Quandary - What calibre around .30 to go for?

[malkiserow]

Looking for a rifle larger than .243 (have a .243 already) to be a general purpose hunting rifle. Yes, I could make do with a newer and nicer .243 but I think I want more gun.

 

I don't do targets really and want to shoot deer and fox still.

 

So we could be looking at 6.5 55, .308, 7:08, 30:06, .270 etc

 

I do reload and plan to continue reloading whatever the calibre I go for.

 

I don't have a dog for tracking and want any deer to drop on the spot (as far as we can plan that!). Only <10% of the time will it be used on larger deer species.

 

I value all the venison so want to minimise meat damage.

 

My back can give me far too much gip so not wanting something that kicks like a mule, yes, a soft shooting gun.

 

What would you recommend (caliber, barrel length and twist rate and ideal bullet weight/type) and importantly, why?

[saddler]

.260 Rem

[Thunderbird]

Malk, I suggest you get in touch with Dave and Phil, both have 6.5s and can give you their impressions. I have fired both and I personally rate it as a round, but each to their own etc. I'm considering going for 6.5 as a one-up from 223.

[kyska]

What about the 25-06?

[theshootist]

I've not shot the 6.5 swede but its always described as a soft shooting cartridge. If you want to shoot 150gn soft points for deer and fox the .308 win is probably the best .30 cal, the .30-06 only offers advantage at heavier weights i.e.180 and 200gn.

 

7mm-08 will havs a trajectory advantage over .308 but you won't be able to walk into a shop and buy a box.

 

I like the .308, I don't find it damages meat too much and with the right bullet it has performed reliably on muntjac, roe, fallow and reds. Its good with shorter barrels too and is described as an inherently accurarte cartridge - whatever that means.

[malkiserow]

What about the 25-06?

What are its virtues?

[welshwarrior]

308 would be my choice good with regards meat damage and a very predictable trajectory not the flattest.

 

I tried a 6.5x55 at the PW meet found it very smooth and nice to shoot I want to play more with it but after 2 shots I can't recommend it.

Edited May 23, 2014 by welshwarrior

[kent]

Looking for a rifle larger than .243 (have a .243 already) to be a general purpose hunting rifle. Yes, I could make do with a newer and nicer .243 but I think I want more gun.

 

I don't do targets really and want to shoot deer and fox still.

 

So we could be looking at 6.5 55, .308, 7:08, 30:06, .270 etc

 

I do reload and plan to continue reloading whatever the calibre I go for.

 

I don't have a dog for tracking and want any deer to drop on the spot (as far as we can plan that!). Only <10% of the time will it be used on larger deer species.

 

I value all the venison so want to minimise meat damage.

 

My back can give me far too much gip so not wanting something that kicks like a mule, yes, a soft shooting gun.

 

What would you recommend (caliber, barrel length and twist rate and ideal bullet weight/type) and importantly, why?

 

Use a cannon of a gun and a lot of deer still wont drop on the spot to a chest shot, its doubtful the run is even shortened. Understand the deer is only dead when blood supply to the brain ends for a period of seconds. If you must swap from .243 win then a 6.5mm is best on bullet availability 95 v-max is available as a fox bullet and recoil energy is less with a lighter bullets on deer than that normally best used in the 30 cals etc. I used 7-08 rem and .308 / 30-06 quite a bit on deer there isn't much between those three. Trajectory is meaningless from a 100 yards zero your looking at 3 MOA low at 300 for almost all of them and that's too far to shoot a deer during a sporting stalk, the clue to the sport is in the name deerstalking. Even if you can guarantee the required accuracy the deer only needs to take a step at the wrong moment (been there done that one). Any deer legal calibre will stay within the heart lung kill zone of a Roe by going to the top of the zone on the longer shots say 200 yards from a 100 yards zero, loopy is only applicable at longer ranges and smaller targets

Venison damage is more down to the bullet choice and placement than the calibre, Try the 100 grn Nosler Partition in the .243 win and prove it to yourself. There is much bumkum spoken about meat wrecking "calibres" and shortening runs with bigger heavier bullets. Frankly I have seen deer make 100 yards with wounds so severe you cant credit how they could physically take a single step, but then again they also run slap bang into trees and walls etc. fact is they were running dead, Its just the legs hadn't yet got that information

The .243 win is often criticised by those who lack real experience with the gun or with shooting a lot of deer, listening to others the same. The biggest factor in all quick DRT kills is placement and the Deer being calm and unaware of any danger. release of adrenalin is bad for the meat and tends to increase the duration of a run.

Edited May 24, 2014 by kent

[Harnser]

As said earlier ,dont fanny around and get a .308 winchester and like me stick with a 150 grain bullet that I have been shooting for many years . It has never let me down . You will have enough gun to address anything that you are likely to want to shoot . 150 grain soft point driven by 45 grains of vit 140 and you will have a bullet that will stop anything in its track travelling at about 2800 ft per second . I just dont see any sense in using a calibre that may be marginal on a big deer when you can use the venerable but deadly .308 . You will see and read about all the fancy bullets that are available but the 150 grain spire point soft nose is the deadly one .

 

Harnser.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Harnser

[Redgum]

As said earlier ,dont fanny around and get a .308 winchester and like me stick with a 150 grain bullet that I have been shooting for many years . It has never let me down . You will have enough gun to address anything that you are likely to want to shoot . 150 grain soft point driven by 45 grains of vit 140 and you will have a bullet that will stop anything in its track travelling at about 2800 ft per second . I just dont see any sense in using a calibre that may be marginal on a big deer when you can use the venerable but deadly .308 . You will see and read about all the fancy bullets that are available but the 150 grain spire point soft nose is the deadly one .

 

Harnser.

 

Yep 308 is the one, moderates well, I'd say my 308 is quieter than the 243,(same case, bigger hole) which both have atec maxims on em. Easy to reload with plenty of bullets to choose from. My 308 tikka with bell and Carlson stock is my lightest rifle yet its not a mule to shoot. Easy on barrels to.

[Underdog]

308 from here too, it is a very efficient cartridge, if recoil gets too much and most your shots are under 200yds get some Speer 130 or 150grn flat points, these are designed for 30/30 velocities and load them at 30/30 velocities.

There is of course lots of 30/30 Marlins! I shot a bunch o' deer with 30/30.

 

How far yer wanting to shoot?

 

U.

[malkiserow]

308 from here too, it is a very efficient cartridge, if recoil gets too much and most your shots are under 200yds get some Speer 130 or 150grn flat points, these are designed for 30/30 velocities and load them at 30/30 velocities.

There is of course lots of 30/30 Marlins! I shot a bunch o' deer with 30/30.

 

How far yer wanting to shoot?

 

U.

 

 

200 yds is all I need...... I've shot many at 60 to 100!

 

I am not sure on the trajectory difference in all the choices that exist.

 

More point and shoot is good!

[Harnser]

If you want something different ,how about the .303 British . A fabulous stalking round .

 

Harnser

[Harnser]

200 yds is all I need...... I've shot many at 60 to 100!

 

I am not sure on the trajectory difference in all the choices that exist.

 

More point and shoot is good!

 

At those ranges trajectory is not a concern.

Harnser

[Underdog]

 

 

200 yds is all I need...... I've shot many at 60 to 100!

 

I am not sure on the trajectory difference in all the choices that exist.

 

More point and shoot is good!

That is the reason why I went to a levergun in 30/30 years ago, all my deer were close and I found the shotgun styled stock of a Win94 very quick and nice to carry.

 

 

And yes 303British! Some nice sporter Enfields out there and quite cheap usually!

[Harnser]

That is the reason why I went to a levergun in 30/30 years ago, all my deer were close and I found the shotgun styled stock of a Win94 very quick and nice to carry.

 

 

And yes 303British! Some nice sporter Enfields out there and quite cheap usually!

My early days stalking in the early sixties was done with a sportarised .303 SMLE with military ball ammo and open sights . My old mentor used to say " them telescopes on rifles will never catch on " . I bet that 30/30 would have handled like a shot gun without a scope .

Harnser.

[Underdog]

My early days stalking in the early sixties was done with a sportarised .303 SMLE with military ball ammo and open sights . My old mentor used to say " them telescopes on rifles will never catch on " . I bet that 30/30 would have handled like a shot gun without a scope .

Harnser.

It did sir, I shot it for a while on a Williams FP. Only put glass on it due to the little monkeys coming out on dark! Only have glass now because my eyes are to long sighted and to tight to buy a tang sight!

 

Just before I glassed my 357 I got this nice 80yarder.

 

U.

[wraivi]

Have you considered a 7x57?

Also a very versatile low recoil round, with an excellent reputation.

Check out its characteristics.

[Dougy]

How about a 9.3x62 (.366)

 

I shoot 30.06 and as all ready stated, the 308 is level on all until you start to get to the heavier weight bullets, if you intend to travel in the future then also consider were you may go, 30.06 will not be allowed in some European country's due to it being a military cal (may change in the near future)

 

Meat damage in my opinion is due to the speed at which the bullets strikes together with the construction, of all the carcasses i have butchered the less meat damage has been with the larger heavier bullets. That was one of the reasons i shoot a 30 and not 243.

[Dekers]

You will/have a number of suggestions, but the .308 is still popular because it works and is versatile.

 

Don't discount the common calibres!

[kent]

How about a 9.3x62 (.366)

 

I shoot 30.06 and as all ready stated, the 308 is level on all until you start to get to the heavier weight bullets, if you intend to travel in the future then also consider were you may go, 30.06 will not be allowed in some European country's due to it being a military cal (may change in the near future)

 

Meat damage in my opinion is due to the speed at which the bullets strikes together with the construction, of all the carcasses i have butchered the less meat damage has been with the larger heavier bullets. That was one of the reasons i shoot a 30 and not 243.

 

A valid point it is impact speed and construction of the bullet and I agree wholeheartedly with this, it is easy to answer with the .243 win but takes more than a passing knowledge of what a bullet looks like. Having also used and owned 30s and 7mm rifles I can confirm wrong bullet, wrong impact speed has the same results . It also cuts the other way when you get out there a long way though bullets can fail to expand this is beyond the realms of the thread though.

The big forgotten factor is placement, very few can shoot a 140-150 grain bullet as well from improvised field stances including free hand as well as they can a smaller lighter one. This is due to recoil management which is harder than it appears with a relative lightweight stalking rifle. The problem them becomes one of placement "right bullet wrong place"

 

The OP said

" My back can give me far too much gip so not wanting something that kicks like a mule, yes, a soft shooting gun."

 

Under those circumstances I should choose a lighter gun first and for most, at less than 200 yards if it were legal for his quarry and area I should even look towards the legal .224 bullets used with great discipline. Failing that sticking with the ,243 win (the smallest all deer legal) as recoil energy is directly linked to weight of bullet. This can be noticed if the op shoots a few 55 grain bullets from his existing .243 then a few 100 grain bullets off hand unsupported on paper. Increasing bullet weight to 150 with the same weight rifle will give similar increases again, dropping the rifle and scope weight substantially and sticking to .243 win might be a far smarter move if he can tolerate a little more recoil. Also consider loosing the moderator and adding ear plugs it will add back some recoil but make things substantially lighter to handle

Don't want to sound a big girl about recoil but if you look at the calibres preferred at international sniper / tactical matches 6.5 mm and 6mm are incredibly popular for this reason

 

30/30 might be a decent choice in the woods, never tried it personally always fancied it though but out on the hills for Red and Sika etc.?

Edited May 25, 2014 by kent

[kent]

Been to many recently?

 

Not fired a round competitively in over 5 years, never make a secret over that- it is all in my past. I have over 1000 yards available off my own driveway were I can compete against myself and the conditions at will, far more challenging than traveling miles to listen to BS in the clubhouse and fire just a few rounds. Always been a hunter first and for most, there are few UK shooters who can rank worldwide with a rifle and you aint one of them In my opinion / experiance.

[Dougy]

How many Deer are shot on an average outing I would hazard a guess at 3 for a pay day stalker if your lucky, so would recoil be that much of an issue compared to what the shooter wants. 30s don't differ that much from a 12g recoil wise, particularly whilst stalking. Totally different kettle of fish compared to bench shooting. I could let off 5 shot's at boar in just about as many seconds, ask me to do the same off a bench and I'll tell you to go whistle.

[Underdog]

Recoil or rather the negative feelings toward it are often linked to shooting from a target bench rested position. The body is leaned into the rifle and the shoulder gets the lot without the rest of the body being able to move.

If you can while developing loads etc. Pack the bench or rifle up so the shooter can shoot with a more upright back, then under recoil the body can rock back some the spine acting as a shock absorber and not just the shoulder.

Also I found a small newspaper down the jacket for rifle testing helps, it stops the pad digging in...spreads the load.

For the big boomers I always shoot off hand, I am not afraid to call any bad shots and am happy with knowing it is sighted to get the job done. However I have only ever shot a few big boomers under invite and after watching others persecute themselves shooting them benched it is I think a recipe to develop a bad flinch. I like the bigger rounds like 30-06 and up, they are more of a long push shot off hand and in fact find the 308 snappy in recoil, not a problem just snappy. Probably a lot to do with it's use of what I call medium speed powders over the slower ones

 

On the 30/30. The longest red I ever shot was 200yds or there abouts, most were under 100yds however not many.

Had a bit more hair then!

I love 30/30, 30grns or so of powder and very pleasant to shoot, bullets don't try to destroy themselves just penertrate, the levergun is brill for follow up shots...did I say I love 30/30

 

U.

 

Just noticed that come out wrong....the longest red ever...not just with a 30/30!

Edited May 25, 2014 by Underdog

[Dougy]

What I'm trying to put across is the actaul felt recoil from a calibre that malkisero was asking ahout, he is worried about his back problem and would certain calibres be better than other's. If you're only shooting say 6 shots all day would that cause much distress to the shooter bearing in mind it needs to be big enough and accurate enough to drop it pretty quickly.

 

You could always shoot a little forward and take out the shoulders, that will put it down.