Packham on Malta

[Fisherman Mike]

As Supergoose mentioned under the topic "Swallows" Packham has been filming the bird Massacres in Malta. Loathe him or love him you have to admit he's got some balls .!

 

 

http://www.chrispackham.co.uk/

 

 

 

I've been to Malta several times in spring to catch the bird Migration and these people are evil, confrontational and extremely aggressive.

 

You wouldn't believe what these ******** shoot. Goldcrest to Golden Eagle its all fair game if it fly's they shoot it.

 

If you feel as strongly about it as I do write or email your local MP and get make your friends aware of it too. This stance will only give our shooting credence as well.

 

Packham by the way accepts that shooting for pest control and conservation have a beneficial alliance.

[pegasus bridge]

I watched a few clips of his that he tweeted.

 

People in hides made out of pallets and junk every 50 yards of scrubland and shooting everything that moves is Definitley not my cup of tea. They don't do the shooting fraternity any favours that's for sure.

Edited May 5, 2014 by pegasus bridge

[bunnage]

Well done Packham, we should ALL support him . I have sent money to the cause to stop this evil practice.

Who has seen a Turtle Dove this year yet ? No Cuckooos heard here yet. Swallows low in numbers as well.

[Scully]

Not my cup of tea I must admit, and while I'll no doubt attract flak for this, I seriously doubt those in this country who shoot for no other reason than their own enjoyment, whether 'sport' or pest control, are in any position to criticise shooting practices in other countries.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Scully

[Fisherman Mike]

Not my cup of tea I must admit, and while I'll no doubt attract flak for this, I seriously doubt those in this country who shoot for no other reason than their own enjoyment, whether 'sport' or pest control, are in any position to criticise shooting practices in other countries.

Fair enough your entitled to your opinion but its British Summer migrants they are shooting, Turtle Doves, Cuckoos, Redstarts, Harriers. Rollers, Bee Eaters, Swallows, Swifts, Warblers, Egrets etc. etc. etc... absolutely nothing escapes the gun...

 

If more Sporting Shooters in this country expressed their disdain at these practices instead of the "I'm all right jack head in the sand attitude" it would do our own sport no end of good and show the anti shooting lobby that we really are conservationists.

 

Like it or not Packham and his Ilk and their followers, of which there are Millions nationwide carry real clout with Defra and if there is ever any addition or omission from the general list the consultative committee take great credence from representation of the RSPB and BTO.

 

Its absolutely fundamental that we express our views on this not just to save our shooting but moreover because I don't want my Grandchildren to grow up having never heard Turtle Dove or a Cuckoo..

[Scully]

Fair enough your entitled to your opinion but its British Summer migrants they are shooting, Turtle Doves, Cuckoos, Redstarts, Harriers. Rollers, Bee Eaters, Swallows, Swifts, Warblers, Egrets etc. etc. etc... absolutely nothing escapes the gun...

 

If more Sporting Shooters in this country expressed their disdain at these practices instead of the "I'm all right jack head in the sand attitude" it would do our own sport no end of good and show the anti shooting lobby that we really are conservationists.

 

Like it or not Packham and his Ilk and their followers, of which there are Millions nationwide carry real clout with Defra and if there is ever any addition or omission from the general list the consultative committee take great credence from representation of the RSPB and BTO.

 

Its absolutely fundamental that we express our views on this not just to save our shooting but moreover because I don't want my Grandchildren to grow up having never heard Turtle Dove or a Cuckoo..

I wish you well in your campaign but I won't be taking part.

What right do I have to tell people of other nations what they should and shouldn't be shooting when I, to the rabid disapproval of many in this country, shoot animals and birds in this country? I know nothing of the hunting traditions of Malta, but having visited that tiny island I can't think of much else they can hunt. For all I know the Maltese may have being doing this for centuries as a tradition. If this is indeed the case then I know only too well the effect so called modern society and it's holier than thou moralistic values has on traditional hunting practises.

To suggest my support will endear me, and what I do, to those who disapprove of what I do, or convince them to regard me as a serious conservationist, doesn't convince nor interest me I'm afraid.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Scully

[islandgun]

to be honest I'm thinking of moving my support from BASC to the RSPB following their lack of answers as to why Greylag and Mallard should be on the GL

[Grandalf]

Many years ago I and my two sons went to watch a shooting party on Malta.

They were shooting dragonflies!

[SneakyD]

I wish you well in your campaign but I won't be taking part.

What right do I have to tell people of other nations what they should and shouldn't be shooting when I, to the rabid disapproval of many in this country, shoot animals and birds in this country? I know nothing of the hunting traditions of Malta, but having visited that tiny island I can't think of much else they can hunt. For all I know the Maltese may have being doing this for centuries as a tradition. If this is indeed the case then I know only too well the effect so called modern society and it's holier than thou moralistic values has on traditional hunting practises.

To suggest my support will endear me, and what I do, to those who disapprove of what I do, or convince them to regard me as a serious conservationist, doesn't convince nor interest me I'm afraid.

I very much agree with this. To all the people saying that the Maltese should be forced to change their rules and laws, how do you feel about foreign directives that limit or ban your shooting?

Edited May 5, 2014 by SneakyD

[pegasus bridge]

I very much agree with this. To all the people saying that the Maltese should be forced to change their rules and laws, how do you feel about foreign directives that limit or ban your shooting?

Fair point.

[m3vert]

They were breaking their own laws as well as European laws! The videos showed a Montagu Harrier that had been shot ***!! They are a disgrace to shooters, pretty pathetic lot to be fair! Anything that flew was fair game, it's 2014 not 1914!!

I wish him all the success to get this lot banned from their spring shooting, until they can do so responsibly! The people of Malta ain't exactly very happy about it either!

[bunnage]

To Scully & Sneaky D & others who may think we should let the Maltese shoot & trap what they like.

We are not being hypocrites by trying to stop this indiscriminate slaughter. In this country we do not shoot rare , endangered birds. We monitor populations of birds & protect them when necessary , by law. Thankfully we also obey these laws. The Maltese do not obey the laws.

[poontang]

The Maltese do not obey the laws.

 

Surely that's a problem for the Maltese authorities to deal with?

 

The laws are in place, all they need to do is enforce them. I really don't think it's up to us, as 'foreign' shooters to tell the Maltese how to police their Island.

 

I would however agree that the hunting practices in Malta leave a lot to be desired, but ultimately they can only be restricted by the Maltese themselves.

[SneakyD]

To Scully & Sneaky D & others who may think we should let the Maltese shoot & trap what they like.

We are not being hypocrites by trying to stop this indiscriminate slaughter. In this country we do not shoot rare , endangered birds. We monitor populations of birds & protect them when necessary , by law. Thankfully we also obey these laws. The Maltese do not obey the laws.

Bunnage I do not for one second think you or Fisherman Mike are hypocrites, I believe you are passionate about conservation. And as Scully said in his/her opening line, which I quoted "I wish you well in your campaign" .

 

I think that what these Maltese shooters are doing, is sickening and wrong, but I do not believe that it is my place to enact laws for people living in a foreign country, or to ensure that the people of that country follow their existing laws.

[Penelope]

My views on this are replicated below.

 

 

Surely that's a problem for the Maltese authorities to deal with?

 

The laws are in place, all they need to do is enforce them. I really don't think it's up to us, as 'foreign' shooters to tell the Maltese how to police their Island.

 

I would however agree that the hunting practices in Malta leave a lot to be desired, but ultimately they can only be restricted by the Maltese themselves.

 

Bunnage I do not for one second think you or Fisherman Mike are hypocrites, I believe you are passionate about conservation. And as Scully said in his/her opening line, which I quoted "I wish you well in your campaign" .

 

I think that what these Maltese shooters are doing, is sickening and wrong, but I do not believe that it is my place to enact laws for people living in a foreign country, or to ensure that the people of that country follow their existing laws.

[FalconFN]

 

Surely that's a problem for the Maltese authorities to deal with?

 

The laws are in place, all they need to do is enforce them. I really don't think it's up to us, as 'foreign' shooters to tell the Maltese how to police their Island.

 

I would however agree that the hunting practices in Malta leave a lot to be desired, but ultimately they can only be restricted by the Maltese themselves.

I understand your point and somewhat agree but in this case the Maltese authorities are not dealing with it, and at some point someone has to step in not least because this type of shooting does not only effect Malta - migratory birds don't respect borders so these are the same birds that play an important part of the ecosystems of many other countries, including Britain. In that respect it is a different situation to wading in over something like bull fighting in Spain.

 

If Packham can highlight the problem and increase the pressure on the Maltese authorities then good for him.

[ack-ack]

I understand your point and somewhat agree but in this case the Maltese authorities are not dealing with it, and at some point someone has to step in not least because this type of shooting does not only effect Malta - migratory birds don't respect borders so these are the same birds that play an important part of the ecosystems of many other countries, including Britain. In that respect it is a different situation to wading in over something like bull fighting in Spain.

 

If Packham can highlight the problem and increase the pressure on the Maltese authorities then good for him.

 

 

Plus one to that brother.

 

 

 

I get a bit iffy if the weight of a cartridge exceeds that of the quarry.

[Blunderbuss]

I understand your point and somewhat agree but in this case the Maltese authorities are not dealing with it, and at some point someone has to step in not least because this type of shooting does not only effect Malta - migratory birds don't respect borders so these are the same birds that play an important part of the ecosystems of many other countries, including Britain. In that respect it is a different situation to wading in over something like bull fighting in Spain.

 

If Packham can highlight the problem and increase the pressure on the Maltese authorities then good for him.

Agreed, this affects us and the rest of Europe directly. This is a Mediterranean thing, I lived in Cyprus for a while and saw it there. Compared to UK, the coastal areas are rocky, barren and denuded of bird life outside peak migration times. During shooting season which seems to coincide with songbird migration, its like world war three all day long. In rural areas it seems as if every male between 8 and 80 is out with a shotgun. They also net them en masse too.

 

I don't know if they have any legal quarry lists but if they do it seems they are largely ignored. If it flies, it dies. I suspect this is replicated on all the Greek and other Mediterranean islands too. Unsporting, unethical and unsustainable IMHO.

 

I'm not one for interfering in people's sport generally if it doesn't affect others or have a big ecological impact. This is different though and I am sure it must have a significant impact on global populations of some species.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Blunderbuss

[islandgun]

Agreed, this affects us and the rest of Europe directly. This is a Mediterranean thing, I lived in Cyprus for a while and saw it there. Compared to UK, the coastal areas are rocky, barren and denuded of bird life outside peak migration times. During shooting season which seems to coincide with songbird migration, its like world war three all day long. In rural areas it seems as if every male between 8 and 80 is out with a shotgun. They also net them en masse too.

 

I don't know if they have any legal quarry lists but if they do it seems they are largely ignored. If it flies, it dies. I suspect this is replicated on all the Greek and other Mediterranean islands too. Unsporting, unethical and unsustainable IMHO.

 

I'm not one for interfering in people's sport generally if it doesn't affect others or have a big ecological impact. This is different though and I am sure it must have a significant impact on global populations of some species.

absolutely blunderbuss and falconFN. Birds know no boundaries and are our international responsibility. internationally we have rules governing things as diverse as ivory poaching and whaling why should migratory birds be different

[Eddie57]

I second falcon and blunderbuss, we all do our bit to protect and conserve what we already have and it would be a sad day when future generations loose what we take as granted. At the end of the day imagine a silent countryside, no songbirds or buzzards, kites, etc come on guys lets not bury our heads in the sand.

I have known this happens for some time there was a programme some years ago with Iolo Williams on S4C (welsh channel), his main aim was to hit the Maltese where it hurts...tourism, that was the only way he could see they're government acting. Unfortunately when this goes global all shooters irrelevant of country are likely to feel some ripples from the usual media bul##hit, it just gives the uneducated layman another reason to ban what we all love doing.

[scotslad]

Excuse my ignorance but is Malta part of the EU?

 

If it was this would be surely aggainst the EU birds directive, same as with the greeks so could be enforced that way. But when it comes to the EU and laws esp reguarding Fishing, shooting and Agriculture think we're the only stupid b uggers that actually obeys them.

 

Must admit don't agree with it, but also can see the point about telling other countries wot they can and can't do.

However if wot there doing is unstustainable then i think we do have a right to tell them wot to do esp if it affects other countries bird numbers which it does.

[sandspider]

Malta are in the EU. And it does break EU law - they do have an exemption to shoot certain birds, but they shoot anything whether they're allowed to or not.

 

I've met Chris Packham a few times - nice bloke, good sense of humour. I believe that the BBC wouldn't send him to film there (too political?) so he went off his own bat.