Brian May and the antis vs shooting

[Redgum]

We must find a way of balancing the scales before the soft majority turn this country into one great big out of control and bankrupt wildlife park. I am located slap bang in the middle of the badger cull zone were most of the anti's have, mainly through social media network info, concentrated their campaign. This, so far as the law is concerned, has been a major victory for the anti's, they may have not stopped the cull here but have stopped the government spreading it further. OK so even the members of pigeon watch are divided on the badger cull but the antis now know that they can disrupt what they don't agree with without a care, they can even break the law without conviction while the humble FAC/SGC just has to stand by to be insulted yet abide by the terms of his certificate.

The Antis have now turned to the Forestry commissions future wild boar cull, and with their new powers of being above the law how long will it be before its rabbits, deer and pigeons ( though slowly these are being affected in my area). Of course the antis eat lentils and those that do eat meat buy it in nice little vacuum packed bundles so have no connection with yesteryear when hunting was to feed your family. Are the Anti's so dumb that they don't realise that todays vac pacs drew breath at one time, all be it a stale one in a packed battery environment. I vote for Vinnie Jones being the environment minister to do some serious law changing and kick azz politics to let the law abiding countryman go about his business in peace.Can sense ever really return.

[Kes]

I would say that an organisation to represent all shooters, to buy and protect land and act rather more like a 'sanitised' version of the NRA in the US, would solve a few difficult problems.

It wont happen.

I am in danger of being too critical of BASC but when it comes down to livelihoods, Its axiomatic that Turkeys wouldn't vote for Christmas, BASC. CA,etc.

It will take a visionary to achieve what is needed and I dont see one in any of the orgs we have currently, sadly too much personal benefit argues against the amalgamation needed.

[Gimlet]

What it will take is politicians who are prepared to enforce the law. If Brian May wants to buy up bits of land and turn them into a Farthing Wood theme parks that's up to him. Its his money - more fool him. But when these retards disrupt people going about their lawful business; when they trespass and commit damage to property; when they issue threats of violence they are committing serious crimes and they should go to jail. Don't bother with BASC. What it needs is for thousands of people to write to their MP and their chief constable and demand to know when they propose to start doing the job we their employers pay them to do. And maybe we should float the rhetorical question: if you don't feel up to that job would you like us to start doing it for you?

[bostonmick]

I should not worry to much about mr may and his pals.the supermarkets are a bigger threat to live shooting.many of my farmer friends have had to stop shooting over food crops because the big shops have told them they do not want any pellets being found in the produce for fear of being sued.politics I am afraid.

[Redgum]

What it will take is politicians who are prepared to enforce the law. If Brian May wants to buy up bits of land and turn them into a Farthing Wood theme parks that's up to him. Its his money - more fool him. But when these retards disrupt people going about their lawful business; when they trespass and commit damage to property; when they issue threats of violence they are committing serious crimes and they should go to jail. Don't bother with BASC. What it needs is for thousands of people to write to their MP and their chief constable and demand to know when they propose to start doing the job we their employers pay them to do. And maybe we should float the rhetorical question: if you don't feel up to that job would you like us to start doing it for you?

 

The big problem is that we are now the minority in this changing world, its seems that politicians can regard or disregard law enforcement depending on the voting publics attitude to a subject.

[spanj]

I would say that an organisation to represent all shooters, to buy and protect land and act rather more like a 'sanitised' version of the NRA in the US, would solve a few difficult problems.

It wont happen.

I am in danger of being too critical of BASC but when it comes down to livelihoods, Its axiomatic that Turkeys wouldn't vote for Christmas, BASC. CA,etc.

It will take a visionary to achieve what is needed and I dont see one in any of the orgs we have currently, sadly too much personal benefit argues against the amalgamation needed.

Totally agree with you Kes

[Thunderbird]

What it will take is politicians who are prepared to enforce the law. If Brian May wants to buy up bits of land and turn them into a Farthing Wood theme parks that's up to him. Its his money - more fool him. But when these retards disrupt people going about their lawful business; when they trespass and commit damage to property; when they issue threats of violence they are committing serious crimes and they should go to jail. Don't bother with BASC. What it needs is for thousands of people to write to their MP and their chief constable and demand to know when they propose to start doing the job we their employers pay them to do. And maybe we should float the rhetorical question: if you don't feel up to that job would you like us to start doing it for you?

 

You have a good point there I think. Antis always shout louder than those who shoot. Even though many of us, in our own way, 'promote' shooting, we don't do it in quite the way antis promote their causes. Maybe it's not even possible....but maybe it is.

 

Hard one though, wish I had an answer.

[HDAV]

I should not worry to much about mr may and his pals.the supermarkets are a bigger threat to live shooting.many of my farmer friends have had to stop shooting over food crops because the big shops have told them they do not want any pellets being found in the produce for fear of being sued.politics I am afraid.

 

Indeed, they also had a hand in the badger cull that their suppliers were allegedly to reject access incase the press got wind of a story involving dead badgers and their brands......

[Scully]

 

You have a good point there I think. Antis always shout louder than those who shoot. Even though many of us, in our own way, 'promote' shooting, we don't do it in quite the way antis promote their causes. Maybe it's not even possible....but maybe it is.

 

 

You'll never know, unless you try.

[Redgum]

 

You have a good point there I think. Antis always shout louder than those who shoot. Even though many of us, in our own way, 'promote' shooting, we don't do it in quite the way antis promote their causes. Maybe it's not even possible....but maybe it is.

 

Hard one though, wish I had an answer.

 

The difference between the two groups is that the antis don't care and often have nowt to loose while the shooter is desperately trying to protect his license and he is usually a decent natured fellow otherwise he wouldn't have a license. During the badger cull in my area the shooters, who have been trained and are going about a legal activity, have had their cars tracked with magnetic trackers, spat at, called pedo's,family's victimised and rifles grabbed. The antis have set up camp on top of sets and even stamped on said sets to stop anything coming out (its illegal to tamper with a set) and openly trespassed while the plod look on. This has now spread via social media that antis can now work above the law and target all shooting sports. The word 'vigilante' is now being whispered in the public bars the farmers frequent in preparation for the next cull session in the autumn, maybe this is the only way.

[Redgum]

This topic has reminded me of a chap I used to work with many years ago on the nightshifts of our local factory, we'd play 3 card brag in the early hours. Vaughny was his name, a tank of a lad, it was a wonder his 150 vespa supported him and he wasn't fat either. He loved his dogs and he would be out on his nights off chasing most things with his lamp and mutts, in the daylight it was terriers after fox's and other underground dwellers.

Back then there was a big problem with the antis against the Ledbury hunt, the antis would give their supporters a coffee, burger and a fiver for the trouble. Vaughny would mingle with em, wash his burger down with the coffee and stuff the fiver into his back pocket before pullin the rounders bat from inside his parker and settin about the anti's. There were a few like him about back in the day but it certainly made the anti's think twice about giving the Ledbury hunt a hard time. The countryside has changed with second homeowners and lack of rural jobs and these fellas have mostly gone, the countryside just got soft.

[spinach]

This topic has reminded me of a chap I used to work with many years ago on the nightshifts of our local factory, we'd play 3 card brag in the early hours. Vaughny was his name, a tank of a lad, it was a wonder his 150 vespa supported him and he wasn't fat either. He loved his dogs and he would be out on his nights off chasing most things with his lamp and mutts, in the daylight it was terriers after fox's and other underground dwellers.

Back then there was a big problem with the antis against the Ledbury hunt, the antis would give their supporters a coffee, burger and a fiver for the trouble. Vaughny would mingle with em, wash his burger down with the coffee and stuff the fiver into his back pocket before pullin the rounders bat from inside his parker and settin about the anti's. There were a few like him about back in the day but it certainly made the anti's think twice about giving the Ledbury hunt a hard time. The countryside has changed with second homeowners and lack of rural jobs and these fellas have mostly gone, the countryside just got soft.

 

Charming.

I like a good persuasive argument!

John.

[Gimlet]

This topic has reminded me of a chap I used to work with many years ago on the nightshifts of our local factory, we'd play 3 card brag in the early hours. Vaughny was his name, a tank of a lad, it was a wonder his 150 vespa supported him and he wasn't fat either. He loved his dogs and he would be out on his nights off chasing most things with his lamp and mutts, in the daylight it was terriers after fox's and other underground dwellers.

Back then there was a big problem with the antis against the Ledbury hunt, the antis would give their supporters a coffee, burger and a fiver for the trouble. Vaughny would mingle with em, wash his burger down with the coffee and stuff the fiver into his back pocket before pullin the rounders bat from inside his parker and settin about the anti's. There were a few like him about back in the day but it certainly made the anti's think twice about giving the Ledbury hunt a hard time. The countryside has changed with second homeowners and lack of rural jobs and these fellas have mostly gone, the countryside just got soft.

 

That's the truth of it. The countryside has gone urban. It used to be full of country people, now its just full of people living in the countryside. You don't even hear the phrase "country people" any more. Now its " rural inhabitants". Its not the countryside, its "our" countryside. What was once a cultural inheritance is now Its a lifestyle choice. Its a nationalised public park.

[Thunderbird]

 

That's the truth of it. The countryside has gone urban. It used to be full of country people, now is just full of people living in the countryside. You don't even hear the phrase "country people" any more. Now its " rural inhabitants". Its not the countryside, its "our" countryside. What was once a cultural inheritance is now Its a lifestyle choice. Its a nationalised public park.

 

There are many elements of many walks of life you don't see any more, and that's not limited to the countryside. I believe the countryside should be available as a lifestyle choice for those prepared to embrace its principles, and not whinge about horse poo on the road and distant bangs of shotguns on Sundays. Not everyone who moves here is a 'townie' (in mentality as opposed to literal terms).

 

I grew up in the countryside, dad was a dairy/pig farmer, I have more country stories than you could shake a stick at but many people who meet me think I'm somewhat, well perhaps urbane isn't quite the right word but certainly not a yokel. To date I've spent approximately half my life living in a city and the other half out in the sticks. To be honest I've enjoyed both.

 

@Redgum I do take your wider point about your mate and the antis but I'm not sure I really want to live in a world where people can take baseball bats to other people.

 

In terms of combating the antis and paying them in their own coin, I wish I knew. Personally, whenever possible, I promote game, wild meat and shooting that way, it works pretty well.

[Catweazle]

 

That's the truth of it. The countryside has gone urban. It used to be full of country people, now its just full of people living in the countryside. You don't even hear the phrase "country people" any more. Now its " rural inhabitants". Its not the countryside, its "our" countryside. What was once a cultural inheritance is now Its a lifestyle choice. Its a nationalised public park.

My neighbours were chuffed when they found out I shoot, one of them complained "there are too many antis here now". It's true, there are many smallholdings that should be properly worked but just support 6 horses and a dog and the owners don't give a stuff about foxes, rabbits, pigeons or anything else. It would be OK if the vermin stayed on their own land, but of course it doesn't.

[Mentalmac]

My opposite neighbour was a staunched anti and she and I had a rather frank conversation about shooting and she told me that I shoot poor defenceless animals and wound animals and track them with dogs to kill them and all sorts - I showed her one of the bunny's I shot and asked her to describe how it was maimed and if it looked as though it had suffered - I also then explained what I do and how I do it and what the wider shooting community does and the conservation work employed by a lot of us also - in the end, she said "Well, it's not actually that bad - I certainly couldn't do it but appreciate you are doing the right thing.... certainly not what others had told me". (She was also at my neighbours BBQ I hosted and we get on fine now.

I believe that most anti's are believing a lot of nonsense made up about us all - they seem to assume we go about shooting rabbits in the legs and shouting 'ah hhaaahhh' whilst ripping their heads off in our teeth or something similar.

[Redgum]

 

There are many elements of many walks of life you don't see any more, and that's not limited to the countryside. I believe the countryside should be available as a lifestyle choice for those prepared to embrace its principles, and not whinge about horse poo on the road and distant bangs of shotguns on Sundays. Not everyone who moves here is a 'townie' (in mentality as opposed to literal terms).

 

I grew up in the countryside, dad was a dairy/pig farmer, I have more country stories than you could shake a stick at but many people who meet me think I'm somewhat, well perhaps urbane isn't quite the right word but certainly not a yokel. To date I've spent approximately half my life living in a city and the other half out in the sticks. To be honest I've enjoyed both.

 

@Redgum I do take your wider point about your mate and the antis but I'm not sure I really want to live in a world where people can take baseball bats to other people.

 

In terms of combating the antis and paying them in their own coin, I wish I knew. Personally, whenever possible, I promote game, wild meat and shooting that way, it works pretty well.

 

I totally agree with you there, I wouldn't want to be in a world where people take baseball bats to other people, they are far too heavy and hard to conceal that's why the lad used a rounder's bat

[Thunderbird]

 

I totally agree with you there, I wouldn't want to be in a world where people take baseball bats to other people, they are far too heavy and hard to conceal that's why the lad used a rounder's bat

 

[FalconFN]

 

That's the truth of it. The countryside has gone urban. It used to be full of country people, now its just full of people living in the countryside. You don't even hear the phrase "country people" any more. Now its " rural inhabitants". Its not the countryside, its "our" countryside. What was once a cultural inheritance is now Its a lifestyle choice. Its a nationalised public park.

This is very true but it us a trend that started many many years ago. Mechanisation and efficient farming methods have taken the farmworkers and their family's out of the equation, there just arent enough rural jobs anymore. I grew up in a village where the majority of the houses were occupied by farmworkers, ex farmworkers or the widows of farmworkers - including us, my dad was a blacksmith and farm labourer. The farm was the one thing that linked everyone together which created a real community, but since the 70s the number of workers has gone down and down with only a couple of farm workers left and several contracted in. The village used to be in the farm, now the farm is in the village.

 

But that is life, you can't go back to those days so educating those that automatically and unthinkingly object to guns/shooting/country sports is the only way - rounders bats aren't very good PR devices in my opinion.

(I should have said stool-ball bats, in this neck of the woods)

Edited May 22, 2014 by FalconFN

[pavman]

I have an on going battle with Anti (last 10 years) and Police (who are rubbish) but think I may have found a local soft spot so I am attacking there (politics)

 

Here is a thought..... WHY DONT THE SHOOTING PRESS RUN ANY STORIES ON ANTI, I contacted BASC press office to talk about it was promised a call back which never happened

[Gimlet]

This is very true but it us a trend that started many many years ago. Mechanisation and efficient farming methods have taken the farmworkers and their family's out of the equation, there just arent enough rural jobs anymore. I grew up in a village where the majority of the houses were occupied by farmworkers, ex farmworkers or the widows of farmworkers - including us, my dad was a blacksmith and farm labourer. The farm was the one thing that linked everyone together which created a real community, but since the 70s the number of workers has gone down and down with only a couple of farm workers left and several contracted in. The village used to be in the farm, now the farm is in the village.

 

But that is life, you can't go back to those days so educating those that automatically and unthinkingly object to guns/shooting/country sports is the only way - rounders bats aren't very good PR devices in my opinion.

(I should have said stool-ball bats, in this neck of the woods)

 

I agree. Unfortunately the argument that follows is: if the people who had the countryside in their DNA have disappeared along with agriculture then why should their out-dated practises like hunting and shooting continue?

Shooting is inextricably tied to agriculture and agriculture has taken a hammering in the last forty years - well, since the war really when it was effectively nationalised. Now it is controlled by supermarket cartels and politicians. The countryside has come to be viewed as a public resource with agriculture just one of many interests competing for its use. That isn't the inevitable march of modernity, that's completely muddled thinking. The countryside should primarily be about food production, especially with a rocketing population and scarcer food resources globally. We can't protect shooting without protecting agriculture and that can't be done without restoring the mindset that the countryside isn't a national park or a development blank canvas but the means by which we feed ourselves; and if we want to continue eating ourselves to death on 10% of our income we need to preserve it for its proper use.

[Redgum]

I have an on going battle with Anti (last 10 years) and Police (who are rubbish) but think I may have found a local soft spot so I am attacking there (politics)

 

Here is a thought..... WHY DONT THE SHOOTING PRESS RUN ANY STORIES ON ANTI, I contacted BASC press office to talk about it was promised a call back which never happened

 

Antis never seem to get the bad press they deserve, sorry to keep coming back to the badger cull but its been such a big thing in my area with police vans parked up in verges for 3 months last year and they have just started to show up again. The anti's have put tracking devices on vehicles, let out live stock, use extreme intimidation tactics to provoke, trespassed and cause many a breach of the peace with no arrests, most not from my area but from as far a field as the states. There have been many articles in the press and tv about the cull and how its been carried out, leaked official information and the NFU's handling of it, you will also find stacks on social media, but have NFU done any press releases on the £60,000 of traps illegally destroyed and all the rest of the antis illegal behaviour, no, not a squeak. Politics, the Tory's don't want to upset the farmers but more importantly they don't want to loose the vote of the masses which of course shooting sports aren't.

[scotslad]

Each to there own, if he has the money fair play and if thats wot he wants to do great.

 

Would be interesting to do a ecological survey now and another agian in 5/10 years time, i would happliy bet a lot of money be more varied wildlife about now than in 10 years, might be more wildlife in 10 years but bulk wil be vermin, corvids and grey squirrels.

 

If ur interested and have time look on the GWCT site about there study at Allerton, basically in 10 years strted from nothing to develop a decnt WILD bird shoot, through good managent and vermin control, after that they stopped vermin control or 5 years then after that stopped the feed hoppers for another 5.

Have now started the shoot again, i think generally farmland birdlife declined by 2/3rds over the 10 years and the habitat stayed the same

 

Not sure the scale of that shoot off Bettws hall (althou they are usually fairly grand) but 1 i know near us (big but not massive) needs to turn over £1 million every year to break even, thats all wages, desiel, feed, mechanics, beaters etc into local economy where not a great ammount of work. Thats not including all the accom/hotels/b&b's bar meals,, snacks at village shop etc

Some of the bigger well organised grouse moors will have 100 staff out on a big day, thats a lot of vehicles to manain and fuel plus a lot of folk coming into a remote area for the day.

 

Basically shooting brings in a LOT of moneyinto rural areas at a time of year when not usually a lot of work about, even the ammount of feed these shoots put out is massive

[norfolk dumpling]

Trouble is we are too nice - realise this is out of necessity - but if only we could get a high profile celeb on our case. There are plenty who shoot - we can all name a dozen - but none who have the "Briam May" factor. We also have the Royals on our side. Perhaps we need some sort of benefit concert sponsored by Jag/Landrover, funds to Help 4 Heros and any remotely supportive celebs performing. I'm see a future king or two might open it?? Thoughts?

[Gunman]

Need to become a "minority " Talk of rights talk of culture or form a "church " then we become protected have our aims and ways promoted in schools and no doubt given grants and have laws to discriminate in our favourer . Works for the travellers and gays .