lloydi73 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Haha I hope that's yards lloyd .else there going some fast birds mate . if that is 25 ft . I wouldn't worry too much about what choke you use . Keep at it mate . And remember every one one this site has either been there or is still there . Stevo No, it was feet....is that too close I am assuming? Need to go 25 yards/70ft I'm assuming? What do you mean by if 25ft they must be fast? ATB P.s. I see I'm sometimes referred to as "the op" in the strings, what's op?? Edited June 20, 2014 by lloydi73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lloydi, if you have a field full of pigeons give me a call and I will come over and shoot them and you can watch. Simples. Yes 25' is too close for decoys as a rule, but not always. I start placing mine 25 good paces from the hide and depending on conditions and how I want the birds to come into the pattern the furthest away could be 60 paces from the hide. op I believe stands for 'original poster' but I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Your gun will pattern at it's best at 25 -30yds. As JDog says, 'OP' is original poster. Have a look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OrCrQrtJNc No, it was feet....is that too close I am assuming? Need to go 25 yards/70ft I'm assuming? What do you mean by if 25ft they must be fast?ATBP.s. I see I'm sometimes referred to as "the op" in the strings, what's op?? Edited June 20, 2014 by Penelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) No, it was feet....is that too close I am assuming? Need to go 25 yards/70ft I'm assuming? What do you mean by if 25ft they must be fast? ATB P.s. I see I'm sometimes referred to as "the op" in the strings, what's op?? Not being to harsh....however have you done any research apart from typing on here? There are a few good books around and there are subjects in the pinned sectioned ( not that I think the pattern advice is up to much) However...From what you have wrote so far it seems it is easier to type on here than spending the time reading up on loads of different opinions... Taking a few 3 feet square ( not yards!!) pieces of paper clip them on a frame and stand back 25 yards ( not feet) aim in the centre of the paper with your 1/4 choke...and take a look!! There is a rough guide line to shooting pigeons that many people stick too...this works. Others do it differently as you will have read. TEH This is showing a lack of commitment as the hoops you have to jump through while waiting for a sgc could of been better spent.... IMHOP ( in my honest opinion ) Edited June 20, 2014 by The Essex Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lloydi, if you have a field full of pigeons give me a call and I will come over and shoot them and you can watch. Simples. Yes 25' is too close for decoys as a rule, but not always. I start placing mine 25 good paces from the hide and depending on conditions and how I want the birds to come into the pattern the furthest away could be 60 paces from the hide. op I believe stands for 'original poster' but I may be wrong. What days/times are you free, would be good to see a vet first hand how it's done and get an idea.......YOu're Moreton In Marsh way aren't you I think I read you put, I'm quite a bit south to you around Abingdon way...is that too far or do you want me to come to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Not being to harsh....however have you done any research apart from typing on here? There are a few good books around and there are subjects in the pinned sectioned ( not that I think the pattern advice is up to much) However...From what you have wrote so far it seems it is easier to type on here than spending the time reading up on loads of different opinions... Taking a few 3 feet square ( not yards!!) pieces of paper clip them on a frame and stand back 25 yards ( not feet) aim in the centre of the paper with your 1/4 choke...and take a look!! There is a rough guide line to shooting pigeons that many people stick too...this works. Others do it differently as you will have read. TEH This is showing a lack of commitment as the hoops you have to jump through while waiting for a sgc could of been better spent.... IMHOP ( in my honest opinion ) Brought several books now, arrived two weeks ago, but alas, from the odd 10 mibs I get to type on here, I have a 2 year old that wants all my time at home and work from 06:00 til 19:00, so time to read and "research" is extremely limited!! I find asking on here helps more, as most, offer sensible informative advice and haven't forgotten they were new once also!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Brought several books now, arrived two weeks ago, but alas, from the odd 10 mibs I get to type on here, I have a 2 year old that wants all my time at home and work from 06:00 til 19:00, so time to read and "research" is extremely limited!! I find asking on here helps more, as most, offer sensible informative advice and haven't forgotten they were new once also!! Good on you for asking - and keeping your chin up through the lambastings. I learnt a lot of random stuff through youtube and here. You can do your own pattern plate stuff for sure on your permission. Just do as TEH says with the board and paperclipped paper. Also is worth doing more clays and also going out with a experienced person too (or getting them on to your permission for a day) - I certainly don't have much time for books, prefer first hand experience or watching vid's etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Good on you for asking - and keeping your chin up through the lambastings. I learnt a lot of random stuff through youtube and here. You can do your own pattern plate stuff for sure on your permission. Just do as TEH says with the board and paperclipped paper. Also is worth doing more clays and also going out with a experienced person too (or getting them on to your permission for a day) - I certainly don't have much time for books, prefer first hand experience or watching vid's etc... Cheers Mentalmac...... Obviously I know what a pattern plate is, but what is the purpose of it? Is it to show you shot pattern and set distances so when you're out shooting live quarry, you have an idea of where the bird will sit in the pattern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Your gun will pattern at it's best at 25 -30yds. As JDog says, 'OP' is original poster. Have a look at this. Now that was a good video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Archie Coates was a very successful pigeon shooter, but I don't agree with everything that he says. For instance, he said that pigeons would not go near a net hide on it's own in the middle of a field and that you should never look over the net for pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Brought several books now, arrived two weeks ago, but alas, from the odd 10 mibs I get to type on here, I have a 2 year old that wants all my time at home and work from 06:00 til 19:00, so time to read and "research" is extremely limited!! I find asking on here helps more, as most, offer sensible informative advice and haven't forgotten they were new once also!! Brought several books now, arrived two weeks ago, but alas, from the odd 10 mibs I get to type on here, I have a 2 year old that wants all my time at home and work from 06:00 til 19:00, so time to read and "research" is extremely limited!! I find asking on here helps more, as most, offer sensible informative advice and haven't forgotten they were new once also!! With a simple pattern test you can find out in 1/2 an hour where you are...some old wall paper stuck together a few bit of batten or a bit of scrap ply and a post to nail it to... Dry mount the gun a few times...in a smooth manor. I guess you have an auto as you only mentioned 1 choke!! Stand 20/25 yards from the plate bring the gun into your shoulder and just pull the trigger!! Don't stand and strangle the gun while pointing it as shot guns don't work like that.... 2 pattern plates would be better as you would add a bit of consistency rather than shoot walk down to the paper change it and walk back!! Have a look at the BASC intro pigeon shooting days on offer...they are £45 to members. A box of rounds are about £6.00 an the rest is foc...just your time to see where you shoot.... You will see how many pellets are in that area, it is not a cure or fix...however mounting the gun a few times and seeing the results in your hand will help.. TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted June 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Well, that was an interesting 1/2 hour on the pattern plate!! Aiming at the dead centre, the shot was 60%-70% above the line as it should be apparently, and I'd say 60-70% left so in a nut shell I was consistently top left quadrant which for a right hander is the norm so I was told. So now I know for birds coming from the left, they need a bit more lead as shot is going left as it leaves the gun, so aiming straight at them coming from left, the shot is already behind them.....birds from the right pretty much straight at them.....and coming left, right, behind or head on, they all need the feet taking off or just a tad lower looking forward to next Week and putting it into practice Edited June 21, 2014 by lloydi73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Well, that was an interesting 1/2 hour on the pattern plate!! Aiming at the dead centre, the shot was 60%-70% above the line as it should be apparently, and I'd say 60-70% left so in a nut shell I was consistently top left quadrant which for a right hander is the norm so I was told. So now I know for birds coming from the left, they need a bit more lead as shot is going left as it leaves the gun, so aiming straight at them coming from left, the shot is already behind them.....birds from the right pretty much straight at them.....and coming left, right, behind or head on, they all need the feet taking off or just a tad lower looking forward to next Week and putting it into practice I'm not trying to spoil your fun, believe me, but it isn't as simple as that I'm afraid, otherwise none of us would miss. Did you pattern your gun from a 'gun up' position, or from a gun down position as you will be when shooting from a hide? Can I assume you wont be shooting from a hide with 'gun up'? This is where consistently mounting a moving gun comes into play, and only repetitive practise can create the muscle memory needed to ensure your mount becomes instinct. When that bird suddenly appears from nowhere and the adrenalin kicks in, as a relative novice you wont have the time to calmly think things through, you'll just react. Muscle memory ensures you react consistently. Your shot leaves the muzzle as a long string, not as a cone and ultimately as a one dimensional disc as it appears on a pattern plate, and therefore your only chance of hitting crossers is by sweeping through, not 'pretty much straight at them' regardless of which side they're coming from. The faster the bird the faster the sweep. How many times have we, as novice shooters, followed the bird through and pulled the trigger just to see a miss, and then almost in a panicked reflex action whipped those barrels through in an attempt to catch up and cleanly kill the bird with the second barrel? That's what you need to be doing for crossers. If you shoot the feet off head on birds you will probably hit them if they're descending, but if they're rising you need to blot them out with a rising gun akin to 'springing teal'. All this means nothing of course, unless your mount is consistent, and if you're 'aiming' instead of 'pointing', then you wont be concentrating on the bird. Don't think of it as firing your shot at the target, but of the target flying into your shot. Put that pattern where the bird is going, not where it's at. I'm not criticising, honestly, I know how frustrating it can be when you're first starting out. Believe me, you will struggle to progress as fast as you could without that mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Read and re-read the above! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Well, that was an interesting 1/2 hour on the pattern plate!! Aiming at the dead centre, the shot was 60%-70% above the line as it should be apparently, and I'd say 60-70% left so in a nut shell I was consistently top left quadrant which for a right hander is the norm so I was told. So now I know for birds coming from the left, they need a bit more lead as shot is going left as it leaves the gun, so aiming straight at them coming from left, the shot is already behind them.....birds from the right pretty much straight at them.....and coming left, right, behind or head on, they all need the feet taking off or just a tad lower looking forward to next Week and putting it into practice You really need to go have some lessons so you can get your head around lead / swing etc,etc because the fact you are still talking about shooting straight at things shows you do not understand the basic principle of shotgun shooting , which is shooting where the target is going to be rather than where it is , because if you are shooting where the target is, its not going to be there when your shot arrives !. Edited June 21, 2014 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm not trying to spoil your fun, believe me, but it isn't as simple as that I'm afraid, otherwise none of us would miss. Did you pattern your gun from a 'gun up' position, or from a gun down position as you will be when shooting from a hide? Can I assume you wont be shooting from a hide with 'gun up'? This is where consistently mounting a moving gun comes into play, and only repetitive practise can create the muscle memory needed to ensure your mount becomes instinct. When that bird suddenly appears from nowhere and the adrenalin kicks in, as a relative novice you wont have the time to calmly think things through, you'll just react. Muscle memory ensures you react consistently. Your shot leaves the muzzle as a long string, not as a cone and ultimately as a one dimensional disc as it appears on a pattern plate, and therefore your only chance of hitting crossers is by sweeping through, not 'pretty much straight at them' regardless of which side they're coming from. The faster the bird the faster the sweep. How many times have we, as novice shooters, followed the bird through and pulled the trigger just to see a miss, and then almost in a panicked reflex action whipped those barrels through in an attempt to catch up and cleanly kill the bird with the second barrel? That's what you need to be doing for crossers. If you shoot the feet off head on birds you will probably hit them if they're descending, but if they're rising you need to blot them out with a rising gun akin to 'springing teal'. All this means nothing of course, unless your mount is consistent, and if you're 'aiming' instead of 'pointing', then you wont be concentrating on the bird. Don't think of it as firing your shot at the target, but of the target flying into your shot. Put that pattern where the bird is going, not where it's at. I'm not criticising, honestly, I know how frustrating it can be when you're first starting out. Believe me, you will struggle to progress as fast as you could without that mount. That's the best advice your likely to get, here or anywhere else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 You really need to go have some lessons so you can get your head around lead / swing etc,etc because the fact you are still talking about shooting straight at things shows you do not understand the basic principle of shotgun shooting , which is shooting where the target is going to be rather than where it is , because if you are shooting where the target is, its not going to be there when your shot arrives !. Well I picked up this point some time ago.....however I have come to the conclusion the op is very reluctant to get out and swing the gun....and we have wasted our time.... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted June 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) RESULT!! Went out yesterday and bagged 5 birds in first 20mins, then went on to bag 15 more over the next 1.5 hours......Bum, Belly, Beak....excellent result, following this technique ensured I kept the gun moving and by folowing through ensured the lead was enough!! Also, calmly standing up and not muzzling, another great tip, with less panic, had more chance to think where the bird was going and would be, rather than blaming behind!! Next gun fit is August at Enstone, so got my name slotted in for then...... Thanks for the normal people with sound advice on here...if I haven't mentioned your advice, don;t think I'm ignoring it, I am getting around to it, it's just a lot to take in all at once!! ATB Lloydi Edited June 24, 2014 by lloydi73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Good news, onwards and upwards. Remember, you can't hit them all. RESULT!!Went out yesterday and bagged 5 birds in first 20mins, then went on to bag 15 more over the next 1.5 hours......Bum, Belly, Beak....excellent result, following this technique ensured I kept the gun moving and by folowing through ensured the lead was enough!! Also, calmly standing up and not muzzling, another great tip, with less panic, had more chance to think where the bird was going and would be, rather than blaming behind!!Next gun fit is August at Enstone, so got my name slotted in for then......Thanks for the normal people with sound advice on here...if I haven't mentioned your advice, don;t think I'm ignoring it, I am getting around to it, it's just a lot to take in all at once!!ATBLloydi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadrew Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 From a newbie perspective, I was exactly the same as you, still am to an extent but I'm learning! Thing that helped me was to slow down, every time I saw a bird, I would be up, BANG, miss, as soon as it was over the pattern. Now I wait for it to commit to the pattern, its wings break, its eyes are on the landing zone, slowly stand and bring the gun up over the net, eyes focused on the bird, track on to it, BUM, BELLY, BEAK, BANG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well.... Went out again today and had another good dat, not as good as Monday, but still good....had 10 with Semi and bagged another six around the barns with my good old .22PCP.....thanks for all the good advice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well done Lloydi, now you've got the fundamentals, it will only get better/ easier from now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRsniper Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Arrrr...that could be a good reason Delburt....I see them incoming, then rush, grab gun and nearly jump over the net it's that rushed!! Thanks..I'll try and slow it down...and it seems you're saying aim at them when close...The majoirty are close as I am quite good at picking the flight line and setting up right under it...it's just hitting the ******* thats the problem...But I'll try aiming at them rather that just under and in fornt...thanks!! "See them incoming, then rush and grab the gun and nearly jump over the net"...........lot of movement there before you've even aimed at the bird, I rarely put the gun down during a shoot and agree as above the loads you are using are way too heavy. Keep practising old chap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Well.... Went out again today and had another good dat, not as good as Monday, but still good....had 10 with Semi and bagged another six around the barns with my good old .22PCP.....thanks for all the good advice!! Now, have you eaten one yet? Makes all the bother worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Now, have you eaten one yet? Makes all the bother worthwhile. Not yet, all been given to local game dealer, but gonna have a look for a few recipes over coming weeks as my wife and I are partial to game However, my mother has asked for a few and some rabbits aswell, so maybe learn off good old mum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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