ditchman Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Just listened to radio norfolk interviewing the director of the RSPB on his opinion of the Aug 12th grouse.....his reply was...................................................... " i do not like the idea of standing in a butt, waiting for wild birds to be pushed together to fly thro the butts and be shot in front and going away".....if i were to shoot grouse i would much prefer to be out with a few mates and dogs , walking thro the hills and the heather hunting the grouse using skill and dogs" now i thought that was a fair answer..........good for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterman49 Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 shame there,s not a few more like that around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Very good reply to the question. At least he understands what it's about for a lot of us shooters. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yes, but their underlying objective is to prohibit management of grouse moors for game shooting. Not very honest when there is a hidden agenda. Still it is a reasonable answer to satisfy the gullible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yes, but their underlying objective is to prohibit management of grouse moors for game shooting. Not very honest when there is a hidden agenda. Still it is a reasonable answer to satisfy the gullible Not totally correct... a balance has to be found and struck which is equitable and beneficial to every one not just the elite few who can afford it. http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/policy/agriculture/farmingsustainability/uplands/grouse-shooting/our-position.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Surely the best answer would have been - the truth. The costs of managing a grouse moor for driven shooting, including predator control (where legal), benefits all wild upland nesting birds, even migrants. Shooting is not their concern, benefitting wildlife, however that is done .......is. More conservation work is done by shooters than by anyone. Maybe BASC/SACS should have an independent study to confirm that and send a copy to all conservation organisations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Guy who was on the beeb yesterday morning from the RSPB dodged a question, went something like this; Interviewer - "So do you want grouse shooting banned?" RSPB guy - "That is not our intention at this time...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Not totally correct... a balance has to be found and struck which is equitable and beneficial to every one not just the elite few who can afford it. http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/policy/agriculture/farmingsustainability/uplands/grouse-shooting/our-position.aspx Please lets not start that elitist garbage as we have already seen the results with the hunting act. Its called "divide and concur" as a tactic used my our enemies and only fools fall for it. For each gun to whom it is just pocket money there is another who has saved hard, then there is the beaters and pickers up, the keepers and their helpers etc. Grouse shooting I should say is far more inclusive than a small pheasant syndicate if you look at the wider picture of involvement. Fact remains these birds are not reared and released just prior to the season and some years there is no surplus crop (did I fail to mention the grouse counts undertaken by the dog men?) So it is never going to be cheap. Three lads I know all saved hard and spent money they had worked hard for just to have the experience at least once in their lives, running a grouse more can be a very expensive hobby but its a rubbish business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Surely the best answer would have been - the truth. The costs of managing a grouse moor for driven shooting, including predator control (where legal), benefits all wild upland nesting birds, even migrants. Shooting is not their concern, benefitting wildlife, however that is done .......is. More conservation work is done by shooters than by anyone. Maybe BASC/SACS should have an independent study to confirm that and send a copy to all conservation organisations. Its recently been published and publicised as has the Hen Harrier recovery project and the petition to have it adopted also- obviously if some don't read it within our ranks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 As kent said. Yes it costs a fortune to shoot grouse but it costs a fortune to manage the moors the way they do (all private money) slightly different in N eng moors but very few in Scotland will turn a profit year on year, infact prob only 5 or 6 turn a profit most years. 1 small moor i go to manages to shoot a few driven days most years, most of the local estates employ grouse keepers but most haven't shot a driven day for 10 years, but plenty other wildlfie and black game benefit from there owners deep pockets, the local nature reserves 'claim' to have black game but are never seen yet a few miles away on shooting estates got leks of 15-20 Also on some of the english moors in a good year with plenty of surpluss not unusual to have a few keepers days, heard of 1 having 15 keepers days 1 year, had far to much stock for over wintering and couldn't sell enough days Ur talking 150ish quid for a brace of driven grouse which is not cheap, BUT when a high released pheasant or partridge can be up to 45-50 quid a bird (90-100 a brace) plus an late season day will have no bag limit and if ur team can shoot a bit there is a very good chance keepers will give u all the best drives to try and get numbers down, so would not be unheard of to shoot 200+ brace if u can shoot and weather is kind (for late season days safer with ins for the weather) making it cheaper than a day on the pheasants. Bottom line is shooting is not cheap when u have to pay for a day no matter wot ur shooting, yes grouse are the elite an the most expensive and i hope they stay that way in order to fund all the conservation work that happens on the moors and the massive organisation that goes into a shoot day. Some of the larger moors will have 100+ folk out on a shoot day, beaters/pickers up/flankers/loaders/drivers for argo's haaglands 4x4's plus catering staff for lunches. All money coming into local pockets and thats not mentioning accom and all the other stuff I cannae afford a box at a top football stadium? Does that make having a box at Chelsea/Man U/Arsenal eliteist? Course it does, Or owning a fancy car. We can't all drive about in Jags/BMW/Mercs etc just as we can't all go grouse shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 To put it more into contex .....the interviewer was trying to really provoke a anti reaction, which didnt happen.....the media are resposible for most of the bad press as it simply dosnt earn money if it is a none story..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Thank you Kent, FisherUK, Kes and scotslad for your great posts. Time and time again our opponents play the class card and the public fall for it. What saddens me is that some shooting folks fall for it, when, of all people, they should know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0850 Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Thank you Kent, FisherUK, Kes and scotslad for your great posts. Time and time again our opponents play the class card and the public fall for it. What saddens me is that some shooting folks fall for it, when, of all people, they should know better. Couldn't agree more and some really great points made. We farm on one of the bigger shooting estates and our acreage includes a fair wedge of grouse moor, I see more curlew, lapwing, BOP, and other bird life than Chris Packham has had quorn sausages!!! Totally agree about the none- elitist thing too, that attitude will only destroy many aspects of shooting and country pursuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Jeremy Vine show (not JV himself) very biased with most of the time given to antis. Annual event I know so we should not overreact but so many lies and misinformation. RSPB guy at start had a real agenda and set the scene. *********** (i think, in missed the intro) was fighting a losing battle. Times printed some very positive stuff. Why the asterisks I thought I typed *********** - what was wrong with that? What is going on here? I types the name of a well-known sports writer/supported and it got asterisked out TWICE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Just listened to radio norfolk interviewing the director of the RSPB on his opinion of the Aug 12th grouse.....his reply was...................................................... " i do not like the idea of standing in a butt, waiting for wild birds to be pushed together to fly thro the butts and be shot in front and going away".....if i were to shoot grouse i would much prefer to be out with a few mates and dogs , walking thro the hills and the heather hunting the grouse using skill and dogs" A few years ago I had the privilege of doing exactly that. A mate of mine and I had a day walking up grouse, just us two with a guide each and their dogs. We walked for miles amongst beautiful scenery and had a few grouse to try and shoot. An amazing day and in MHO far better than sitting in a butt and very much cheaper. So regardless of any hidden agenda he may or may not have had, in my opinion he is very much correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 I cannae afford a box at a top football stadium? Does that make having a box at Chelsea/Man U/Arsenal eliteist? Course it does, Or owning a fancy car. We can't all drive about in Jags/BMW/Mercs etc just as we can't all go grouse shooting Please stop referring to all of my hobbies as elitist, those things were just presents from Daddy... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Just listened to radio norfolk interviewing the director of the RSPB on his opinion of the Aug 12th grouse.....his reply was...................................................... " i do not like the idea of standing in a butt, waiting for wild birds to be pushed together to fly thro the butts and be shot in front and going away".....if i were to shoot grouse i would much prefer to be out with a few mates and dogs , walking thro the hills and the heather hunting the grouse using skill and dogs" A few years ago I had the privilege of doing exactly that. A mate of mine and I had a day walking up grouse, just us two with a guide each and their dogs. We walked for miles amongst beautiful scenery and had a few grouse to try and shoot. An amazing day and in MHO far better than sitting in a butt and very much cheaper. So regardless of any hidden agenda he may or may not have had, in my opinion he is very much correct. But the reality is, without driven grouse shooting and the money it generates, there wouldn't be any walked up grouse shooting either. No one could afford to manage the moors in the way they are now on the back of the income from walked up days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 But the reality is, without driven grouse shooting and the money it generates, there wouldn't be any walked up grouse shooting either. No one could afford to manage the moors in the way they are now on the back of the income from walked up days. I'm not convinced that overall total Grouse revenue exceeds total grouse costs (I don't know, that is a guess on my limited Grouse experiences), it is a very expensive business and whilst commercial to a degree, there can be very few that more than cover their costs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 But the reality is, without driven grouse shooting and the money it generates, there wouldn't be any walked up grouse shooting either. No one could afford to manage the moors in the way they are now on the back of the income from walked up days. Completely agree ColinF. I was just saying that I personally would also prefer to walk up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 Completely agree ColinF. I was just saying that I personally would also prefer to walk up. That's fine, but I would suggest that the reasons you prefer walked up grouse are completely different to the reasons of the RSPB spokesman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 But the reality is, without driven grouse shooting and the money it generates, there wouldn't be any walked up grouse shooting either. No one could afford to manage the moors in the way they are now on the back of the income from walked up days. It's the same with the larger more commercial pheasant/partridge days, wether or not u can afford it or really agree with the big bags, the ammount of money they put into local economies is massive. I know of 2 local shoots that need to turnover around 1 million quid to break even, thats massive for our area and supports a lot of other trades and businesses and jobs, something that DIY syndicates and walked up just don't (most will buy all they need at farm gate) no matter how much more fun they may be. I'm not an accountant by any strech off the imagination but would guess most of the average to good English moors and even some of the marginal ones should be about break even if not profirt each year, different story in scotland thou. I was on a moor yest with a PT keeper and probably shot 250ish brace, yet i go to a moor in scotland next week that has 3 FT keepers who are good at their jobs and work hard yet would be happy to shoot 300brace in the season, they are unfortunate that surrounded by mostly unkeepered ground and commercial forestry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 Please lets not start that elitist garbage as we have already seen the results with the hunting act. Its called "divide and concur" as a tactic used my our enemies and only fools fall for it. For each gun to whom it is just pocket money there is another who has saved hard, then there is the beaters and pickers up, the keepers and their helpers etc. Grouse shooting I should say is far more inclusive than a small pheasant syndicate if you look at the wider picture of involvement. Fact remains these birds are not reared and released just prior to the season and some years there is no surplus crop (did I fail to mention the grouse counts undertaken by the dog men?) So it is never going to be cheap. Three lads I know all saved hard and spent money they had worked hard for just to have the experience at least once in their lives, running a grouse more can be a very expensive hobby but its a rubbish business. 'Divide and concur' .........Kent I enjoy reading the sensible posts you make but this may be an unusual tactic even for the opponents of shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 'Divide and concur' .........Kent I enjoy reading the sensible posts you make but this may be an unusual tactic even for the opponents of shooting. Hey, its all the same to a dyslexic with auto coorect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddaftspaniel Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Just listened to radio norfolk interviewing the director of the RSPB on his opinion of the Aug 12th grouse.....his reply was...................................................... " i do not like the idea of standing in a butt, waiting for wild birds to be pushed together to fly thro the butts and be shot in front and going away".....if i were to shoot grouse i would much prefer to be out with a few mates and dogs , walking thro the hills and the heather hunting the grouse using skill and dogs" Beware weasel words! He is just trying to seem reasonable, trying to occupy the middle ground. The RSPB are quite clear they are trying to get the management of heather moorland for grouse shooting banned. Their first target is to stop driven grouse shooting by outlawing the management practises that are needed to produce a high enough density of grouse for driven shooting. Once they have done that grouse will become an "endangered species" and they will get walked up shooting banned. Beware death by a thousand cuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.