No5 steel shot

[Rimfireboy]

Anybody use this with good results. After knocking a few ducks out of the air to see them hit the ground and run, I decided not to use them for duck flighting any more. I had nearly a box full left, so took them out after squirrels. Thought they'd do the job. First squirrel I shot with the steel 5's ran across a clearing about thirty yards ahead of me. I shot, the squirrel bounded over and then got up and ran again. I hit it again, and again it was knocked sideways, it ran on and made it into some brambles. I really wasn't happy about this so I thought I'd test the impact of these carts on a tin can that I found in the grass. At thirty five yards the pellets barely dented the can but they did penetrate through the can at twenty five yards with some of the pellets still inside. With that I'm not surprised that I haven't had much success with them and I won't be buying any more. I know that pw members have been using steel shot with good results. Could somebody recommend some carts and shot sizes please? The ones I had were express hunting steel. Maybe the shot size 5 is too small in steel, certainly loses a lot of energy past twenty five yards.

[Guest cookoff013]

#2s

 

why oh why are people still using tiny steel shot on game.

 

in 2011 #4 shot was still legal in cpsa competitions.... why would anyone use a clay load on game?

 

use 2s

even at 1400fps it is going to do something.

[casts_by_fly]

5's are a bit small for general duck use. in the US when I used duck specific steel it would be high speep 4's and that was a good load for bigger ducks (mallard) at the ranges I'd shoot (40 yards or less). If you're shooting higher birds, then you want to go bigger. As above, 2's aren't the worst thing so long as they pattern well for you. The 5's would be okay for decoyed duck or closer range pass shooting with smaller birds (I'd be happy to use 3" 5's in my 20 for the occasional teal we get on pheasant drives), but given the choice I'd go bigger.

 

rick

[wymberley]

Because for me the Lyalvale site is a nightmare, just out of interest could you give the MV - however expressed - and the shot physical diameter dimension? Many thanks.

[Guest cookoff013]

dunno what the mm size is.

125 pellets per oz and 3.8mm

 

even at the mediocre speeds of 1400fps it is still going to do somefink.

 

as for the patterning, these slow loads pattern.

[motty]

#2s

 

why oh why are people still using tiny steel shot on game.

 

in 2011 #4 shot was still legal in cpsa competitions.... why would anyone use a clay load on game?

 

use 2s

even at 1400fps it is going to do something.

What exactly is wrong with no.4 steel? It's not my first choice size, but it's more than capable of killing ducks at 40 yards. No.5 should still kill ducks out to 30 yards no problem. This is speaking from practical experience ie going shooting, not looking at what a textbook says.

[Guest cookoff013]

What exactly is wrong with no.4 steel? It's not my first choice size, but it's more than capable of killing ducks at 40 yards. No.5 should still kill ducks out to 30 yards no problem. This is speaking from practical experience ie going shooting, not looking at what a textbook says.

#4 steel is tiny, not really great for duck shooting. sitting on the deeks, thats all its good for. but push it beyond that and its a joke. why limit all shooting to under 30 yards

 

now #4 can kill ducks. but 2s do it better, and cleaner. even at mediocre / identical speeds. - and thats the point. factory speeds are guestimates at best.

[wymberley]

dunno what the mm size is.

125 pellets per oz and 3.8mm

 

even at the mediocre speeds of 1400fps it is still going to do somefink.

 

as for the patterning, these slow loads pattern.

My fault possibly as I was asking the OP about his No 5 shot or is 3.8 No 5 for steel?

[Guest cookoff013]

My fault possibly as I was asking the OP about his No 5 shot or is 3.8 No 5 for steel?

no, thats 2s (sorry for the confusion.)

[Rimfireboy]

My fault possibly as I was asking the OP about his No 5 shot or is 3.8 No 5 for steel?

Sorry Phil, but I don't know the size of the 5 shot, all I can say is that the shot I recovered from the tin can looked smaller than I expected and certainly light in weight. The difference in strike energy from 25 to 35 yards showed to be considerable.

[Guest cookoff013]

Sorry Phil, but I don't know the size of the 5 shot, all I can say is that the shot I recovered from the tin can looked smaller than I expected and certainly light in weight. The difference in strike energy from 25 to 35 yards showed to be considerable.

 

thats the general consensus of domestic steel shells anyway. i think gamebore shells are above average quality. they invested heavily in steel reloading years ago.

[wymberley]

Sorry Phil, but I don't know the size of the 5 shot, all I can say is that the shot I recovered from the tin can looked smaller than I expected and certainly light in weight. The difference in strike energy from 25 to 35 yards showed to be considerable.

 

Sorry Phil, but I don't know the size of the 5 shot, all I can say is that the shot I recovered from the tin can looked smaller than I expected and certainly light in weight. The difference in strike energy from 25 to 35 yards showed to be considerable.

OK, no problem, we'll take a flyer and assume 2.8mm and give it a healthy 1450 ft/sec MV. At the 35 yards you mentioned this would have had the same energy as a run of the mill lead UK 7.5. Not much help as as has been pointed out you can't compare lead with steel or anything else on a pure energy basis but you can if you use their energy density figure which is now accepted as a far superior lethal effectiveness assessment than energy alone. This for the steel is about half of that for the 7.5 lead. All of a sudden it becomes obvious why the squirrel was able to leg it and reflects why cookoff 013 is spot on when he tells us to shoot bigger rocks.

[TIDES EDGE]

Gamebore 4s work for me half choke kills wigeon out to 40yds no problem either 32gm or 36gm

[Guest cookoff013]

 

OK, no problem, we'll take a flyer and assume 2.8mm and give it a healthy 1450 ft/sec MV. At the 35 yards you mentioned this would have had the same energy as a run of the mill lead UK 7.5. Not much help as as has been pointed out you can't compare lead with steel or anything else on a pure energy basis but you can if you use their energy density figure which is now accepted as a far superior lethal effectiveness assessment than energy alone. This for the steel is about half of that for the 7.5 lead. All of a sudden it becomes obvious why the squirrel was able to leg it and reflects why cookoff 013 is spot on when he tells us to shoot bigger rocks.

 

if in this country we could shoot faster shells, i`d say 4s are just siutable. but most loaders really avoid getting close to the speed limit of steel. subsequently they go slow, meaning they have even less energy at 30yards than the theoretical. speeds.

 

at 1400fps #2 are going to do something better than a #4 (or 5) at x distance.

 

also the shotsize classification is off. english steel shotsizes are still one shotsize smaller than american standards. meaning the "go up 2 shotsizes rule" really means go up one. i think gamebore stick to us sizes, when i have bought shot, it has been out of spec.

thats the calc pellets / oz.

 

even with that, 2s are going to be either 2s or 3s ideal for ducks even at the slow loads that are available in this country

[Guest cookoff013]

here is a good resource.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/game_management/media/roster_nontoxic_shot.pdf

 

they've been shooting mandatory steel for alot longer than us.

[wymberley]

here is a good resource.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/game_management/media/roster_nontoxic_shot.pdf

 

they've been shooting mandatory steel for alot longer than us.

Just a point if I may. The lethal area column in the link is not the same as the vulnerable area that we have traditionally used (Burrard) hence the lower figures. Although it won't be found in the report, being outside of the terms of reference, during the work undertaken by the Ballistic Research Laboratory it was realised that shotgun patterns conform to the Theory of Probability. Let's say from the link you decide upon 2 hits as your requirement which you'll need for each and every shot. Should you chose a pattern to deliver that number, it will probably only be obtained on 60% of the shots taken. Taking a pattern to achieve 3 hits on average, you'll probably get the required 2 some 80% of the time. Raising this to 4, then in excess of 90% will be achieved.

[kent]

Forget what worked with lead, get 2s or 3s and give them some velocity. I know a good fowler who gets good enough results in his gamebag with no.5 steel clay loads, he shoots them all very close with very open choke and still wounds far more than he really might for his ability with a gun, You can tell what is happening on his flash as he don't take the dog much and spends half his time running round chasing wounders. It goes "splash, splash, swear, slash, splash bang! Shoots big geese with them as well, its about range really you could kill them with plastic pellets if you got close enough

[aga man]

hull solway 3" 34gms fe 3 or 4 had execellent results with both shot sizes through half choke.

shot ducks,geese and the odd fox with them.

the 5's would be good for decoying pigeons.

[GingerCat]

Is steel really that laughable as to tickle a squig at 30 yards, twice?

 

Only used it on clays so don't know the answer but would have thought the big tailed tree rat would be deader than a dead thing at that range.

 

Read a recent article wherd a chap used size 5 to shoot pigeons at that range with no issues, squigs don't wear body armour these days do they.....

[wildfowler.250]

You really need steel 3's for ducks and at least a 1 for geese. I like the gamebore stuff. Had the lyalvale steel and ended up using it on decoyed crows. Hated it!

[motty]

You really need steel 3's for ducks and at least a 1 for geese. I like the gamebore stuff. Had the lyalvale steel and ended up using it on decoyed crows. Hated it!

No you don't! There's that word 'need' again. I have shot plenty of mallard with no.4 at around 40 yards. They do the job. Using the correct choke also helps. I usually use no.3 or no.2 for higher ducks.

One of the pinks I killed on Sunday was with 2 shot. I know of others who've killed pinks with 3s and 4s. Hitting them in the right place is the key. Hit them up the **** with T shot and they'll fly on.

 

By the way, I don't believe that a squirrel hit squarely at 30 or even 40 yards would survive steel no.5.

[fuzzypigeon]

I use 3" 36g express 3's for ducks and which works for me up to 45 yards with half choke, then I go to gamebore 3.5" 42g 3's for geese under 40 yards, and tungsten matrix 63g 3's for the 40-50 yards geese.

[wymberley]

No you don't! There's that word 'need' again. I have shot plenty of mallard with no.4 at around 40 yards. They do the job. Using the correct choke also helps. I usually use no.3 or no.2 for higher ducks.

One of the pinks I killed on Sunday was with 2 shot. I know of others who've killed pinks with 3s and 4s. Hitting them in the right place is the key. Hit them up the **** with T shot and they'll fly on.

 

By the way, I don't believe that a squirrel hit squarely at 30 or even 40 yards would survive steel no.5.

The one problem we're going to face is who do you believe. Take this quote just as an example. This time we're not all at 6s and 7s but 4s and 5s and also 3s and 4s. motty could well be talking of Hull Cartridge products and be possibly correct but someone else could be thinking English sizes and contradict him. Both could be right in their own mind. Until we have a standard size hymn sheet, when any discussion involving NTS sizes really ought to include the pellets' physical dimension in addition to the nominal size number. Could save a lot of falling out!

[wildfowler.250]

No you don't! There's that word 'need' again. I have shot plenty of mallard with no.4 at around 40 yards. They do the job. Using the correct choke also helps. I usually use no.3 or no.2 for higher ducks.

One of the pinks I killed on Sunday was with 2 shot. I know of others who've killed pinks with 3s and 4s. Hitting them in the right place is the key. Hit them up the **** with T shot and they'll fly on.

 

By the way, I don't believe that a squirrel hit squarely at 30 or even 40 yards would survive steel no.5.

Aye any shot size works if you hit the bird in the right place. I'd rather have some margin for error with a larger shot size than select for say 4's which will have a better pattern/pellet count.

 

Shot plenty geese with smaller shot but at the end of the day, I prefer as large a pellet as I can without losing too much pattern.

[tignme]

In the days of lead for wildfowl i used 28 grams of no six. Yes 28 grams. I now use 32 grams no four in steel (mirage) and shoot similar numbers of duck.

 

pigeon shooting a week past on tues i was using 32 gram no 4 s in steel simply because they were free.

 

I ran out and used 28 gram 7s in trap loads and was killing birds well out to max 45 yds.

 

This weekend im shooting geese using 36 grams no 2s, im also carrying a load of 32 fours in case.

 

Open up a 36 gram no 2 and you will see why im not confident.

 

If everthing goes to plan and the geese drop in as normal at 30 to 40 yds the 32s will do the job. I know because ive literally shot hundreds of them( duck n geese) with 32 no 4s in steel.

 

36 grams no2 mirage magnum steel has 152 approx pcs of shot.

 

32 grams no 4 mirage steel has approx 225 pcs of shot.

 

i know which i prefer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And no im not putting my tin hat on . Get out and try it