Jamie r Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hi guys, I've been shooting quite a while and im consistently hitting 80% or above on sporting clays and skeet but I am really struggling with decoying. I've only been out a handful of times on the pigeons but have a large amount of land to shoot over (growing peas, wheat, beans and oats, also a few hundred acres of pasture). I'm beginning to get so frustrated with it at the moment, I know practice makes perfect but I feel like I have no idea with where or why I'm missing right now so..... Is there any experienced shooters in the East Sussex/south kent area that would be willing to accompany me and help point me in the right direction please? On the first couple of outings I think I was trying to shoot them too far out and now I've let them come into the decoys I've been hitting more. But the other thing that has completely thrown me and really knocked my confidence are the crows, I can't hit them for love nor money and the farm I shoot seems to have loads of them Any help would be great fully received Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Crows, 32grms 6's, even better 5's They travel a lot slower than you think, so you may well be missing in front with a hasty shot. Make sure your range estimation is ok and that as you said with the pigeons, you are not trying to shoot too far, Slow the whole thing down and just shoot the beaks off them. I predominantly used to shoot pigeons but then was taken out on the crows by a good friend. It took me a while to adjust to the difference as I was over leading them. Also choke plays a part. Not too open as in both cases, you might have a blown pattern. 1/2 choke is good, 3/4 too. With pigeons, set your decoy pattern with an open section to encourage the birds to land in, killing zone, at 25-28 yards. Wait for the pigeons to commit to the K zone, and as they flare their wings to land, they will be stationary for a couple of seconds. This is the point to shoot them. Just mount smoothly and pick them off, like slow motion. The success will boost you confidence and you can build on that. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Rooks and crows do not usually need as much lead as pigeons, as they rarely fly as fast as pigeons. Cut the lead down and see if things improve. I kill lots of rooks and crows with 28gms No6, if you hit them you will kill them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Crows, 32grms 6's, even better 5's They travel a lot slower than you think, so you may well be missing in front with a hasty shot. Make sure your range estimation is ok and that as you said with the pigeons, you are not trying to shoot too far, Slow the whole thing down and just shoot the beaks off them. I predominantly used to shoot pigeons but then was taken out on the crows by a good friend. It took me a while to adjust to the difference as I was over leading them. Also choke plays a part. Not too open as in both cases, you might have a blown pattern. 1/2 choke is good, 3/4 too. With pigeons, set your decoy pattern with an open section to encourage the birds to land in, killing zone, at 25-28 yards. Wait for the pigeons to commit to the K zone, and as they flare their wings to land, they will be stationary for a couple of seconds. This is the point to shoot them. Just mount smoothly and pick them off, like slow motion. The success will boost you confidence and you can build on that. Hope this helps. Watch Pykie's corvid shooting video that was posted today and you may re-think that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) I shot 40 odd corvids with 28gm 7.5's last week and a lot were dead in the air. However shooting these birds doe's little for your confidence as they are not as easy as people think. If your killing 80% on clays then your shooting can't be that far out. Familiarise yourself with range and distance is my advice one mans 30 yds is another mans 50! theres no shame in bringing birds as close as you can to the gun. Edited June 17, 2014 by aga man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 What do you call struggling , pigeon are one of most difficult of targets and 1 for around 2 shots is generally considered good going . Those that shoot better than that tend to go quite a bit , and the more you go the more "sight pictures" you build in your mind . A day with lots of shooting also helps to get the eye in and you are likely to shoot better than those days where your only getting the odd shot. Without doubt the two biggest mistakes new pigeon shooters tend to make is shooting at out of range birds and rushing the shot . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Are you managing to get the birds to decoy? If yes, then pace out your furthest decoy at 25 yards and use that as a marker for your furthest shot until you start hitting them and you gain confidence. You're obviously a competent shot so it may just be that you're not judging your distances and shooting too far out. Quarter choke in your gun if you can and you should be ok. Take your time and only stand when bird is in range and you're ready to take your shot. Edited June 17, 2014 by Cosd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) Watch Pykie's corvid shooting video that was posted today and you may re-think that statement. Pykie is very experienced and a dam good shot. The OP asked for some help and is clearly having a difficult time. Some of us can be a with smaller shot loads, but confidence plays a huge part in shooting and a pattern with more pellets in it is going to help. If your having a problem, going to a smaller load isn't going to help. My best bag with the 410 2-1 ratio was 44 pigeons. With the logic behind your comment, do you think it would be constructive to tell the OP to use a 410? Edited June 18, 2014 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) You are missing the fact that a lighter 28 gram load of 7.5s will have as many if not more pellets than a heavy one of larger pellets they will also be more user friendly if you are shooting a lot in a day. Edited June 18, 2014 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm not that convinced that a lot of clay practice helps you hit the target on live quarry. Clay shooting helps new to the sport in mounting their gun consistently and getting used to it so mounting becomes second nature. However being good at hitting clays has no relevance to hitting live quarry. It's like comparing lawn tennis with badminton if you get my drift. I would ease up on the clays, listen to the advise you have already been given and get out in the field as much as you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie r Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Thanks for all the advice, reading through that makes me wonder if all my clay experience is almost having a negative affect on it. Judging distances is possibly what it is as the main sight pictures I have are f clays which are obviously a completely different size to crows,I will try to lessen my lead on the crows and see how that goes then. I got a few pigeons to decoy nicely the other day on the peas but there really wasn't much action in the air so it was hard to say. I also left my battery for the magnet at home which was annoying and didn't help matters. I've recently changed my chokes down to 1/2 and 1/4 now which also has helped on the close in pigeons over the decoys. On my last outing I hit 3 pigeons for 5 shots, they all decoyed nicely, but missed 3 crows with four shots. It was a quiet afternoon and I was only out for a couple of hours and although a small bag it was better to be out than at work so I can't complain, it would just be nice to start hitting more when they are about. Anyway thanks again and if there's anybody that can join me in the East Sussex area that would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 At least you are hitting some and no doubt you will improve the more you are out there etc Once you get the lead right you will be bagging up and having pigeon pie every day lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinribz Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 You have a pm jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think you might be giving them too much lead as clay will have thought you so. Clays are faster and more predictable than live quarry and you're used to faster target and ....already know when and how to hit them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'm not that convinced that a lot of clay practice helps you hit the target on live quarry. Clay shooting helps new to the sport in mounting their gun consistently and getting used to it so mounting becomes second nature. However being good at hitting clays has no relevance to hitting live quarry. It's like comparing lawn tennis with badminton if you get my drift. I would ease up on the clays, listen to the advise you have already been given and get out in the field as much as you can. a good clay shot will hold his own on all live quarry. It's about reading targets that makes a good shot . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 a good clay shot will hold his own on all live quarry. It's about reading targets that makes a good shot . Yes of course when he is experienced at both. That is different to what I was advising Jamie who is a novice at quarry. You can be good at lawn tennis and Badminton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yes of course when he is experienced at both. That is different to what I was advising Jamie who is a novice at quarry. You can be good at lawn tennis and Badminton then why wouldn't shooting clays help with shooting live quarry . Most misses in novices can be down to poor irregular mounting. I would say keep banging away . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 then why wouldn't shooting clays help with shooting live quarry . Most misses in novices can be down to poor irregular mounting. I would say keep banging away . Because in my view, you cannot compare a pre determined clay line of flight with the gun standing at a consistent stance with the unknown line of flight of live quarry with the gun sitting in a hide looking through a net. It is as I say like comparing lawn tennis with badminton ( not a great analogy but I hope you know what I mean) If the individual has experience at both, then I'm sure he will be competent at both. However in this case Jamie who is good at clays couldn't hit live quarry. Would your advise to him be, keep going to the clay ground, it will sort his problem out and make him better at hitting live quarry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie r Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Jaydt10 I'm sorry but on this case I have to agree with birdsallpl, I can shoot as many clays as necessary. I don't shoot competitions any more but I'm still classified on cpsa as a double a shot. I just struggle with live quarry, I can hold my own on any clay ground, whether it skeet, sporting, down the line and so on. I think you have hit the nail on the head with reading the targets though and I think that's my problem, I can't seem to judge how far out a crow is or pigeon etc. I know at a clay ground all targets are hittable and therefore within range, as you get to repeat them etc it's easier to learn lead and the sight pictures. My problem is when I miss quarry I don't know where I'm missing and as I can't repeat the shot I can't work it out on my own, hence asking for help with so,embody pointing me in the right direction in the hide. Once I start connecting with more then I'm sure I will learn the sight pictures at relevant distances and know what I'm capable of hitting etc. Thanks for all the comments though. Regards jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) I don't shoot clays very often, but once shot loads, and now I've found that I can't judge long crossing clays but have no problem with live quarry. Incoming clays, going away, quartering, loopers, rabbits etc don't seem to offer too many problems, but long crossers? Forget it. It's possibly because the clay is slowing down whereas live quarry is either increasing its speed or is at least at a consistent speed. My technique for crossing pigeons is to simply sweeeeeep the barrels through the bird and pull the trigger when it's blotted out. This works no matter what the speed of the bird. Any others are tracked and then I just add that little 'push' which takes me ahead. This is an excellent technique for bolting bunnies...just that little push through its front feet and head over heels it tumbles. Crows and Jackdaws however, are deceptive little *******, but even those ones which appear to be hanging motionless in the air are in fact moving, often sideways! Pigeons dipping a wing and changing direction in an instant are hard enough, but corvids doing it in slow motion just drive you nuts. There's only one way to cater for corvids and that's to get out there and experience them. As an aside, my nephew shoots a great deal of clays out of season, and really struggles to connect with driven pheasant at times during the early weeks of the game season, but will then clatter a stratospheric pigeon which no one else even considers raising a gun to. Go figure. Edited June 20, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Jaydt10 I'm sorry but on this case I have to agree with birdsallpl, I can shoot as many clays as necessary. I don't shoot competitions any more but I'm still classified on cpsa as a double a shot. I just struggle with live quarry, I can hold my own on any clay ground, whether it skeet, sporting, down the line and so on. I think you have hit the nail on the head with reading the targets though and I think that's my problem, I can't seem to judge how far out a crow is or pigeon etc. I know at a clay ground all targets are hittable and therefore within range, as you get to repeat them etc it's easier to learn lead and the sight pictures. My problem is when I miss quarry I don't know where I'm missing and as I can't repeat the shot I can't work it out on my own, hence asking for help with so,embody pointing me in the right direction in the hide. Once I start connecting with more then I'm sure I will learn the sight pictures at relevant distances and know what I'm capable of hitting etc. Thanks for all the comments though. Regards jamie if you don't where your missing then your most probably in front or over the top , more likely in front if you've been shooting clays. If you don't know where your missing it's always best to cut down your lead and even shoot straight at them . Edited June 23, 2014 by jayDT10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Firstly, make sure you're no bobbing about in your hide. Crows and rooks have very good vision and can spot you from a long way off. Pigeons not so good but if you are bobbing about then they will get the hint and flare off. Let them come in and as someone said earlier, as they commit to the pattern then shoot. Don't go for the "Digweed" pigeons at range. Most of all, stick at it, it will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Hi guys, I've been shooting quite a while and im consistently hitting 80% or above on sporting clays and skeet but I am really struggling with decoying. I've only been out a handful of times on the pigeons but have a large amount of land to shoot over (growing peas, wheat, beans and oats, also a few hundred acres of pasture). I'm beginning to get so frustrated with it at the moment, I know practice makes perfect but I feel like I have no idea with where or why I'm missing right now so..... Is there any experienced shooters in the East Sussex/south kent area that would be willing to accompany me and help point me in the right direction please? On the first couple of outings I think I was trying to shoot them too far out and now I've let them come into the decoys I've been hitting more. But the other thing that has completely thrown me and really knocked my confidence are the crows, I can't hit them for love nor money and the farm I shoot seems to have loads of them Any help would be great fully received Jamie A few things to consider, Wild birds veer and swerve when you point guns at them Clays slow progressively from the minute they are released, real birds get faster Anticipate were the bird will be, not as easy with real birds as it is with clays I often over lead crows in flight and duck over the decoys, easy done - stay calm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Clays slow progressively from the minute they are released, I don't agree with this many a good ground has the ability to through clays that accelerate from the tower with a trap pointed at a downward angle acceleration under gravity until they have passed over the shooter. For example spitfire and St Paul's stand at Bisley but there are many more on ground that teach shooting not just clay bashing. However I agree you need to spend time getting to know your quarry so you can predict fly lines and habits to get the upper hand. Edited July 12, 2014 by welshwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 I don't agree with this many a good ground has the ability to through clays that accelerate from the tower with a trap pointed at a downward angle acceleration under gravity until they have passed over the shooter. For example spitfire and St Paul's stand at Bisley but there are many more on ground that teach shooting not just clay bashing. However I agree you need to spend time getting to know your quarry so you can predict fly lines and habits to get the upper hand. Still limited by the speed they fall at they cannot speed up the further from the trap they get they must slow even if assisted by falling. The fastest point is still when they leave the trap at that same downward angle and I know very little indeed about clay shooting but this is just basic schoolboy science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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