are prepared to cover the compensation paid to farmers whose herds are affected by TB.

[Pole Star]

you aint been in our work canteen mate give me tb anyday

 

The slide show we had at Spar sholt collage was a real eye opener & the pics of huge balls of puss inside the cattle was revolting it was a long time ago now & I don't remember all the details of the effects but I know for sure that these protesters do not have a clue of what it is about , before the days of vaccination in humans TB was a major killer ( some one correct me if I am wrong ? ) & I do think if these goons should be shown the pics we saw & then perhaps they might think again its not like chicken pox & you don't get over it & they the Sabs can get TB too ! .

 

ps time for a BBC film on the effects of TB on humans & cattle that dose not show cuddly tame badgers playing at night

 

pps I understand it is still common in the middle east & I do remember that some immigrants admitted at a hospital were my Mother & sister were nursing where carrying TB when they entered the UK back in the 1970s .

Pole Star

Edited August 28, 2013 by Pole Star

[Imperfection]

I have no sympathy for the saboteurs.The cull has been sanctioned by the government so therefore legal. You cant go through life picking and choosing which laws to comply with and which to ignore.

[timmytree]

I support the cull in principle but I don't understand the methods to be used.

This is supposed to be a trial correct? I can't see anything valid in a few blokes going out and shooting whatever badgers they can, what percentage of a sett will they kill? I think the whole scheme will turn out to be a fiasco that will prove nothing but upset a lot of people.

If the cull has to be done then surely gassing or poisoning to cull100% should be the aim, along with all deer and any other creatures capable of carrying or hosting TB, the whole area should be locked down for a period, no animal movements whatsoever to ascertain that no other contact is possible. Only then will anyone be able to prove that it is the badgers causing the problem.

I know farmers who have been conducting their own cull for years and presenting the carcases as road deaths. They haven't managed to clear an area so how will anyone else do it?

TB is a horrible disease and can be a killer, my dad had it when I was a nipper, he was in hospital for nearly a year and I wasn't allowed to see him. That's awful and I wouldn't wish that on anyone but the facts on human TB are simple, we nearly eradicated it. Now it's back in a more virulent form bought into this country by immigrants from Africa and the East mainly.

If we can immunize humans then surely we can do the same with cattle?

Or maybe we should cull the human carriers instead, I'm sure the badgers wouldn't complain.

I feel desperately sorry for any farmer losing stock in such an awful way but I'm afraid the cull will be a let down.

[Pole Star]

Let the cull go ahead & see ? .

[four-wheel-drive]

I support the cull in principle but I don't understand the methods to be used.

This is supposed to be a trial correct? I can't see anything valid in a few blokes going out and shooting whatever badgers they can, what percentage of a sett will they kill? I think the whole scheme will turn out to be a fiasco that will prove nothing but upset a lot of people.

If the cull has to be done then surely gassing or poisoning to cull100% should be the aim, along with all deer and any other creatures capable of carrying or hosting TB, the whole area should be locked down for a period, no animal movements whatsoever to ascertain that no other contact is possible. Only then will anyone be able to prove that it is the badgers causing the problem.

I know farmers who have been conducting their own cull for years and presenting the carcases as road deaths. They haven't managed to clear an area so how will anyone else do it?

TB is a horrible disease and can be a killer, my dad had it when I was a nipper, he was in hospital for nearly a year and I wasn't allowed to see him. That's awful and I wouldn't wish that on anyone but the facts on human TB are simple, we nearly eradicated it. Now it's back in a more virulent form bought into this country by immigrants from Africa and the East mainly.

If we can immunize humans then surely we can do the same with cattle?

Or maybe we should cull the human carriers instead, I'm sure the badgers wouldn't complain.

I feel desperately sorry for any farmer losing stock in such an awful way but I'm afraid the cull will be a let down.

You have got it spot on.

Edited August 28, 2013 by four-wheel-drive

[Fisherman Mike]

Rather an emotive and subjective debate this one...personally I can only speak from first hand experience of the areas here in Gloucestershire and Wiltshire where I shoot and of my experiences with wholesale badger gassing programmes for MAFF at Aston Down in the 80, and 90's.

 

despite eradicating badgers from Dairy Farms in the region. Badger Culling just did not work. Once the regions badgers were depleted other Badgers moved in to replace them. There was no Scientific evidence ( from independent research bodies ) either way to suggest that Bovine TB was better or worse after the Cull. The numbers of infected Cattle remained pretty much constant.

 

Most of the Dairy farms I have experience of in this respect have been discreetly controlling local badger populations for 40 years or more..

 

In order for the Cull to be effective we would have to essentially eradicate the species from our shores... and that considering the number of suburban badgers these days would be nigh on impossible.

 

The Cull is futile in my opinion and surely as the most intelligent species on earth we can find a better way of developing a cattle inoculation programme rather than needlessly destroying hundreds of thousands of the less intelligent species. ?

 

I think we will still be having these types of debate in 40 years time...

 

Now if you said to the British Government and Defra...we have to develop a cheap effective cattle inoculation programme in GB in order to safeguard our and Americas oil supplies in Syria... we would have a solution within weeks...

 

I don't like the Antis, I don't particularly like Brian May ( apart from his music ) and I have a great deal of sympathy for Dairy Farmers but I don't want to see Killing for Killing sake and this is what it appears to be.

 

In some areas I know the cullers are baiting the badgers away from the sets into open fields with kilo after kilo of peanuts...this cant be right.

 

In conclusion it wont work and 25 years from now, probably less, badger numbers will have recovered and possibly even multiplied and TB cases will have remained the same.

[Pole Star]

But Mike why are the findings in Ireland showing that their cull is working in reducing the TB levels there

[camokid]

if it has to be done then that's it get on with it...

 

i don't or will never agree with sabs there just like football hooligans there not really interested in the cause its the drama violents and atmosphere that they thrive on...

 

years back just around the corner from me a woman lay in the road to stop a lorry full of veal the driver did not see her and went over her...

 

THAT WAS WORTH IT!!! NOT

[al4x]

So fisherman mike what had changed to make the tb rates go up quite so dramatically since badgers were protected. Other than of course badgers are in far greater numbers and not culled in a reactionary way, and how come we are the only country with this problem in Europe when the rest cull when needed

[Fisherman Mike]

But Mike why are the findings in Ireland showing that their cull is working in reducing the TB levels there

I have no experience of it in NI and to be honest I just don't know...I also don't know if the findings are correct.. I have my doubts...just tell Caesar want Caesar wants to hear so to speak.

 

and what about the millions of other native fauna that can also harbour the bacteria

 

If the cull works then good...but based on my own experiences of two major gassing programmes it wont.

[Fisherman Mike]

So fisherman mike what had changed to make the tb rates go up quite so dramatically since badgers were protected. Other than of course badgers are in far greater numbers and not culled in a reactionary way, and how come we are the only country with this problem in Europe when the rest cull when needed

 

TB rates in badgers or in cattle ?? Now there's a tale.

 

Only a few years ago even DEFRA Scientists concluded that cattle to cattle transmissions of the bacteria was more significant.

[al4x]

TB rates in badgers or in cattle ?? Now there's a tale.

 

Only a few years ago even DEFRA Scientists concluded that cattle to cattle transmissions of the bacteria was more significant.

 

 

so how do closed herds keep being infected in areas with TB in the badger population?

[Pole Star]

I have no experience of it in NI and to be honest I just don't know...I also don't know if the findings are correct.. I have my doubts...just tell Caesar want Caesar wants to hear so to speak.

 

and what about the millions of other native fauna that can also harbour the bacteria

 

If the cull works then good...but based on my own experiences of two major gassing programmes it wont.

 

So I wonder if a mass vaccination program of cattle & badgers is possible ? or just to expensive or just down right impossible ? .

I don't stalk deer but I do remember from a deer farming course I was on it had got into a deer on one farm & as said one of the deer handlers had got TB from his own heard .

al4x is TB in the wild deer heard yet ? it seems strange that badgers are giving it to cattle but as I am aware wild deer have not got it ?

[al4x]

you get very occasional evidence in wild deer but they don't pass it on to each other in any amount or act as the vector that badgers do. Farmed deer are another matter and I actually did a park cull in Gloucestershire a couple of years back where shortly after they got more and more tb affected deer and in the end culled the lot. I don't know they will bother to re stock unless the badger situation changes as there is no point they will just get re infected

[timmytree]

 

So I wonder if a mass vaccination program of cattle & badgers is possible ? or just to expensive or just down right impossible ? .

I don't stalk deer but I do remember from a deer farming course I was on it had got into a deer on one farm & as said one of the deer handlers had got TB from his own heard .

al4x is TB in the wild deer heard yet ? it seems strange that badgers are giving it to cattle but as I am aware wild deer have not got it ?

 

A simple search on google reveals lots of TB carriers. Besides cattle and badgers the list includes humans, all primates, goats, pigs, cats,dogs, buffalo, bison, possums and deer.

So an ill thought out scheme to kill badgers is pointless unless the whole suspect list is tackled at the same time. I firmly believe that a cull is just a case of doing ANYTHING rather than nothing. Kill the badgers but allow the deer, dogs and feral cats roam at will.

That doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

[thepasty]

It does perplex me how people ignore the fact that in countries where badgers are controlled they dont have the issue we have... what other evidence do you need?

Edited August 28, 2013 by thepasty

[Fisherman Mike]

It does perplex me how people ignore the fact that in countries where badgers are controlled they dont have the issue we have... what other evidence do you need?

No ones ignoring it...im just simply stating that I have no experience or evidence of it working in England and Wales...if you do then by the same token post it up!

 

If the cull works I am all for it but I have serious doubts along with millions of others... who don't happen to be either shooters or dairy farmers.

[what rabbit]

as far as im concerned these saboteurs are just rent a mob

they just tramp across the countryside doing loads of damage and sod any other animal or bird habitat

most of them are just there to say we are helping poor little defenseless creatures with out knowing any thing about the real arguments of either side.

I don't know if this cull will do the trick but as had been said before there's no shortish of badgers & country's that cull don't have the problem