marshy pete Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I wouldn't disagree with you, but as a farmer would you rather have your shooters protecting your peas and beans or shooting pigeons that are cleaning up the stubble? The birds will naturally go for easier and safer pickings. The terms of the GL are quite plain, even though the bird is on the pest list it has some protection by law, part of that is alternative methods of crop protection should have been considered or tried first. Any lawyer could run rings around us decoying and shooting over stubble particularly in areas where there are no other crops. Pigeons may be increasing at the moment, I hope they will always be around in enough numbers to provide us with opportunities for shooting but maybe the threat to our sport won't come from lack of birds but more directly as a result of the attitude of some shooters? I would rather use a combined approach, shooting em once they're feeding on the peas is firefighting in many ways but essential as gas guns and scarecrows are fairly limited (in my experience anyway), if we can keep numbers to sensible levels by culling throughout the year and then keep away from standing crops at key times that has to be the best way I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airarmsandy Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 being a farmer myself and having to put up with the pigeons eating my oilseed rape every year, from the time i plant it right up to harvest im certainly not going in favour of a closed season of any kind for this serious pest, they cost farmers millions of pounds across the country every year. you wouldnt want a closed season for rats and at the end of the day pigeons are just rats with wings! i can see where people think when the adult bird is killed it leaves the squabs in the nest to die, but if the household moggy caught the old pigeon would you want all the cats in the area caged up for 6 months to protect from this happening? i say its up to the individual to say if they want to shoot or not at certain times of the year, but i for 1 would be up the proverbial if a closed season ever came in. atb andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hi all, What a post, lots of different opinions,the fores and the against. There's one thing for sure once they have all been shot you cant shoot them twice. The last thing i want is to read in years to come if only we had . Personally i'm for a closed season at the moment,and review it when the numbers are back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hi all, What a post, lots of different opinions,the fores and the against. There's one thing for sure once they have all been shot you cant shoot them twice. The last thing i want is to read in years to come if only we had . Personally i'm for a closed season at the moment,and review it when the numbers are back. The numbers of wood pigeon are increasing year upon year! You are not seeing pigeon at the moment as they are somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airarmsandy Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 exactly....... im usually shooting between 100 and 200 a week, at the moment im struggling to shoot 40-50 just because they have vacated the area, they will be back in a few week, ive seen this lack of pigeons before and im sure i will see it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 exactly....... im usually shooting between 100 and 200 a week, at the moment im struggling to shoot 40-50 just because they have vacated the area, they will be back in a few week, ive seen this lack of pigeons before and im sure i will see it again. A fortnight ago hardly any pigs in the area. Yesterday farmer was tearing his hair out as 1000's of pigs tore his rape apart. They are here and the fun has begun. A little later this year due the warm weather and stacks of pig food in the woods. Last formal shoot on Friday then we can start roost shooting as well. Close season? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 The last thing i want is to read in years to come if only we had . Personally i'm for a closed season at the moment,and review it when the numbers are back. Opposite for me. I'd support a closed season IF and when the numbers are shown to be consistently dropping to a point where restraint is called for. As they are still on the increase at the moment there's no need for any restraint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 But who says there on the increase? BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) But who says there on the increase? BASC. The link is a page or two back, clearly not a BASC study. The evidence is out there, if you are too blind to see it then its a wonder you can shoot anything! Edited January 6, 2014 by Big Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) . Edited January 6, 2014 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Some people really do need to find a different hobby to save themselves the angst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Now now Mat, be nice. No my friend, the RSPB et al via the Breeding Bird Survey. The BTO/JNCC/RSPB Breeding Bird Survey (BBS) is the main scheme for monitoring the population changes of the UK’s common breeding birds. http://www.bto.org/volunteer-surveys/bbs Populations up 7% in the last survey year and 40% over the last 10 years. Edited January 6, 2014 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Now Big mat, I can see perfectly and I can count without using my fingers and thumbs. As I said in my first post lots of different opinions, and every one has rights to there opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 But who says there on the increase? BASC. I hope it's not the same bunch of muppets who "counted" the badger population before the cull and then did a drastic U turn and down graded their figures when they couldn't shoot enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 We've been shooting the same areas commercially now for 14 years, taking over 10,000 every year in the spring/summer. This summer was our best yet, with more birds than I have ever seen before. In the month of August alone we fired over 15,000 shots!! Even with this the numbers are still going up round here. Could you imagine the damage that would be done if we had a close season? We can see young birds born EVERY month of the year! I wish I had a tenner for every time this topic has been raised on here in the last 10 years!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bottoms Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I do believe you may have forgotten that we shoot the Wood pigeon to protect the crop of the the Farmers land that we shoot. Surely having a closed season would completely go against this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I do believe you may have forgotten that we shoot the Wood pigeon to protect the crop of the the Farmers land that we shoot. Surely having a closed season would completely go against this? Yes we do shoot to protect a crop, that covers any shooter from breaking the terms of the General Licence. However there are a number of people who apparently shoot pigeons for sport which is against the terms of the GL. The original question was about having a closed season for the birds which may not be needed right now but might be in the future if the population did drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yes we do shoot to protect a crop, that covers any shooter from breaking the terms of the General Licence. However there are a number of people who apparently shoot pigeons for sport which is against the terms of the GL.The original question was about having a closed season for the birds which may not be needed right now but might be in the future if the population did drop. I see where you are coming from, in that you would be on dodgy ground if ”sport” was the ONLY justification you gave if challenged. But that doesn't mean we have to shoot wearing a hair shirt purely out of a sense of duty whilst steadfastly refusing to enjoy it. Sport is not a dirty word. It is entirely legal and ethical to enjoy the fantastic sport that pigeon shooting offers, whilst still being aware of (and complying with) our GL obligations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yes we do shoot to protect a crop, that covers any shooter from breaking the terms of the General Licence. However there are a number of people who apparently shoot pigeons for sport which is against the terms of the GL. The original question was about having a closed season for the birds which may not be needed right now but might be in the future if the population did drop. Then surely we would have been doing our job to control and reduce their number!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bottoms Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yes we do shoot to protect a crop, that covers any shooter from breaking the terms of the General Licence. However there are a number of people who apparently shoot pigeons for sport which is against the terms of the GL. The original question was about having a closed season for the birds which may not be needed right now but might be in the future if the population did drop. I have great doubts that the pigeon population will ever drop so low that they are near to extinction, especially in our lifetime and so I do not think that a closed season is needed for vermin!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Lets hope not, for the pigeons sake . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I see where you are coming from, in that you would be on dodgy ground if ”sport” was the ONLY justification you gave if challenged. But that doesn't mean we have to shoot wearing a hair shirt purely out of a sense of duty whilst steadfastly refusing to enjoy it. Sport is not a dirty word. It is entirely legal and ethical to enjoy the fantastic sport that pigeon shooting offers, whilst still being aware of (and complying with) our GL obligations. Agree 100%! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) So... We've covered that wood pigeon isnt in decline and in fact is on the increase year upon year. We've covered that a closed season is not needed, if anything we should be upping our efforts to control the wood pigeon problem. We've also covered the GL regarding pigeon shooting yet I see many have missed the terminology used in the GL... The GL allows us to shoot wood pigeon to PREVENT damage to crops, there is no reference to crop protection and thus under the GL we can shoot Wood Pigeon in any capacity whether that be over standing crop, stubble or whatever, the Wood Pigeon is vermin and NEEDS to be controlled. What else is there to discuss?! Get out there and pop some pigeon. Edited January 8, 2014 by thepasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have great doubts that the pigeon population will ever drop so low that they are near to extinction, especially in our lifetime and so I do not think that a closed season is needed for vermin!!!Actually I don't disagree with the need for control, I enjoy my shooting and always have done. I would disagree with with calling woodpigeons vermin though, they are a successful native species that have adapted to take advantage of modern farming practice and introduced crops such as rape. Vermin species to me are those introduced by humans, pheasants, red leg partridges, signal crayfish, mitten crabs, foreigners. Put politicians on that list as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 All this discussion is academic. Pigs can only be shot for crop protection when all other means have failed. If the numbers ever got so low that crop protection wasn't needed you would not be able to shoot pigs at ANY time. They would be protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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