DNT Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Just for the record KWCA members are under no illusions about their conduct when shooting at Thornham or any other area they are on. KWCA members will not venture anywhere near the sand/roost. Discussions with NE regarding consent bought to the fore several points which all parties wished to address. We are an experienced club and we have no intention of overshooting anywhere and certainly are not in the business of driving birds from the area. As we do on all of our shooting areas we take a very responsible attitude to the conduct of our members, insisting on a sporting attitude at all times. We take very seriously any breach of rules or just poor conduct. Consequently we get very few issues because our members appreciate what they have and try very hard to help us set good examples and high standards, the club goes from strength to strength and as more people see what we have to offer we will continue to see all of our sections grow. I am saddened to hear the report by stalkerboydy, and whilst I accept his account of what must have happened, I have serious doubts if it was our members. We have received reports (unconfirmed) over the last couple of years of shots being heard on the marsh when we have no permits issued. I make no allegations, just an observation. We did step up our security last season and will continue to do so in the future as more local Wildfowlers join us. I can also confirm that Mr. Betts will not hesitate to prosecute anyone who is on the marsh with a firearm who is not a member of KWCA or a common right holder. I am also saddened to hear that the RSPB are unhappy with us. When we took over the shooting we held a meeting at Titchwell with RSPB managers and felt they were very happy with our plans for the marsh (particularly as they had been informed that KWCA has over 500 members ) and all were coming to Thornham on the first day, a slight exaggeration on my part, but not far from the truth. Once they had held talks with us they said they were very happy with the situation. Telephone numbers were exchanged with the agreement if they were unhappy with anything they would contact us to discuss the issue. At present no such request for discussion as been made. I don't know how to express more strongly that you have nothing to fear from KWCA, yes we will pursue opportunities when they arise, that as someone already said Fits Our Business Plans, but not without taking many things into account, not least will the land be lost to Wildfowling. In Kent we have to negotiate leases new and old, and yes we have lost some over time that we have held in excess of 20 years, and although we have lots of areas to shoot, it still hurts and particularly the members who live near and shoot those areas. We must face the fact that shooting is not at present in favour with everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Boat Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 So DID KWA TRY AND BUY INTO BRANCASTER COMMON RIGHTS THROUGH A BACK DOOR !!!!!!!! or is that confidential Well DNT Do you confirm or deny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmyra608 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Well DNT Do you confirm or deny? +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 DNT 100% it was Kent members. As most fowlers who injoy shooting Pinks under the moon know when feeding close to the Marsh they often return to the Marsh during the day. Kent members having shot the moon then stayed on the Marsh during the day sleeping in cars until they hear Pinks fighting. Oh and Leigh on Sea members have done the same. I've asked this before would Kent been interested if there was no Pinks there !!! And what happened at Shellness/Sheppey when 1200 Whitefronts turned up 3 seasons !!!! People everywhere and certainly a lot of shooting for not many Geese. Who was doing this Norfolk people NO Kent members Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I did not realise untill this discussion started that there were so many small clubs in Norfolk would it not be better to have one large club so that you had a bigger voice and bank balance to fight off any threats from where ever they come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncher Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I did not realise untill this discussion started that there were so many small clubs in Norfolk would it not be better to have one large club so that you had a bigger voice and bank balance to fight off any threats from where ever they come from.These thoughts have been crossing my mind too of a lot closer ties between all the east coast clubs to have a stronger position to deal with any threat that arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Boat Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 As Chairman of the Wash joint council I assure you we have close ties with all the clubs in Norfolk as we do with the Essex joint council and the Humber joint Council and have in the past organised and run our own East coast conferances. Ihave to admit though we catastrophically faild to see the enemy within a mistake we will never make again dispite receiving numerous solicitors letters threatening legal action from Mr Jarrett (Presumably paid fo by Kent Wildfowlers) over a confidential letter sent to John Swift (Then Cheif executive of BASC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double four Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Well DNT this all seems to have gone conveniently quiet as soon as brancaster got mentioned but as I am CL65 common right holder can you answer scolopax and houseboats question and now mine re kent's back door approach to the common right registration through a charity Edited June 21, 2014 by Double four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Well DNT this all seems to have gone conveniently quiet as soon as brancaster got mentioned but as I am CL65 common right holder can you answer scolopax and houseboats question and now mine re kent's back door approach to the common right registration through a charity I think it's nice DNT has taken the time to write such detailed posts but it would be nice to get the answer to this question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double four Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Confirm or deny DNT ? simple question as you seem to be kents mouthpiece ?? Edited June 21, 2014 by Double four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNT Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think it a bit unusual and slightly surprising that following mine and Houseboats comments about confidential club business being discussed on the forum some of you seem obsessed by this continued line of questioning. For the record I repeat, we are often approached directly by land owners, agents, clubs and others about various possible ventures from all around the UK. Some of these are no go from the outset, others require more discussion and investigation, many fall by the wayside during investigation. At any one time we have several discussions ongoing covering all of the enquiries that come in from all around. I would not consider any confirmation or denial of any discussions real or imagined anywhere with anyone except the people involved. KWCA always announces any arrangements, purchases, leases etc. to the world at the appropriate time, when the matters are complete. You will obviously read into this post as you see fit, but rest assured there will be no discussion on private club business concerning any issue until the appropriate times. If some others would put as much effort into their own affairs as they would ours, they to might be in a stronger position than they are at present. Finally comments have been made elsewhere about BASC and they involvement or lack of in our activities. Let me state clearly we discuss many issues with BASC and use their facilities (that's why we are affiliated to them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double four Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) I am involved dnt as I am a common right holder on the said marsh BRANCASTER you are trying to get on using or masquerading as a charity so now can you tell me or do you need to run to Alan for advice ? Edited June 22, 2014 by Double four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 I have always defended Kents willingness to buy land for the security of wildfowling, and have had many a debate with Robert etc over the last couple of seasons. But if what is being hinted at on this thread and Kent are trying to what is basically cheating and stealing land from under the noses of other fowlers by getting third parties to pretend to buy it, well that would be a disgrace and a totally shameful way of securing land. DNT you have come on hear to defend Kent and put their side of the argument and I am grateful, but you cannot just then say we will tell you nothing until it suits you, it really does make you and your club look bad and that would be a shame as I think your clubs ideal of buying land and being open to all is the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think it a bit unusual and slightly surprising that following mine and Houseboats comments about confidential club business being discussed on the forum some of you seem obsessed by this continued line of questioning. For the record I repeat, we are often approached directly by land owners, agents, clubs and others about various possible ventures from all around the UK. Some of these are no go from the outset, others require more discussion and investigation, many fall by the wayside during investigation. At any one time we have several discussions ongoing covering all of the enquiries that come in from all around. I would not consider any confirmation or denial of any discussions real or imagined anywhere with anyone except the people involved. KWCA always announces any arrangements, purchases, leases etc. to the world at the appropriate time, when the matters are complete. You will obviously read into this post as you see fit, but rest assured there will be no discussion on private club business concerning any issue until the appropriate times. If some others would put as much effort into their own affairs as they would ours, they to might be in a stronger position than they are at present. Finally comments have been made elsewhere about BASC and they involvement or lack of in our activities. Let me state clearly we discuss many issues with BASC and use their facilities (that's why we are affiliated to them). Are you a politician by any chance? Geez pal I wish you just answered the question about the charity thing to clarify all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNT Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Not sure if the politician bit was a compliment, I suspect not. No I'm not, some of my friends are. I have stated already that we are approached by many people from individuals, clubs and other third party agents. Many of these wish complete confidentiality regarding discussions, some even requiring Confidentiality Agreements to be signed, and who could blame them, for many the mere fact that they talk to us would result in who knows what problems for them. Not withstanding the legal conditions with breaking such agreements where they exist, we will not discuss any club Confidential Business until the proper time, frustrating though that may be. If that is not a good/clear enough answer then I fear there is nothing more I can add at present, other than to say that whatever we do, wherever we do it we are not taking shooting from any existing clubs. As with Thornham if it's already lost and we are in a position to help in any way we can, then we will. If we are approached from outside the club system, we will talk, and yes that will sometimes be in partnership and sometimes on our own. Help and assistance comes in many forms and arrangements, but the winner will be Wildfowling for everyone who wants to be involved. There was a comment earlier about groups and joint councils, sounds great, but in practice there are many who feel that deals have been done which at best would not be in the spirit of the agreements and at worst are completely ignored by some clubs direct gain approach, and I don't mean KWCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Not sure if the politician bit was a compliment, I suspect not. No I'm not, some of my friends are. I have stated already that we are approached by many people from individuals, clubs and other third party agents. Many of these wish complete confidentiality regarding discussions, some even requiring Confidentiality Agreements to be signed, and who could blame them, for many the mere fact that they talk to us would result in who knows what problems for them. Not withstanding the legal conditions with breaking such agreements where they exist, we will not discuss any club Confidential Business until the proper time, frustrating though that may be. If that is not a good/clear enough answer then I fear there is nothing more I can add at present, other than to say that whatever we do, wherever we do it we are not taking shooting from any existing clubs. As with Thornham if it's already lost and we are in a position to help in any way we can, then we will. If we are approached from outside the club system, we will talk, and yes that will sometimes be in partnership and sometimes on our own. Help and assistance comes in many forms and arrangements, but the winner will be Wildfowling for everyone who wants to be involved. There was a comment earlier about groups and joint councils, sounds great, but in practice there are many who feel that deals have been done which at best would not be in the spirit of the agreements and at worst are completely ignored by some clubs direct gain approach, and I don't mean KWCA. Ok I appreciate you taking the time to reply and that things are confidential but surely you can understand how it must look regarding the charity rumour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riptide Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Houseboat I reckon we had better chat yet again dont you think ! I will give you a ring !,I have recently had a word with Paul but mainly about NE and the greys !I will private message you on wildfowl forum if thats OK . Riptide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Boat Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Thats fine riptide speak to you soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshooting Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 The difficult thing to remember is that we're all Wildfowlers, especially if, like me, your shooting been ''purloined''. But we are. The only people who care a **** for us, is us. DNT is no friend of mine, but neither is he, as a person, an enemy. I do seriously think he should be thanked for trying to explain Kents views, be they good, bad or indifferent. Kent now have a foothold in Norfolk, they will expand that foothold, he could easily afford to ignore the lot of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNT Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Steady Bobshooting, people will start to wonder. On a serious note I agree with you entirely, I do not consider any wildfowler or for that matter anybody an enemy, until they are identified as the enemy. I am well aware that some see the KWCA as just that, but their mistaken and I hope in time we will be able to show that by deed and action. There are many people working tirelessly at local and national level and in the not too distant future we will hopefully see the benefit of this work. I have said before don't be too quick to judge, look at the big picture and give the new team at BASC a chance, and please as Bob said, remember we are all Wildfowlers. We will only succeed together in a fast moving and changing world, and yes that changing world will reach the coast of Norfolk and everywhere else around the UK eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Quote " I hope in time we will be able to show that by deed and action" its your deeds and action that we have seen and so far I see nothing good comming from them. Quote "We will only succeed together in a fast moving and changing world, and yes that changing world will reach the coast of Norfolk and everywhere else around the UK eventually." Well its comming a lot faster thanks to your clubs deeds. Your club and nobody else is responsible for the friction building up on this part of the coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono 4 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 according to the charity commission the wild spaces fund lists it's activities as "CONSERVATION OF NATURE AND WILDLIFE AT OUR 6 RESERVES AT COOLING, ISLE OF GRAIN, IWADE, HALLING, MOTNEY HILL AND WESTBERE IN KENT}". and operates in Kent and Medway, so why is it buying common rights at Brancaster?, if not to take over Wildfowling currently controlled by two other clubs through the back door. How can the Kent Wildfowlers expect "to show by deed and action" ? well in following this course of action the club has nailed its colours firmly to the mast. No clubs ground can been seen as safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNT Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 anser2, I have already stated my understanding of the loss of your prime shooting ground and the obvious hurt and disappointment you feel. But let's be honest here please. Those of us involved in the Thornham saga know the truth. Thornham had held those shooting rights for a long time. Well before your agreement came to an end the owner approached the club stating that he would be looking for a more commercial return from a lease in the future. I don't know what your club management did at that time to address the situation, but I do know you were offered assistance by the local Wildfowling community, which you declined, preferring to proceed on your own. That of course is your prerogative. You then engaged a professional to assist with a plan. That plan was to do some kind of deal with the RSPB which would have meant less and more restrictions on your shooting (and believe me more would have followed). An offer was then made to the owner which was deemed to be way below advice he had received on the value. Others were then invited to tender and come for interview. There then followed a short list who were invited to give a presentation to the owner and his agent, to show how they managed their affairs and how they would manage Thornham (including an inclusive approach to the local guys). This point seemed particularly important to the owner, and fitted our plans as well. From that short list we were chosen and we have been in negotiations with many different people ever since. The fact is anser2 the ball was in your court from the beginning, you had exclusive discussions with the owner, you were not affiliated to BASC, you turned down offers from local clubs and worst of all in my opinion you struck a deal with a group that given half a chance would stop shooting and particularly Wildfowling in an instant. I know you all talk about your relationship at a local level, well try to think nationally before you decide who are your real friends. The bottom line is your club (I have assumed you are a member or at least very close to them) made some bad decisions albeit in good faith and that has cost you your shooting at Thornham. I say again we are an inclusive club and have had very many messages from people who believe we kept Thornham open to Wildfowling. I said at the beginning of this post, we understand your hurt and loss, but surely it's time to accept at least some of the blame and stop making accusations that you know are at best mistaken and at worse misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono 4 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 DNT you seem to have ignored my post and chosen to answer Ansers, maybe what I have said is a little too close to the truth, is it because the clubs are not affiliated to BASC you feel your clubs actions can be justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNT Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Jono4, I am sorry you feel I have ignored you, but there is only so much time I can spend on this or any other forum. You point out that WSF is a charity. As such it must pass the rigorous tests that this involves. One must assume the charity commission are satisfied with the aims of WSF. On the matter of do we feel it's alright to target clubs who are not BASC affiliated. Firstly we have not targeted any club whatsoever, BASC affiliated or not. I merely make the comment in order to remind everyone that by choosing not to be you cut out one very big aid when you find yourself in a difficult situation. It is not for me or anyone else to insist that clubs should affiliate, but if you don't., you are taking a big chance. Whether you like BASC or not, nobody can deny the vast range of specialist they have at their disposal. We all except that not everything is how we would like it to be at BASC, but I am confident that with the new CEO and now Chairman in place we will see more good than bad. Incidentally I also think that BASC often get the blame for matters way beyond their control, sure they have also got things wrong in the past, but they deserve some credit for their efforts when the odds are stacked very much against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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