Missing with Beretta 391 semi

[dingocatcher]

Hi guys

 

I've had my 391 from new now about 5 or 6 years and never been out much with it until lately.

 

I've been out with it now over the last few weeks 3 to 4 times a week at crows etc and i'm just not hitting with it at all

 

At times i think the bloody wad has hit the bird! I've tried different chokes and shells but to no avail. I've done a right bit at the clays with the gun when i bought it and got on very well but i'm starting to lose all heart in the gun and thinking about changing to a over under again.

 

Maybe i'm on the wrong shells as i noticed a few post about shells not suiting semi's, can anyone point me in the right direction as where i maybe going wrong or what is the best shell for crows etc

 

Thanks for any help

 

 

[Cranfield]

I doubt the cartridges have anything to do with the problem, most posts about cartridges in semi autos refers to whether the gun can cycle the particular cartridge efficiently, rather than help you hit things.

 

From what you describe it sounds as though it would be useful to spend some time back on the clays again, just to reacquaint yourself with the feel of the gun.

You say that you use to shoot well with it, so I expect you will shoot well with it again.

The advantage of clays is that you can have a lot of targets in a short time.

Live quarry shooting doesn't give you that frequency of targets (usually) and once you start missing a few the frustration sets in and you end up where you couldn't hit a barn even if your were inside of it.

Most of us have experienced this and so know what its like.

 

Don't give up on it, they are good guns.

[wymberley]

In that timescale, you can put on/lose weight. Knock up a temporary pattern plate if you don't have access to a proper one and poop off a few rounds at an aiming point but mounting the gun as you normally do from a range of, say, 20 yards. That'll give you a clue while eliminating one possible fault.

Edited February 2, 2014 by wymberley

[dingocatcher]

Cheers guys

 

Will try and get a few goes at the clays next week.

 

When you see the bloody wad near hit the bird you start to wonder is it the shells or choke etc

 

I do like the gun a lot and never had any problem cycling shells no matter how light but then again the gun is always cleaned very well and oiled

Just starting to lose faith

 

Thanks again

[Dave1087]

In that timescale, you can put on/lose weight. Knock up a temporary pattern plate if you don't have access to a proper one and poop off a few rounds at an aiming point but mounting the gun as you normally do from a range of, say, 20 yards. That'll give you a clue while eliminating one possible fault.

+1

[ditchman]

have exactly the same problem....ive always used a sidexside, but always hankered after an auto, so several years ago i got a mint second hand 303 model 26" full set of chokes.....loved it, but my pigeon shooting went AWOL.....doing skeet no probs...eventually i oiled it up and put it back in the cabinate and went back to the side by side...pigeon shooting became spot on again.

 

im selling my game gun now and will go back to the auto as it is so easy in the hide and safe when there are 2 of you......im really looking forward to it !! i am deterined to master it as i really like the gun...when i used it before i used it mostly roost shootin and i know it can do the buis' as i have pulled off some great shots at height in the wind, but i have never been consistant with it like the sxs, ive had the butt off and put the right wedge / shims in it and it fits a treat when i put it up to the shoulder, i think my problem might be that i am not pulling in front enough as it has a different sight picture, having said that i have missed some real dooozis coming straight in to me

 

im determined to get to the bottom of this as i like the gun, it moves well and feels good holding it, so when i start again in the spring i will let you know how i get on

 

 

ditch

[Underdog]

You mentioned the wad....are you seeing the wad on / near the bird? If so then your to far in front!

I suffer from this from shooting muzzleloaders!

 

U.

[Guest cookoff013]

pattern the gun, should work out the poi /poa relationship too.

[pob]

I'm currently going through the same thing with my Xtrema II. I've never shot as well with it as with my OU, but lately, frankly, I've just been wasting diesel on trips out wildfowling.

I had it fitted by the Essex shooting school a couple of years ago, after my shooting started to go off. They changed the shims but there were clear signs that the rear stock had shifted over time. Not sure if the 391 is the same configuration, but maybe take the butt plate off and check the retaining screw? You might see scrape marks on the metalwork indicating movement.

As others have said, practice dry mounting, get on a pattern plate, maybe some clays then get out roost shooting. You can get lots of traffic that way and you'll get your confidence back. I'm told that when patterning it's important not to aim it like a rifle, but mount and shoot naturally to get a proper indication of POA.

I've found that when I lack confidence, I lift my head to check my shot and I'm then not following through properly. It takes discipline to trust yourself when you are shooting badly. Personally, I'm going back to school again, then roost shooting next Saturday. Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

[wymberley]

Cheers guys

 

Will try and get a few goes at the clays next week.

 

When you see the bloody wad near hit the bird you start to wonder is it the shells or choke etc

 

I do like the gun a lot and never had any problem cycling shells no matter how light but then again the gun is always cleaned very well and oiled

Just starting to lose faith

 

Thanks again

Forget the wad (the 'club' coach's best friend!) if it's anywhere at all in relation to the shot it's nothing more than sheer coincidence.

[88b]

One thing I've found when using my auto is it's lighter compared to my Miroku with 32" barrels . If I shoot my old SxS I have the same problem with swing. As others suggested a pattern plate would be a good idea and let you see where the shot is actually going.

[ChrisAsh]

Winter clothes making the lop longer?

[Scully]

I doubt the cartridges have anything to do with the problem, most posts about cartridges in semi autos refers to whether the gun can cycle the particular cartridge efficiently, rather than help you hit things.

 

From what you describe it sounds as though it would be useful to spend some time back on the clays again, just to reacquaint yourself with the feel of the gun.

You say that you use to shoot well with it, so I expect you will shoot well with it again.

The advantage of clays is that you can have a lot of targets in a short time.

Live quarry shooting doesn't give you that frequency of targets (usually) and once you start missing a few the frustration sets in and you end up where you couldn't hit a barn even if your were inside of it.

Most of us have experienced this and so know what its like.

 

Don't give up on it, they are good guns.

All the above. Also I would add that different guns have different handling characteristics and the weight of a gun can make a world of difference to your shooting. Light guns are easy to whip through a target but slow down quicker, whereas a heavy gun which may take a bit to get moving,also keeps its momentum going. The difference may not be noticeable but it is enough to make a difference.

I swap my guns around willy nilly but most of them are heavy so it doesn't make much difference, but I am aware of making a concerted effort with two of my pumps (a .410 and a 20) which are much lighter than any of my other guns. My game gun is rarely used once the season is over unless I'm shooting clays, which doesn't happen often, and I shoot mostly my autos. A few weeks prior to the season starting again I take out my o/u just to get familiar with it again.

Persevere; it will be worth it.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Scully

[humperdingle]

As has been said already, lots of things can affect where you're pointing the gun, but the problem probably isn't the gun or carts.

 

I used a 391 for a few years, it seemed to fit me perfectly, but I sold it when considering leaving the sport :(

 

Looking for another.

[dingocatcher]

I do like the gun a lot and don't think i'd sell it but i was starting to think about getting a o/u

 

Some shots do knock down really well and its very seldom when i hit that i wing a bird. Its either straight down or flies away.

 

Does anyone have any preferred loads for there semi for rough shooting? Also chokes which do you prefer for the 391's i think if i had a good base for shells and chokes at least i can rule them out and get on with my technique

 

Thanks for all the replies

 

[wymberley]

I do like the gun a lot and don't think i'd sell it but i was starting to think about getting a o/u

 

Some shots do knock down really well and its very seldom when i hit that i wing a bird. Its either straight down or flies away.

 

Does anyone have any preferred loads for there semi for rough shooting? Also chokes which do you prefer for the 391's i think if i had a good base for shells and chokes at least i can rule them out and get on with my technique

 

Thanks for all the replies

 

Your starter for everything really is to ensure that the shot is going where you are looking - your first base - if you can't be sure of that, nothing else is worth a jot. Check with the pattern plate wearing as Chris indicates some mid weight clothing. It takes but a few minutes to quickly fire off, say, 5 shots at a square yard of propped up cardboard, estimate the centre of the pellet spread and see where that is in relation to your aiming point. Then you KNOW and can then go on to see where the fault lies. If you do do it and make a decent fist of it, then full choke and 16 yards has its advantages assuming an average barrel length.

[blasterjudd]

Hi

 

Ive got a 20g 391 i had srrious trouble with mine couldnt hit a barn door to begin with, so it might be worth changing around the shim in the butt see if that improves things on the cast offset for u its only a 5 min job so can put it back again if no good but worth ago???

 

Let us know if it works for u too?

i also bought a skeet ext choke that really got me sorted out now alls good and i dont miss many !!!

[Dekers]

I would be very surprised if it was anything specifically to do with the gun, my guess is you are simply not pointing it in the right place.

 

Follow advice above!

 

Many shoot behind at live quarry, but if you are seriously thinking the wad may have got close, the odds are you are shooting in front!

[Westley]

I do like the gun a lot and don't think i'd sell it but i was starting to think about getting a o/u

 

Some shots do knock down really well and its very seldom when i hit that i wing a bird. Its either straight down or flies away.

 

Does anyone have any preferred loads for there semi for rough shooting? Also chokes which do you prefer for the 391's i think if i had a good base for shells and chokes at least i can rule them out and get on with my technique

 

Thanks for all the replies

 

 

 

Just stick with it. If you have shot well with the gun in the past, then perhaps you have developed a bit of a bad habit like head lifting. With regards to 'what cartridge' I have shoved just about everything through mine from 21 to 36 gram, all without a problem. I just buy the cheapest for the job in hand, but the Hull superfast seem to work in both 27 and 29 gram. As for choke, I have stuck a Teague 1/2 choke in which has not been out in the last 8 years (apart from cleaning and oiling) and that seems to do the job on both clays and pigeons.

[dingocatcher]

Thanks again for the replies guys

 

I'll get a target set up and see what way the pattern is to my eye on target at the start of the week! Hopefully tomorrow if i can bluff the time away from doing a bit of work!

 

how big would you normally make a pattern plate?

[humperdingle]

Thanks again for the replies guys

 

I'll get a target set up and see what way the pattern is to my eye on target at the start of the week! Hopefully tomorrow if i can bluff the time away from doing a bit of work!

 

how big would you normally make a pattern plate?

Get a roll of carpet lining paper... It's about 4ft wide. Roll some off, mark it, fix it, shoot and repeat.

[dingocatcher]

Get a roll of carpet lining paper... It's about 4ft wide. Roll some off, mark it, fix it, shoot and repeat.

lovely

 

Thanks will try and get set up tomorrow

[army646]

I suffer slightly from this problem when I transfer between my old Beretta 56e U/O and my A303 semi. It takes me a few shots on the clay ground to get my eye in with one or the other when I change guns.

 

I have put this settling in period down to a couple of things:

 

1. Cast

2. Muzzle flip

 

You will probably find that your SBS/OU will have some cast to the stock. Your semi will be totally neutral cast. Because pigeon shooters shoot 'game style' i.e. gun up from lap or hip and shoot it is a very instinctive shot. The cast in the stock or not as the case may be, has a big influence on where the shot pattern is placed. I would not be surprised if the neutral cast in your semi's stock is causing you to shoot behind the target. If you are shooting a tight choke try opening up to a quarter choke and see if you start clipping targets.

 

Also don't forget that the action of a semi auto tends to absorb recoil and therefore you get less muzzle flip. You may well find that you are inadvertantly shooting low with the semi as you are probably subconsciously accomodating the 'muzzle flip/lift' that you will tend to get with your non semi auto gun.

 

I have an Escort Magnum semi that I could not hit jack with for a long time. So I consulted with my local gunsmith, presenting him with my Beretta O/U and the Escort and informing him that I shot well with the Beretta but not so the Escort. He looked at them both then asked me if I was left handed, to which my reply was no, but why did he ask? He then preceeded to point out that the stock of the Escort was showing a hellish amount of left hand cast causing me to shoot so far behind the target, that I stood no hope of hitting anything with it!! I replaced the badly finished stock with a new one that gave neutral cast and voila!! My eye was back in and I was hitting stuff again.

 

Best advice that I could give, is that when you go from one gun to the other, go and iron out the wrinkles on some clays.

 

The advice that someone else gave regarding patterning your gun on a pattern plate (big sheet of paper) is a good one, because it will show you where you are placing the shot with each gun. If muzzle flip is affecting where you are placing the shot, it will show.

 

Stick with the Beretta even the old ones are lovely guns.

 

 

[dingocatcher]

I suffer slightly from this problem when I transfer between my old Beretta 56e U/O and my A303 semi. It takes me a few shots on the clay ground to get my eye in with one or the other when I change guns.

 

I have put this settling in period down to a couple of things:

 

1. Cast

2. Muzzle flip

 

You will probably find that your SBS/OU will have some cast to the stock. Your semi will be totally neutral cast. Because pigeon shooters shoot 'game style' i.e. gun up from lap or hip and shoot it is a very instinctive shot. The cast in the stock or not as the case may be, has a big influence on where the shot pattern is placed. I would not be surprised if the neutral cast in your semi's stock is causing you to shoot behind the target. If you are shooting a tight choke try opening up to a quarter choke and see if you start clipping targets.

 

Also don't forget that the action of a semi auto tends to absorb recoil and therefore you get less muzzle flip. You may well find that you are inadvertantly shooting low with the semi as you are probably subconsciously accomodating the 'muzzle flip/lift' that you will tend to get with your non semi auto gun.

 

I have an Escort Magnum semi that I could not hit jack with for a long time. So I consulted with my local gunsmith, presenting him with my Beretta O/U and the Escort and informing him that I shot well with the Beretta but not so the Escort. He looked at them both then asked me if I was left handed, to which my reply was no, but why did he ask? He then preceeded to point out that the stock of the Escort was showing a hellish amount of left hand cast causing me to shoot so far behind the target, that I stood no hope of hitting anything with it!! I replaced the badly finished stock with a new one that gave neutral cast and voila!! My eye was back in and I was hitting stuff again.

 

Best advice that I could give, is that when you go from one gun to the other, go and iron out the wrinkles on some clays.

 

The advice that someone else gave regarding patterning your gun on a pattern plate (big sheet of paper) is a good one, because it will show you where you are placing the shot with each gun. If muzzle flip is affecting where you are placing the shot, it will show.

 

Stick with the Beretta even the old ones are lovely guns.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply

 

I'm gradually restoring my confidence in the semi before i start with the pattern plate

 

As i said before i don't want to be changing or adding to cabinet as my 391 is still like new

 

Thanks again

[wymberley]

Get a roll of carpet lining paper... It's about 4ft wide. Roll some off, mark it, fix it, shoot and repeat.

If you have trouble getting the lining paper (good tip, thanks), I've just done my cast from 20 yards with 3/4 choke (nominal Full but shot 3/4) and put every pellet on a 34" square. You should have no trouble from 16 yards with Full on something that size. 16 yards? On average one's eye is ish 36" from the muzzle so an inch error at 16 yards equates to 1/16" error at the comb.