grrclark Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 The trouble is, much of the new technology, research, etc is massively subsidised by the Scottish governent to set up in Scotland in the first place. The Scots are using central government money to buy in business, then claim Scotland is thriving! As an example, wind & water turbine manufacturing companies are promised start-up grants, low/no rates, cheap debt funding, and so on in order to set up in order to reduce the dependency on oil revenue. Where's the money coming from to buy in the business? I'd rather increase the subsidies for the North East & North West of England in order to regenerate those areas. Oh, and the Scot claiming that the English are racist? That's a joke - this whole referendum is promulgated on the SNP's bigoted rants against England. You've all watched Braveheart after a couple of shandys and think you're turning back the enemy. The rest of us think you're biting the hand that feeds you. Sure there is a fairly large degree of inward investment funded by the tax payer, UK and European, but it is disingenuous to suggest that central funding is the sole result of the English tax payer. There is also a significant amount of private equity, from all parts of the globe, coming into Scotland as well that promotes development and growth. Scotland has a very rich heritage of innovation and continues to lead the way in pioneering research in many areas and that will always be in demand. I actually don't disagree with you that Scotland is far too heavily reliant on public sector jobs, which is ultimately a type of funding in itself and i also agree that there is a pervasive sense of self entitlement throughout much of Scotland, it is a horribly socialist place at times, however that is not unique to us Scots, it is a scourge that infects all of the UK. I firmly believe that the UK is best served by remaining the UK and we should collectively work to reduce the level of net consumers of public money. As for racism, yes we have our fair share of narrow minded fools with misguided notions and in some part that sadly dose contribute to the debate we are now having, but again that is not a commodity that is unique to us north of the border. If some of my fellow Scots were spouting forth with vitriol I would be just as quick to call them stupid and ignorant. I have no issue at all with people having strong opinions, it adds colour and variety, but i really can't stand utter ignorance and stupidity and sadly there are a few on here who offer nothing but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 True, the content of the White Paper may not be entirely accurate - but whats new! All political blurb of this type is general and lacking in substance - let Cameron and Salmond have a debate and, currently as a "BRIT" I would like to hear what my Prime Minister has to say in defence of staying in the Union. Salmond has been banging on about the pro's of independence but absolutely nothing has been offered by Cameron in support of staying - he has nothing to offer the Scots and would be hard pushed to convince the Scottish people that he has a sound case for remaining united. I think you will find come the day that the Scottish people will be the ones who see the "sound case" for remaining united. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 As for keeping the pound don't see how u can be truely independent and keep it, but does it really make any difference nowadays, 20-30yrs ago YES, but not now u just hand ur card over and pay for wot u need even drinks in a pub so really u hardly need cash nowadays and u can so easily get cash back from pubs/shops etc. . This has to be quote of the Century. so when you pay by card you are paying in what currency then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sure there is a fairly large degree of inward investment funded by the tax payer, UK and European, but it is disingenuous to suggest that central funding is the sole result of the English tax payer. There is also a significant amount of private equity, from all parts of the globe, coming into Scotland as well that promotes development and growth. Scotland has a very rich heritage of innovation and continues to lead the way in pioneering research in many areas and that will always be in demand. That inward investment is coming into the United Kingdom. If it continues to arrive into an independent Scotland remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 True, the content of the White Paper may not be entirely accurate - but whats new! All political blurb of this type is general and lacking in substance - let Cameron and Salmond have a debate and, currently as a "BRIT" I would like to hear what my Prime Minister has to say in defence of staying in the Union. Salmond has been banging on about the pro's of independence but absolutely nothing has been offered by Cameron in support of staying - he has nothing to offer the Scots and would be hard pushed to convince the Scottish people that he has a sound case for remaining united. It isn't a contest between Salmond and Cameron, albeit the NAT's are trying to turn it into that. It is up to the NAT's to convince us as it is them that want to change the status quo. If anything the debate should be between the leaders of the yes and no campaigns. The reason Salmond is so keen on the debate is because Scotland is generally anti Tory, so even if DC provided the strongest and most accurate of arguments it would still be seen and promoted as lies peddled by an English Tory. It is lose lose for DC and ultimately the no campaign, not due to substance but due to ignorant party politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rimotu66 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 True, the content of the White Paper may not be entirely accurate - but whats new! All political blurb of this type is general and lacking in substance - let Cameron and Salmond have a debate and, currently as a "BRIT" I would like to hear what my Prime Minister has to say in defence of staying in the Union. Salmond has been banging on about the pro's of independence but absolutely nothing has been offered by Cameron in support of staying - he has nothing to offer the Scots and would be hard pushed to convince the Scottish people that he has a sound case for remaining united. To be fair, Cameron has said nothing to make me want to stay in England Lets be honest, nothing that happens in any government in the UK has any real affect on us that are on the 'shop floor', lets all just crack on and keep shooting eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_gsxr1000 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Salmond is the worst thing that came out of Scotland, do you lot think every Scott wants a yes vote ? Would be the worst thing possible I for one will be voting no ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheasant Plucker Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I think you will find come the day that the Scottish people will be the ones who see the "sound case" for remaining united. KW Maybe so, but lets hear it from Cameron NOW. Lets hear him convince the Scottish voters who did not vote for him or his party, that the future will be better than it is at present (and more importantly, the future) governed by Westminster, and indeed, factually contradict what is essentially the SNP's published proposal for independence. After all the present governement in Westminster is effectively the "NO" party. Edited February 12, 2014 by Pheasant Plucker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 This has to be quote of the Century. so when you pay by card you are paying in what currency then? That was the point i was trying to make. Wot difference does it make wot currency it is, ur bank will just convert it and still the take same ammount off ur account anyway U do not need to go to a bank/*cashline to draw money before u buy anything anymore. I'll be sure not to read 1 of these threads nearer the time as some of the nonsense on here would definately pushing me for the yes box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 As I posted in the last, or the one before that, or that, post, on this subject, I suspect that an independent Scotland is inevitable now or later, at least it might stop all the wingeing from both sides, when Scotland becomes independent it will have to have its own currency and will be responsible for its own decisions no blame could be placed on anyone else, I would be happier to remain in a united Britain but without the racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lampwick Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Just delete two paragraphs. Please vote yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheasant Plucker Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Salmond is the worst thing that came out of Scotland, do you lot think every Scott wants a yes vote ? Would be the worst thing possible I for one will be voting no ! Yes thats fine. But where are the strong "NO" debaters? There are none. Cameron with a wealth of legal, political and financial brains in Westminster must challenge Salmond face to face and give the Scottish people a balanced view. Currently there is none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdie2013 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 This has to be quote of the Century. so when you pay by card you are paying in what currency then? Have a think b4 you post AVB. Your coming across as a numpty. Made sense to me but then us Scots invented most things in the world. Don't you owe us for our inventions and contribution to mankind. Phone, push bike, penicillin, tar, dolly the sheep , etc etc. What have u brought to the party? Will young, Elton, jimmy saville and THATCHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Nowt wrong with Mrs T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Lets stop this getting personal please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdie2013 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Nowt wrong with Mrs T She punished Scotland trialing the poll tax and generally disliked us. That said I should thank her for the right to buy, which tops up my pension pot with rental income. Anyways, the bottom line is Westminster is playing into the snp's hands and for all the anti Scottish bile on here, the decision is Scotlands. DC doesn't give a xxxx outside the south east of your land so you neednae lose sleep over OUR vote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Nowt wrong with Mrs T I agree wholeheartedly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldivalloch Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 And your sources were what?? Try this site; http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php Or: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknotes_of_the_pound_sterling Your sources pretty much verify what I said (see Wikipedia, the question of Legal Tender). My source? Several years service as a bank officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 That inward investment is coming into the United Kingdom. If it continues to arrive into an independent Scotland remains to be seen. It would remain to be seen, but we need to consider the reasons why investment is directed towards certain areas. It isn't a case of throwing the sweaty socks a bone out of charity, it is sometimes political, but largely it is due to socio-economic reasons. So if we used wind energy as as example a great deal of European money is funnelled towards Scotland, England and Germany. The money coming to Scotland is due to already established skills base, the geography allowing for wind rich areas, the geology of the seabed for sitting jackets to place turbines on, the proximity of the supply chain to the areas where the wind farms will be based, etc. None of that would change post a vote for independence so investment in those areas would remain secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 That was the point i was trying to make. Wot difference does it make wot currency it is, ur bank will just convert it and still the take same ammount off ur account anyway U do not need to go to a bank/*cashline to draw money before u buy anything anymore. I'll be sure not to read 1 of these threads nearer the time as some of the nonsense on here would definately pushing me for the yes box The argument about currency has very little to do with the cash in your pocket (or electronically), it is an awful lot more complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think they should have their own currency called the Krankie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 In my opinion if they vote no and stay part of the UK the Scottish assembly should go they should start paying for prescriptions and university education too and we should all be treated the same Geordie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes thats fine. But where are the strong "NO" debaters? There are none. Cameron with a wealth of legal, political and financial brains in Westminster must challenge Salmond face to face and give the Scottish people a balanced view. Currently there is none. There is a massive amount of information around the no campaign, but the main thing is that so far the yes campaign have failed to produce anything of substance to back up the promises. It is really easy for Alex the Fish to promise the people of Scotland some sort of utopia, where everyone is better off, there is social equality, we will build a wealth fund for our future, etc, but there has been nothing to show how we can do that. If i said vote for me and i will promise to make you wealthier, happier and a much better shot I would like to think that you would ask me to prove how i can do that with some sort of basis of fact. So far the yes campaign have not done that, they dance around it, but there is no substantive or qualitative answer, at least from how I perceive things. Another argument that I hear a lot from the yes campaign is that once we are free of westminster control we can make our own choices, but i am still to hear an answer, other than increasing the welfare burden, that we can't already do now. I guess we look at things from different perspectives, I need to be convinced why we should change from a known set of circumstance, you need to be convinced why that known set of circumstance is better than what is currently nothing more than a grand idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 The argument about currency has very little to do with the cash in your pocket (or electronically), it is an awful lot more complex. It is an emotive issue fraught with uncertainty. Will everyone's immovable assets be re priced into Scottish scroats? Will everyone move their liquid assets outside an independent Scotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldivalloch Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) This is a great thread, but unfortunately there are few real pearls of wisdom amongst all the jibes, insults, comical spelling mistakes and howlers. (The best by far has been post no. 5 from Kent in which he discusses whether the Scots should be allowed to "keep stirling" (sic). Bit of a foregone conclusion that they should, given that Stirling is a Scottish town......) But to be serious for a moment, the one thing that really baffles me is this - if (as so many learned Pigeon Watchers contend) Scotland is such a desolate place, populated by Irn Bru-swilling, benefits-grabbing parasites who are sucking the life-blood out of Mother England, why is there such a vociferous "no" lobby? Why are the three main political parties doing their damndest to maintain the Union? I can't believe that it comes from a sense of duty and charity towards the primitive aboriginals of the north. I'd have thought that if Scotland were indeed such a burden, these parties would be more than glad to ease the road to separation, and Hell mend the Scots for their impertinent independent spirit. If any of the people who have posted derogatory messages would like to come back and give me just one cogent reason why England hasn't grabbed with both hands this golden opportunity to get rid of a nation of alleged losers I'll go to bed comforted and reassured that I haven't spent the last half hour reading the outpourings of quite a number of people who would be well advised to keep their ill-formed opinions to themselves.. Edited February 12, 2014 by aldivalloch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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