scotslad Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 Can't belive this has went on for 3 pages. No matter wot the law actually says or advises the min for 'safe storage' the simple fact is a ready bought cabinet with proper kite marks saves a massive ammount of time and hassle. And to be honest for 99% of gun owners is the ideal practical solution as if u buy a slightly larger cabinet u can always buy an other gun U could argue all day long about the rights and wrongs but the bottom line is the FLO/CC are the people who ultimately make the decisions (wether fully following guidlines or not), i'm all for standing up for ur rights but why make ur life needlessly hard For the OP i'd either ask why ur landlord doesn't want a gun cabinet installed, is it the gun storage? or the drilling holes? Almost every other thing mentioned will involve fixing it securely to the fabric of the house, so will involve drilling holes so can't see any difference between a clamp or a cabinet from the landlords perspective. The other option a very very heavy safe, i'd far rather u drilled holes than siting something weighing close to a tonne on joists/floor U could always phone BASC for advice, don't think landlords are allowed to refuse u storing legally held guns. As someone said ages ago u could always calll his bluff and threaten to leave over it, no landlord wats his flat to be left empty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 Jonathan - the only person I see resorting to abuse is :- I find that offensive. Why is that abusive? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 Reading all of this lot, might I suggest people have a read of this : https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/262215/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v6_Nov_2013.pdf Go to chapter 19. Pages 168 and 169 have all the guidance that could be required. Now, my OPINION (and yes, that's what a lot of people have been giving, their opinions. Nothing more) If you are in a low crime area, with nice modern locks on all the doors and windows, and it is a single gun, then you might have a chance of getting a gun clamp passed. You would probably have to argue your case to the FEO, and you'd need to know what the document above says, to argue your case effectively. With being in a rented property, then I'd imagine your chances of getting passed for a gun clamp are reduced. It's not like a house you own, where you can absolutely control access. The landlord probably has a spare set of keys to the property, and that means someone can get to the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 Jonathan - you appear to have cast doubt on Cranfield's word. I think it fair to say that 99.99999999% of members on this Forum, or anyone with a grip on reality, would disagree with you. You dish it out, but cry foul when anything comes back. No surprise really. :whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Have the police said this to you in person? I mean, they've actually said that only a cabinet and nothing else is acceptable as secure storage? I find it difficult to belive, to be honest. If you wanted to build a gun room or similar that was as secure as a cabinet they would not insist on a cabinet simply on the grounds of policy. J. I was not present at the conversation, but the farmer I am referring to is an intelligent and honest man, not prone to lying. He is buying a single gun and asked the FLO what the requirements were for storage, he was told that he (the FLO) would only approve a cabinet. I do not believe the conversation expanded to a list of the alternatives for storage, including a fortified gun room. Mainly because the farmer asked a question and received, in his opinion, a definitive answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 And here we go again; resorting to personal abuse. This is yet another thread where you are posting nothing of relevance. Rather than simply posting abuse, how about actually writing something relevant to what is being discussed? To re-ask you; how is what you posted relevant to the post you replied to? I'm genuinely interested as I can't see it. J. It is not the case of "here we go again" I did write something relevant to what is being discussed, http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/269434-other-methods-of-gun-security/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2385878 and you never commented on which is quite unusual for you, however a lot of replies to this thread are from practical experiences or conversations with people whom have experienced dealing with the different forces in the UK. TEH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 My wife and I are landlords of a flat and like to think we are good and fair. So here is an observation from a shooter and landlord and please, let's not start 90 pages on landlords!!! The lease is a standard lease used by many estate agents and can be modified to suite particular circumstances, as necessary. Paraphrasing one of the standard clauses, it says, in effect, that you cannot hang pictures or make other alteration to the walls involving drilling holes without the landlords consent. Our previous tenants left and in one room alone there were 30 holes badly filled and daubed with emulsion which didn't match the original colour scheme. We had to redecorate and charge the tenants' deposit and then go to arbitration to get the decorating costs back. A right pain in the proverbial and something I hate doing. The opening post states that he has asked the landlord who has refused and I can understand why. Therefore, one possible way around it is to ask the landlord if it is the guns or decor which makes him refuse? If guns then that's that as it is a matter of principal. If decor the you could ask to have a clause added to the lease that says you will refill holes and decorate wall to original standards and landlords satisfaction on vacating the property. He may be persuaded by such an approach. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 We lived in a rented house for a year and the gun cabinet attached in the loft with coachbolts was fine with our FEO. Very low crime area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 We lived in a rented house for a year and the gun cabinet attached in the loft with coachbolts was fine with our FEO. Very low crime area. well its harder to remove a purlin from a roof than it is to knock a blooming big hole in a brick wall! If we are talking silly thermalite block clad in plasterboard a blooming claw hammer might suffice. Claw hammer and cold chisel or worse still battery op grinder will get into any safe. One should think on that last sentence and act accordingly, its a greater fear of mine that my guns in their complete state end up in the wrong hands than an FEO wants something else doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangford wildfowler Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Surely when you move out again (if so) you could just fill in the bolt holes with polyfiller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darno Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 The op only asked for some suggestions on other methods of gun security!The answer is ask you FEO and see what he says!I think all other debates should be moved to pm or another topic so he can see the answer to his question without all the other **** on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 The op only asked for some suggestions on other methods of gun security! The answer is ask you FEO and see what he says! I think all other debates should be moved to pm or another topic so he can see the answer to his question without all the other **** on here! Oh you're a happy bunny, I bet you're great fun at a Christmas party. Lighten up and enjoy the fun of Pigeon Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darno Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Yeah but come on! I know it's fun, but the guy is trying to get some advise, not have the post hijacked with "the law says this" "the law says that". I love a good rant or debate on here but I was just thinking about the op. Look you have got me doing it now:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBLATCH Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Well.....upfront I guess it was just the builder and carpet fitter who knew where the guns were...now we all know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 See, it's compulsive ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darno Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 No it's not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerbob Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Can't someone put Jonathan L out of our misery..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 How about this. I love the staircase modification. As far as cabinets having to be fitted I personally know of several holders that don’t have cabinets and they haven’t been challenged. One person has one shotgun that is secured to a water pipe by a cable. Another that has a shotgun and a rifle in a locked wooden wall cupboard in a darkened corridor with a bit of light weight cable through the trigger guard and another person an under keeper that has shotguns and centre fire rifles in a metal cabinet attached to the structure of a mobile home by bolts through the wall and then through a steel plate on the outside of the wall. And that was on the recommendation of the Feo visit. I do not subscribe to the belief that we should all submit to what the feo says and it does no harm to challenge there opinion with the firearms manager if you do not agree with what they say, OR IF it is just “force policy”. Obviously most suggestions by the Feo’s are made because they are the ones that have to put their necks on the line and they are only making suggestions to enhance your security. No one wants weapons to get into unauthorised hand under any circumstances. PS. One, now retired Feo was telling everyone even RFDs that if you reloaded your ammo then you had to enter it on your FAC. This was challenged and the person in question (The Feo) was called in to HQ to have a chat in the ear about making up the rules as he went along. SO don’t always take what they say as one of the ten commandments. Another reason for having a Police Force rather than county forces. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopefulcatcher Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 If your landlord will not let you bolt the cabinet or securicord or gun clamp to the wall, would he let you secure it to the floor on its back. Good coach bolts to a wooden floor or expanding bolts through a concrete floor should suffice. Lift up a piece of carpet in a convenient place, out of sight and job done, and when you move, no holes in the wall to fill in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) Jonathan - you appear to have cast doubt on Cranfield's word. I think it fair to say that 99.99999999% of members on this Forum, or anyone with a grip on reality, would disagree with you. You dish it out, but cry foul when anything comes back. No surprise really. :whistling: What's this post relating to? Who's word have a I cast doubt upon? Over what have I 'cried foul'? J. Edited December 28, 2013 by JonathanL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 What's this post relating to? Who's word have a I cast doubt upon? J. Post #44 replied to in #55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 I dont think it matters how heavy it is , the legal requirement is for it to be bolted to the fabric of the building , he may have four people turn up to rob his house My gun storage cabinet is not bolted to anything,it has been approved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 It is not the case of "here we go again" I did write something relevant to what is being discussed, http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/269434-other-methods-of-gun-security/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2385878 and you never commented on which is quite unusual for you, however a lot of replies to this thread are from practical experiences or conversations with people whom have experienced dealing with the different forces in the UK. TEH I didn't reply because I didn't happen to notice it. In any event, it isn't relevant to the points which I, or anyone else, have made here nor to the subject of the thread. Unless there is some relevant reason that I've missed. Is there? The point about practical experiences of those who have dealt with different forces is relevant and is the whole point I have been on about. That being; people on here have stated that it is a legal requirement to have a gun cabinet (or at least there is a legal minimum requirement for a particular and specific type of security) which is not true. No force would, or is, saying that as far as I'm aware so people's experiences may be distorted somewhat. There are no forces that are saying that only a steel cabinet is acceptable. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 Jonathan - stop making a fool of yourself - please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 See, it's compulsive ! [/quote No it's not! Obviously it is!., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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