kdubya Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 For a forum full of knowledge and well rounded opinion, the diatribe spewed forth on this subject is disheartening to read. Normally we have a good reasoned debate but this is just a rant at the teaching profession. Figgy Makes them feel better when they fill in their annual fiddle form. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinach Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 I don't dislike teachers, I just think that this isn't the time,and they are not hard done by compared to the rest of society. We all chose what we do I'm not against their holidays until they argue that they don't benefit from them and they work late, as does much of the salaried world. The OP didn't say do you agree with strikes or unions or lefties or if teachers are childminders. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Big Al I'm not trying to be a smart a*s* but what rule did you leave out. I thought his speech was 11 rules Fair point! I was having a a wee drink in Pembrokeshire when I typed and not in the classroom! I still think they give a hint of realism though! Edited July 12, 2014 by Big Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 I still think they give a hint of realism though! Very much agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 I've nothing against teachers. My Dad was one for 52 years, though private sector (he never went on strike). I don't like the dumbed-down, politicised state education industry, the National Curriculum, trade unionists or strikers. Roll that lot into one and call it the NUT and its very hard to take a sympathetic view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 I have just spent from February until the end of the school year doing my college elective placement in the local school support unit. The staff here were in the main totally professional in every aspect of their work even to the point of taking some of the young people to youth clubs in their own time. Although none of these young people are the sons and daughters of PW members I feel I can say that many of them were messed up by the inability of their parents to properly bring them up. Good and bad in all sections of society! Well worth the money they get and then some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 90% of society's ills can be pt down to bad parenting. Sadly it's been a problem for centuries. Look at Hogarth's "Gin Lane" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Teachers are well paid , have good working hours including holidays. (See below) There pensions are being messed about, not as much as in the fireservice! They have always been left wing and strong union bias. Do I support this strike NO. Do I support the right to strike YES. John. Well paid? My sis, a teacher of 20 years is on £34k. For the hours and stress she is under and the effect that has had on her health I'd have jacked it in and done something else. I have sympathy with teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Well paid? My sis, a teacher of 20 years is on £34k. For the hours and stress she is under and the effect that has had on her health I'd have jacked it in and done something else. I have sympathy with teachers. A typical army Corporal band 1 gets about £26,700 a Sgt band 1 gets £30,500.Hours and stress,ask one of them about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 A typical army Corporal band 1 gets about £26,700 a Sgt band 1 gets £30,500.Hours and stress,ask one of them about it. here here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) A typical army Corporal band 1 gets about £26,700 a Sgt band 1 gets £30,500.Hours and stress,ask one of them about it. I think comparing a graduate teacher with someone from the ranks is comparing apples with oranges. What qualifications does an NCO require on entry? Certainly not a degree, you don't even need to be a graduate for a commission. So effectively a Sergeant who joined with no skills or qualifications after 5 years, can earn the same as someone who has gone to Edinburgh University and studied for 4 years. I certainly don't disagree with you that they get a lot of stress and are underpaid but like teaching anyone who goes in for it needs their head read. Edited July 14, 2014 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think comparing a graduate teacher with someone from the ranks is comparing apples with oranges. What qualifications does an NCO require on entry? Certainly not a degree, you don't even need to be a graduate for a commission. So effectively a Sergeant who joined with no skills or qualifications after 5 years, can earn the same as someone who has gone to Edinburgh University and studied for 4 years. I certainly don't disagree with you that they get a lot of stress and are underpaid but like teaching anyone who goes in for it needs their head read. Sergeant is a senior role of responsibility, promotion to which typically takes place after 12 years depending on ability. Sergeants typically are second in command of a troop or platoon of up to 35 soldiers, with the important responsibility for advising and assisting junior officers. To get to Sgt you have usually attained a lot of qualifications and a lot of courses to enable you to carry out your duties. If you want a degree, look at a Lieutenant between £30,000 and £32,000, LieutenantLieutenant is a rank typically held for up to 3 years. They normally command of a platoon or troop of around 30 soldiers, but with experience comes increased responsibilities. They also have the opportunity to gain specialised skills outside their unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 I think comparing a graduate teacher with someone from the ranks is comparing apples with oranges. What qualifications does an NCO require on entry? Certainly not a degree, you don't even need to be a graduate for a commission. So effectively a Sergeant who joined with no skills or qualifications after 5 years, can earn the same as someone who has gone to Edinburgh University and studied for 4 years. I certainly don't disagree with you that they get a lot of stress and are underpaid but like teaching anyone who goes in for it needs their head read. What's the big deal about studying and getting a degree. 95% of individuals can achieve it. It's just a case of making the time and having the inclination. However making it through the ranks is a special breed of person altogether. Anyone with reasonable ability can become an academic. To many people make studying almost a career because they are useless at everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 What's the big deal about studying and getting a degree. 95% of individuals can achieve it. It's just a case of making the time and having the inclination. However making it through the ranks is a special breed of person altogether. Anyone with reasonable ability can become an academic. To many people make studying almost a career because they are useless at everything else. Can they? Really? On my course 45% dropped out within two years because of the workload. What is your degree as its such a doddle to get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashman1 Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Workload what utter rubbish bone idle more like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 If you are studying full time then workload is not an issue (and certainly not when compared to the workload and discipline required by a 9 to 5 job). My degree added up to 12 hours lectures / tutorials a week and there was always a whole day off in there (e.g. no need to go in on a Wednesday) and super long holidays. If you treat a degree like a job (based on a 9-5 working week) then that would have left me with a balance of up to 28 hours on top to do assignments, revision and other work. It didn't - the 'other work' took a couple of hours and I spent the rest of the time pleasing myself (not like that, ooooerr Vicar). I reckon the average degree could be done in 2 years. Indeed, my trainee did his law degree in 2 years at some full time private college number and I don't think he killed himself doing it. Looking back I wished I'd dodged the handcuffs of a job / mortgage / career (and real life generally) and stayed on and done a masters or a PhD. It's the difference between a 45 year working life and say a 40 year working life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Again degrees vary, I do 2 days a week at college 9-5pm with an hour for lunch one day and 30 minutes the other. Travel means my days at college are 6-30 leave my house and return about 7-45pm. The three other days I am at my placement 7 hours each and I then have my fortnightly essays, just 1000-1500 words, and 4 subjects per semester with essays and bibliographies. This coming year I have my dissertation to write on top of everything else too. My choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) Can they? Really? On my course 45% dropped out within two years because of the workload. What is your degree as its such a doddle to get? Drop out rates do not reflect just "workload", but also lack of motivation or simple fecklessness. http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/news/dropout-rates-fall-at-english-universities/ What's your course? Edited July 15, 2014 by Flashman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 What's the big deal about studying and getting a degree. 95% of individuals can achieve it. It's just a case of making the time and having the inclination. However making it through the ranks is a special breed of person altogether. Anyone with reasonable ability can become an academic. To many people make studying almost a career because they are useless at everything else. Two people in our circle of friends have done this. One has just turned 50 and is an eternal student. The other is 30 and the same...... If they were in research i could see some sense but it's just course after course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Two people in our circle of friends have done this. One has just turned 50 and is an eternal student. The other is 30 and the same...... If they were in research i could see some sense but it's just course after course. Who's paying for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 No idea but would hazard a guess that we are paying some of it as i don't think either are sponsored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 If you are studying full time then workload is not an issue (and certainly not when compared to the workload and discipline required by a 9 to 5 job). My degree added up to 12 hours lectures / tutorials a week and there was always a whole day off in there (e.g. no need to go in on a Wednesday) and super long holidays. If you treat a degree like a job (based on a 9-5 working week) then that would have left me with a balance of up to 28 hours on top to do assignments, revision and other work. It didn't - the 'other work' took a couple of hours and I spent the rest of the time pleasing myself (not like that, ooooerr Vicar). I reckon the average degree could be done in 2 years. Indeed, my trainee did his law degree in 2 years at some full time private college number and I don't think he killed himself doing it. Looking back I wished I'd dodged the handcuffs of a job / mortgage / career (and real life generally) and stayed on and done a masters or a PhD. It's the difference between a 45 year working life and say a 40 year working life. By contrast, my degree timetable was 9-5 Monday to Friday with lectures all day. I could never have done it and worked at the same time, but signed up for agencies during the holiday times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Looking back I wished I'd dodged the handcuffs of a job / mortgage / career (and real life generally) and stayed on and done a masters or a PhD. It's the difference between a 45 year working life and say a 40 year working life. Just out of interest would your career path have been any different with Masters or PhD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Just out of interest would your career path have been any different with Masters or PhD? From experience in my industry as a recruiter it makes you less employable not more great if you are going into the field you specialised but a serious blocker on the CV if you are slightly outside your field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) By contrast, my degree timetable was 9-5 Monday to Friday with lectures all day. I could never have done it and worked at the same time, but signed up for agencies during the holiday times.Really? I knew people doing applied Maths and some Dentistry gig who didn't have more than 3 days knocked out of any one week in term time. As above there are some full time condensed degrees over 2 years and the HND boys who were more work-placement orientated but that's it. The LPC I did was 1 year full time after degree (and that was actually hard work) but even typing this out now i can't think of any full time 9-5 degree course over 3 or 4 years. Just out of interest would your career path have been any different with Masters or PhD? It might lend you to a larger or international law firm doing something 'specialist' but that's not me. Edited July 15, 2014 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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