scolopax Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Not a happy bunny, when I first heard of the proposal I naively imagined that our shooting organisations would not support the idea, after all for many Wildfowlers the reintroduced greylag goose is a major quarry species and should be afforded full protection in the breeding season, should it not (?) But no.........both BASC and the CA have responded to the consultation that greylag geese should be included in the next round of general licenses!! So if you are of the opinion that the status quo should remain, the greylag goose being afforded a closed season but one in which a special license may be issued on request to counter serious agricultural damage, then please respond to the consultation on a personal level and also encourage your wildfowling club to respond to same. http://basc.org.uk/blog/media/consultations/english-general-licences-consultation-have-your-say/ Edited April 22, 2014 by scolopax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy baxendale Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Wow - that beggars belief. I like many others i suspect replied to the BASC consultation that it should remain as is - As with lead shot it seems BASC is failing us again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Was wondering over the last few days why only one forum was making anything of this, and whether i had over reacted !! most reactions seem to be amazement at BASC,s support of the changes. Quietly i had hoped that BASC would do a u turn when they realised the damage it is going to do them, too late now i suspect. They are about to alienate most of the wildfowlers in the country, obviously no thought has gone into there support for the changes and the result was very easy to predict. They are in drastic need of a public relations officer who has his finger on the pulse and who is in touch with the views of the shooting public. Of course some will see no problem with it at all and consider the chance to shoot out of season Greylags just like the Canadas a bonus. This one is going to run and run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) deleted Edited April 22, 2014 by mudpatten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Problem is more the percentage of its members who don't care about anything but more things to kill for longer. Was the same with the changes in the deer season, some shooters unfortunately do not deserve the name sportsman and unfortunately or Orgs are often under the control of non or very new shooters. Speak up chaps let your thoughts be heard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 basc must have their reasons and data to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 basc must have their reasons and data to back it up. most likely the guys who think its good to shoot them all year, next thing you know someone will be selling days on summer greylag goose flights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 its funny actually because i saw a load of greylag on one of my permissions today. normally its just canada. maybe its an omen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 God help us, why cant we have common sense and leave the status quo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I've had my say with BASC but I doubt they will listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I've had my say with BASC but I doubt they will listen. It pains me to say it but this is what happens when we as the members allow suits to be employed rather than true countymen and shooters. The Greylag as we know has to wait a while to become fully mature before it can re-produce so the real damage will not be seen straight off in numbers killed, what will happen is surprise years of failed breeding . I know some say we need qualified people to run our orgs but that term cuts both ways, the board are to blame and us the members for not shouting load enough OR perhaps the wrong persons shouted thinking of more sport (a very short term view). Once over we over hunted the native breeding greylag goose in the days of the muzzle loader and look how long its taken to come back, still its only locally super abundant. Back in the 50/60's there were guys moving resident breeders from Scotland to re-establish the birds and we do those guys no service with our efforts. Four came over me last night when I was rabbiting last night at dusk, could have had an easy double and possibly a triple at the poo old breeding obsessed birds! next year someone could pop them off and feel all happy with themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 There must be reports to back up the application though. BASC is too big to want to make such a mistake one would have thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) The main answer to this problem is simple , to save money. At the moment anyone can get a special licence to deal with the geese if they are causing a problem, a govenment department department will look into the problem and make a Decisions on granting a special licence. Which in almost all cases it will. But this costs money a case officer to look into the problem admin staff and so on and the government is cutting back finances to all government departments including conservation departments. The governments solution simple put greylag on the General licence , and almost no costs , they will just review it once a year. There is very little demand for greylag control { 50 special licences were granted in 2012 ) and most of it comes from conservation bodies rather than farmers. The reason , greylag can damage the vegetation within the reserve but it could be argued that is only a natural feature now greylags are starting to get up to their normal population before they were exterminated 100 years ago in lowland England. It tood 60 years of hard conservation work to build up the English population to a level where a reasonable harvest can be taken from them and now we are about to chuck all of it away in part thanks to BASC. As for why BASC is supporting this measure is anyone’s guess but they clearly have not thought this through and more likely just pandering favour from Natural England. Perhaps David BASC or another member of staff would like to publish BASCs reasons behind their decision. If anyone has a problem a tried and tested licence mechanism is already in place so why chance it unless its to save a few quid at the expense of a major quarry for many people. Edited April 25, 2014 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I have heard about licences for some of the Scottish Islands, where the Greylag has numbered out of all proportions but was not aware that it was suggested an open licence everywhere. Are we sure this is the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I have heard about licences for some of the Scottish Islands, where the Greylag has numbered out of all proportions but was not aware that it was suggested an open licence everywhere. Are we sure this is the case? It has been proposed that greylag be put onto the general licence by Natural England. Currently greys can only be shot in season, or under special licence which has to be applied for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 It has been proposed that greylag be put onto the general licence by Natural England. Currently greys can only be shot in season, or under special licence which has to be applied for. You may shoot Greylag out of season here( western isles) if you get a special licence and prove all other means of crop protection have failed, I am gobsmacked at the proposals to put Greylag on a general licence in England, I can only wonder at the mayhem that could result. Greylag should be shot in season, with adequate equipment and always with respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 The main answer to this problem is simple , to save money. At the moment anyone can get a special licence to deal with the geese if they are causing a problem, a govenment department department will look into the problem and make a Decisions on granting a special licence. Which in almost all cases it will. But this costs money a case officer to look into the problem admin staff and so on and the government is cutting back finances to all government departments including conservation departments. The governments solution simple put greylag on the General licence , and almost no costs , they will just review it once a year. There is very little demand for greylag control { 50 special licences were granted in 2012 ) and most of it comes from conservation bodies rather than farmers. The reason , greylag can damage the vegetation within the reserve but it could be argued that is only a natural feature now greylags are starting to get up to their normal population before they were exterminated 100 years ago in lowland England. It tood 60 years of hard conservation work to build up the English population to a level where a reasonable harvest can be taken from them and now we are about to chuck all of it away in part thanks to BASC. As for why BASC is supporting this measure is anyone’s guess but they clearly have not thought this through and more likely just pandering favour from Natural England. Perhaps David BASC or another member of staff would like to publish BASCs reasons behind their decision. If anyone has a problem a tried and tested licence mechanism is already in place so why chance it unless its to save a few quid at the expense of a major quarry for many people. The worst of it is WAGBI are largely responsible for the birds re-introduction. Frankly I am gutted and very disapointed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 What is more frustrating is I got an email from BASC yesterday explaining there view and the PW system wont allow me to attach it so you can read it. Will work on it later when I have more time. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I emailed BASC on the subject of greylags/general licences yesterday. Communications were as follows. I said - Please remember BASC owes its existence to wildfowlers and WAGBI. I have yet to find one fowler who agrees with the greylag going on the general list. Have the balls to stand up for the interests of your core members. All wildfowl should be protected by the benefits of a close season. In East Anglia canadas used to be a main part of our sport - Now, due to recent changes, we hardly ever see one. Don't let this happen to greylags too. Dr Conor O'Gorman, Policy Development Manager of BASC replied - Dear Ben, Thanks for getting in touch with your comments. I am collating feedback on the consultation as well as pulling together the BASC response. BASC Council has decided its position, drawing on feedback from members, the Wildfowling Liaison Committee and the Gameshooting and Gamekeeping Committee. BASC's position is published here: http://basc.org.uk/blog/media/consultations/english-general-licences-consultation-have-your-say/ The key principle is less red tape for people when management is required for species to prevent serious problems occurring. There are over 20 English general licences covering various species from robins to geese. Evidence of damage is outlined for the various species affected by the proposals in the consultation documentation here: http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/regulation/wildlife/licences/wildlifelicensingconsultation.aspx From 2005-2011 there were 349 specific licences issued in England to destroy up to 90,448 greylag geese eggs and 457 specific licences to shoot or kill by injection 15,647 greylag geese. Most of these specific licences were to prevent serious damage to crops or to protect air safety. There is a low risk to migratory populations of greylags and the resident population is growing significantly. The short-term trend for non-migratory greylag geese shows an increase of 179%. Population estimate is 92,000. Fears for the Canada (sic) goose population were also expressed by a small number of members ahead of that species' addition to several general licenses in England and in Wales, and those fears have proven unfounded. Populations continue to grow and in fact bag returns have increased, and that includes on the Ouse Washes which has one of the largest Canada (sic) goose populations. The arguments against adding wildfowl to general licences are emotive arguments. Wildlife management should be objective and evidence based. Otherwise there would be no shooting at all. Best wishes Conor Dr Conor O'Gorman Policy Development Manager BASC So we are emotive and they know what they are talking about based on science - When have I heard that one before? Was it something to do with steel shot? Maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) And I have replied - Dear Conor, Sorry but I can't see why you are collating feedback when BASC has already made its decision. This decision is fundamental to the continuation of sustainable greylag fowling and should have been put to the vote of all fowling members of BASC before a decision was made. Have all associated fowling clubs been asked to make their views known? This is something that should be put to a referendum of all fowlers that you represent. Feelings are running very high on this issue. Regards Ben I think all fowlers should contact BASC and make their views very clear on this matter. BASC is there to represent its members - Not make decisions in-house that affect the future sporting activities of its members. They are supposed to represent us. Edited April 26, 2014 by Grandalf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) largest Canada (sic) goose populations excuse my ignorance but why is the spelling of Canada incorrect? Edited April 26, 2014 by artschool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Small c? As in robin and skylark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Dr O'Gorman has just replied - Dear Ben, There are many proposals in the consultation and seeing people's examples ideas and arguments is very helpful to the development of our own in our response. BASC does not hold referendums to make policy decisions. BASC holds elections for its members of council. Policy decisions are made by BASC council. Best wishes Conor Can't fault him for that or for answering on a Saturday afternoon. Still don't agree with the decision though. Get writing chaps - I've tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biddy Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 I have also been corresponding with Conor O Gorman for the best part of a week, I have had replys from him at 7.30 am and 9. 30 pm which is commendable but all the replys have been very similar to yours stating former concerns about Canada's and how the numbers are now up, and how there has been very little negative feed back and most correspondence with members has supportive. He also asks if my views are based on perceptions of some other shooters attitudes and of so is this divisive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) I am formulating something for Monday. NOT happy but I do believe its lead by the killers not the sportsmen of which there is a growing number in our ranks. How do you explain to a guy who has only had semi tame Mallard and pheasant chased over his head, he will likely see all GL inclusions as more sport. Lets be fair it happened with deer and the season extension for the self same reasons I suggest we all do as its no good speaking to the converted, ask who voted for what and lets remove them from the council Edited April 27, 2014 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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