johnnythefox70 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I have a question for the legally talented here goes:I bumped into an old friend who was a keen shooter for years until he was sentenced to 5 years imprisonment for a knife assault. Right (please don't judge him as only i know the real reason he did it) could i technically go to a clay shoot and let him use my gun under supervision? (Sec21 firearms act say not to possess doesn't say must not to use) He's rehabilitated and has Totally turned his life around. Don't know the law on this so before i ask him i need to know what i intend to do is 100% legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parapilot Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 No, he's not allowed to handle firearms for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamey Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I'm not familiar with your legislation, but do believe anything over three years inside results in a lifetime ban and the offender is not allowed to handle a firearm. I hope someone familiar with your laws drops by soon but I am 99.9 per cent certain that your friend would not be able to use your or anyone else's firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) https://www.cpsa.co.uk/userfiles/file/Booklet_2_June_2005.pdf THE LAW Unless all persons attending the shoot are shotgun certificate holders, a police permit under Section 11(6) of the Firearms Act 1968 (commonly referred to as an 11(6) exemption permit), is required to allow non - certificate holder s to acquire ammunition and be in possession of a shotgun under supervision. The permit application should be made to the Firearms Licensing Division of the local county police. The police may wish to inspect the site and are likely to apply National Go verning Body guidelines (i.e. CPSA minimum safety requirements) in making their decision. The permit is issued in the name of an individual who is responsible for the supervision of all non - certificate holders using guns. Ammunition may be sold under an 11(6) certificate, but not removed from the site by non - certificate holders. Very small private events at which non - certificate holders are present may take place with the landowner’s permission in his/her (or appointees) presence, provided that this pers on is a certificate holder under Section 11(5) of the Firearms Act 1968. In practice, the CPSA would not recommend that this exemption is used unless the event is non - commercial and is of a very small size. Shoot operators also have a duty in law to ensu re that persons banned from owning or being in possession of a shotgun do not shoot. It is best practice for the ground to sign - in all non - shotgun certificate holders shooting within the 11(6) permit under a Section 21 declaration. This would state: I th e undersigned declare that I am not a person prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition under Section 21 of the firearms act 1968. The act prohibits anyone who has had a custodial sentence of three months or more from for a period of five years, or if the sentence is over three years a ban for life on owning or possessing a shotgun. Any event that is commercial (and this includes charity events) and that has more than five persons deemed to be employees (whether paid or not) must have a written ri sk assessment. This will include a First Aid assessment and any risks associated with young persons (aged under 18 years). The written risk assessment should be summarised in a Safety Policy Statement prepared by the shoot operator. Help with this can b e obtained from the local council Health and Safety Executive in their leaflet entitled 5 Steps to Risk He can NOT shoot :no: Edited June 10, 2014 by Tam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I love the comment - don't judge him - I know why he did it etc. I don't care why he did it and am impressed that he has turned his life around, but 5 years for a knife offence tells me all I need to know. He has no place near firearms and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 If sentenced to a term of 3 years or more a person would be by the terms of the firearms act, a prohibited person. He would not be allowed posession of any firearm whatsoever for life. To possess does not mean own. It means that the firearm is under his care or control. If you let him use your gun, albeit at a clay ground with the exemption, he would in the legal sense of the Act be committing an offence, as would you, as he would be deemed to be exercising care or control over the firearm whilst he was using, or even holding it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I love the comment - don't judge him - I know why he did it etc. I don't care why he did it and am impressed that he has turned his life around, but 5 years for a knife offence tells me all I need to know. He has no place near firearms and rightly so. a 100% +1 , 5 years is a very long time so the offence must have been very serious indeed, glad all is fine with him now but I certainly would not want to be any where near him with a firearm in his hand,,well unless I was inside a tank atb Evo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 What if the man was defending a pregnant woman from a violent attack, and he managed to turn the knife on the attacker? I'm only playing devils advocate here. It isn't always black and white. Too many people are too quick to judge. Would you buy a new car without researching it first to make sure you had all the info? Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 As already posted - he is banned from all firearms possession for life - though he can appeal to the high court to get such a ban lifted. Interestingly, the ban also applies to airguns and airgun pellets - so possession of a 22 pellet would also stand a good chance of putting him back inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 If your feo knew you where associated with someone who had done 5yrs for knife crime I'd be worrying about your own licence, Durham would probably revoke my FAC/SGC if I hung about with someone like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 What if the man was defending a pregnant woman from a violent attack, and he managed to turn the knife on the attacker? I'm only playing devils advocate here. It isn't always black and white. Too many people are too quick to judge. Would you buy a new car without researching it first to make sure you had all the info? Just saying... A sentence of 5 years is not handed out lightly, to receive it you have to have done something pretty serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I take the stance that any form of violence, from domestic to fisty cuffs down the pub should be enough reason to never be allowed to posses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 What if the man was defending a pregnant woman from a violent attack, and he managed to turn the knife on the attacker? I'm only playing devils advocate here. It isn't always black and white. Too many people are too quick to judge. Would you buy a new car without researching it first to make sure you had all the info? Just saying... The chap would have had his day in court and no doubt would have had legal representation. His defence solicitor/barrister if any element of self defence or reasonable force existed , would have used it and surely a Not Guilty verdict found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parapilot Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 A sentence of 5 years is not handed out lightly, to receive it you have to have done something pretty serious. +1. If it was self defense, or to protect, a judge would not have jailed him for 5 years. The sentence speaks for itself, any mitigating circumstances would have been taken into account. If he would turn a knife to someone, there is a high chance he would turn a firearm, and I would not like him at any of my shoots incase he looses his temper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I take the stance that any form of violence, from domestic to fisty cuffs down the pub should be enough reason to never be allowed to posses. But then there's someone that I know ... when he was 18 or 19, got into a pub fight - ABH conviction (probation) Now, he's 32. Married, got a little baby of 2 yrs old, started his own plumbing business at 24. Got through this recession, knuckles down and just gets on with it. He's now got FAC (22LR) and SGC, I shoot with him a few times a year. He's got my land as part of his 'good reason' for FAC. Sensible, level headed, utterly reliable, I'd trust him with anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 You're assuming the british justice system takes the common sense approach to these matters, when it's often not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnythefox70 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 You're assuming the british justice system takes the common sense approach to these matters, when it's often not the case.Well said!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 What if the man was defending a pregnant woman from a violent attack, and he managed to turn the knife on the attacker? I'm only playing devils advocate here. It isn't always black and white. Too many people are too quick to judge. He would never have got 5 years if it had been in the circumstances you cite. The example is laughable. As for members judging him - the Court already passed the judgement, which I accept. You seem to know better. Perhaps, if you had been the defending Barrister, he would have been given some sort of award rather than a prison sentence. The man can't be trusted with a knife so why would anyone let him near firearms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Well said!!!! then as your the person who knows what happened and why he turned a knife on a human being be it self defence or not ,,,please enlighten us so we can see if the justice system got it wrong atb Evo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Evo - fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I've briefly looked at everyone's comment, but who's to know if the friend has been in prison anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 then as your the person who knows what happened and why he turned a knife on a human being be it self defence or not ,,,please enlighten us so we can see if the justice system got it wrong atb Evo +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) The OP said he had been sentenced to 5 years. I don't know why the subject of the knife offence or any plea not to judge him were ever mentioned. This should have been a straight question. Someone has been sentenced to 5 years in prison - for whatever - can he use firearms? The answer has been given - no. The rest is irrelevant. Edited June 10, 2014 by Gordon R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) He is not allowed to handle any gun for life . The only way this ban can be lifted is for him to make an appeal to a crown court . I have seen only one case of the ban being lifted . This was when a game keeper was banned for serving a 4 year sentence and had the ban lifted on appeal so that he could carry on his job as a keeper . Incedently , if you are aware of the ban then you could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting a banned person to handle a shot gun, think about it . It's a cruel old world and sometimes for the better . Harnser Edited June 10, 2014 by Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 I have a question for the legally talented here goes:I bumped into an old friend who was a keen shooter for years until he was sentenced to 5 years imprisonment for a knife assault. Right (please don't judge him as only i know the real reason he did it) could i technically go to a clay shoot and let him use my gun under supervision? (Sec21 firearms act say not to possess doesn't say must not to use) He's rehabilitated and has Totally turned his life around. Don't know the law on this so before i ask him i need to know what i intend to do is 100% legal. You say you know the circumstances?have you spoken with the victim?Were you at all the procedings,read statements?presecent at the scene? If not you only one side,half the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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