SCOTLAND

[kdubya]

who are the leaders of this new utopia lets have a look ah that's right its the crankies (spelt right)

 

 

[chrisjh]

who are the leaders of this new utopia lets have a look ah that's right its the crankies (spelt right)

 

 

 

weren't they into dogging and swinging :hmm:wonder if they ever well mmmm with Stan Collymore

[AULD YIN]

Wish the mods would close this thread as its a sad reflection on the majority of members on pigeon watch.

johnnie

[STOTTO]

 

Your sentiment is absolutely spot on, in a decision such as this people should be as sure as they possibly can be about the decision they are taking.

 

There are many people on the Yes side who do understand the economic arguments or lack of, but are voting based on other principles and ideology and you have to respect that, might disagree with it, but it is their considered choice.

 

The thing that has really alarmed me is that the debate has turned into a vote of dissatisfaction of current government policy should also equal a Yes vote, i think that is misleading.

 

Quite simply the comment you posted from Robert Peston's blog would be dismissed as scaremongering, the BBC are in the pocket of the Westminster elite and are just trying to frighten the oppressed Scot's into voting no. In fact all of the main stream media are considered the same. It is all a conspiracy to keep the Scot's down at heel.

 

Any business leaders speak out they are just feathering their own nests and are in the pocket of Westminster.

 

There are of course voters who will debate honestly, but sadly a massive amount of people do believe the conspiracy theory - nobody is immune from this, if anyone whether they be a political name, business name, celebrity, academic, etc speaks against the claims of the Yes side it is dismissed as scaremongering.

 

The irony is that the Yes side consider themselves the free thinkers, they are not sheep or brainwashed colonialists, they know it is all a campaign of bluff and bluster to keep the working classes toeing the line to the political and business elite. It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

If the above is indeed the case then:

“Tartan turkeys voting for Christmas” in a thought that comes to mind with the English viewed as in charge of the metaphorical slaughterhouse seen as conspiring to talk them out of committing suicide for our own selfish ends. Sadly many TT’s and slaughter men are egging them on to do it and old resentments and unresolved grievances can be a powerful weapon of population motivation in the bag of tricks of a skilled politician and like it or not that is most certainly what Alex Salmond is. However ‘Stag-nation’ or a slow and painful death of our proud, valued and resourceful ally in the newly created Tartan Turkey Empire is a prospect that fills me with sorrow!

[kdubya]

Wish the mods would close this thread as its a sad reflection on the majority of members on pigeon watch.

johnnie

lighten up man the sun will be back out in February

 

KW

[AULD YIN]

lighten up man the sun will be back out in February

 

KW

You try very hard to be a comedian but sadly for the rest of us your not

johnnie

[grrclark]

If the above is indeed the case then:

“Tartan turkeys voting for Christmas” in a thought that comes to mind with the English viewed as in charge of the metaphorical slaughterhouse seen as conspiring to talk them out of committing suicide for our own selfish ends. Sadly many TT’s and slaughter men are egging them on to do it and old resentments and unresolved grievances can be a powerful weapon of population motivation in the bag of tricks of a skilled politician and like it or not that is most certainly what Alex Salmond is. However ‘Stag-nation’ or a slow and painful death of our proud, valued and resourceful ally in the newly created Tartan Turkey Empire is a prospect that fills me with sorrow!

 

Turkeys voting for Christmas is a fair analogy, at least from my perspective.

 

I do believe that with the right leadership and the right societal attitude then Scotland could prosper as an independent nation, but then again with the right societal attitude the collective UK could flourish a great deal also.

 

If there is a Yes vote and the electorate and government in power wish to pursue the socialist dream then I personally believe there will be a harsh day of reckoning and that is probably 5 - 10 years away. It will take a couple of generations to truly recover from that.

 

Of course no one really knows what is going to happen, the digital revolution has fundamentally changed the economies of the world over the last 30 years and I think it is absolutely safe to assume that there will enormous changes globally in the next 30 years.

 

I would rather that Scotland was a lot more agile and dynamic in order to face that if we vote Yes, but an increasing reliance on the state is not going to provide for that.

[button]

Dont panic! The Yes campaign was just on the news and when asked about sterling said "there will be a currancy union because that is what is best for the UK!" since when have they had an interest in what is best for the UK?

[kdubya]

Dont panic! The Yes campaign was just on the news and when asked about sterling said "there will be a currancy union because that is what is best for the UK!" since when have they had an interest in what is best for the UK?

how can there be a union the currency we use now is the currency of the united kingdom, if its a yes vote they wont be in the united kingdom will they, so they CANT be part of a union can they.

 

 

KW

[button]

Correct

 

Also said that the drop in shareprice if RBS, Lloyds and Standard Life is nothing to do with the uncertainty of what happens if a yes vote and its because of Syria!

 

 

 

Can you believe anything they say? Think not!

[MartynGT4]

Dont panic! The Yes campaign was just on the news and when asked about sterling said "there will be a currancy union because that is what is best for the UK!" since when have they had an interest in what is best for the UK?

 

Indeed. They're talking about leaving the UK in one sentence, then talking about what's good for the UK in the next. The mind boggles..

[figgy]

It amuses me how they want this that and the other of and from the UK,but don't want to be a part of it.

 

What I do find sad is that in the beginning most Englanders wanted Scotland to stay now I think after talking to people from all walks of life most would if the chance arose,vote for Scotland to go it alone.

 

It's certain to cause some long time resentment which ever way it goes.

 

 

Figgy

[MartynGT4]

You try very hard to be a comedian but sadly for the rest of us your not

johnnie

 

Speak for yourself, I found it quite amusing

[grrclark]

how can there be a union the currency we use now is the currency of the united kingdom, if its a yes vote they wont be in the united kingdom will they, so they CANT be part of a union can they.

 

 

KW

 

That rather depends if you are a Salmond sycophant or not.

 

According to Eck the UK will engage in a formal fiscal currency union with Scotland so we continue to use the pound, backed up by the BoE (the tax payer). Furthermore Scotland will have a rep on the monetary policy committee in the BoE to ensure fair representation of Scotland's interests.

 

Of course that means there would have to be some sort of payment of taxes back into Westminster otherwise all you generous UK folks will be on the hook for us, rather good of you I say.

 

Eck proudly declares that if Scotland votes yes then that will be the sovereign will of the people of Scotland, therefor it has to happen.

 

If the UK does not agree to this then we will continue to use Sterling as a freely traded international currency and refuse to accept any share of the current UK debt, which of course we can do, but at the dreadful expense to our financial services industry. That is why RBS will move south, that is why TSB is registered in London, that is why all the major financial houses will have plans to do something similar.

 

Of course the nationalist argument does not take any account of what anybody else in the UK thinks. It matters not a jot that the main UK parties have all said no, this is purely just a bluff to frighten the Scot's into voting no.

 

Not to mention the irony of screaming and bawling for independence then wanting to stay in bed fiscally. It is shameful.

[markm]

 

Speak for yourself, I found it quite amusing

 

+1

[Zapp]

Wish the mods would close this thread as its a sad reflection on the majority of members on pigeon watch.

johnnie

 

Whilst some members are being true to form and just trying to aggravate, it has been a largely sensible topic with some very good contributions for and against. As long as it remains that way it will remain open.

[grrclark]

It amuses me how they want this that and the other of and from the UK,but don't want to be a part of it.

 

What I do find sad is that in the beginning most Englanders wanted Scotland to stay now I think after talking to people from all walks of life most would if the chance arose,vote for Scotland to go it alone.

 

It's certain to cause some long time resentment which ever way it goes.

 

 

Figgy

 

I think it is really sad Figgy, there has always been rivalry between north and south of the border and some small minded people on both sides saw it as something more, but I think this whole campaign has sown the seeds for real bitter resentment and much wider spread. That has and is happening in Scotland too, it has set people against each other.

 

No matter what way the vote goes I think it will get worse. If it is no then the rest of the UK will see Westminster as having to buy the Scottish vote by giving even more, whether it is true or not. The yessers in Scotland will see it as a traitorous affront to democracy by the no camp and cry foul and it will rumble on for generations.

 

If it is a yes vote then the rest of the UK is entitled to play hardball in any negotiations and this will be seen by the Scots as trying to shaft us in a last act of defiance and cement any feelings of resentment.

 

Reasonable people will perhaps understand, but the majority will react to sentiment.

[kdubya]

 

I think it is really sad Figgy, there has always been rivalry between north and south of the border and some small minded people on both sides saw it as something more, but I think this whole campaign has sown the seeds for real bitter resentment and much wider spread. That has and is happening in Scotland too, it has set people against each other.

 

No matter what way the vote goes I think it will get worse. If it is no then the rest of the UK will see Westminster as having to buy the Scottish vote by giving even more, whether it is true or not. The yessers in Scotland will see it as a traitorous affront to democracy by the no camp and cry foul and it will rumble on for generations.

 

If it is a yes vote then the rest of the UK is entitled to play hardball in any negotiations and this will be seen by the Scots as trying to shaft us in a last act of defiance and cement any feelings of resentment.

 

Reasonable people will perhaps understand, but the majority will react to sentiment.

Absolutely spot on, the resentment to either result will become a festering sore that will put today's light hearted jibes to shame, I know my company for instance should there be a yes vote will have no long term future (salmond has actually said so) and should a no vote prevail I dont think my company would have the confidence to plan for the long term.

 

KW

[AULD YIN]

 

Whilst some members are being true to form and just trying to aggravate, it has been a largely sensible topic with some very good contributions for and against. As long as it remains that way it will remain open.

I thank you for the reply.

johnnie

[AULD YIN]

 

Speak for yourself, I found it quite amusing

I stand corrected,me ,myself ,alone find him unfunny.

johnnie

[aris]

That rather depends if you are a Salmond sycophant or not.

 

According to Eck the UK will engage in a formal fiscal currency union with Scotland so we continue to use the pound, backed up by the BoE (the tax payer). Furthermore Scotland will have a rep on the monetary policy committee in the BoE to ensure fair representation of Scotland's interests.

 

Of course that means there would have to be some sort of payment of taxes back into Westminster otherwise all you generous UK folks will be on the hook for us, rather good of you I say.

 

Eck proudly declares that if Scotland votes yes then that will be the sovereign will of the people of Scotland, therefor it has to happen.

 

If the UK does not agree to this then we will continue to use Sterling as a freely traded international currency and refuse to accept any share of the current UK debt, which of course we can do, but at the dreadful expense to our financial services industry. That is why RBS will move south, that is why TSB is registered in London, that is why all the major financial houses will have plans to do something similar.

 

Of course the nationalist argument does not take any account of what anybody else in the UK thinks. It matters not a jot that the main UK parties have all said no, this is purely just a bluff to frighten the Scot's into voting no.

 

Not to mention the irony of screaming and bawling for independence then wanting to stay in bed fiscally. It is shameful.

Scotland will have no choice but to use sterling - even if they have no control over it. If they float their own currency, everyone's borrowings will still be in GBP. If the Scottish pound tanks 10% after flotation (quite plausible) Scots will have to come up with 10% more to pay their mortgage.

 

Of course, both the government and consumers could default on their obligations - if so, welcome to junk status for Scottish bonds.

[grrclark]

Absolutely spot on, the resentment to either result will become a festering sore that will put today's light hearted jibes to shame, I know my company for instance should there be a yes vote will have no long term future (salmond has actually said so) and should a no vote prevail I dont think my company would have the confidence to plan for the long term.

 

KW

 

I think that fear is more widespread then people may believe, but a lot of business will not say anything for fear of spooking staff or investors.

 

There has actually been an orchestrated campaign from the pro yes grass roots movement for their supporters to boycott businesses that speak out in favour of a no. Whether that is making a material difference I don't know, but it has had the desired effect to quieting the dissenting voices.

 

There have been notable business figures and academics who will privately talk about opposition, but don't say anything publicly due to the adverse reaction from the Scottish government. It is institutional bullying.

 

I personally know a few ex SNP MSPs/prospective MSPs that fell foul of wee Eck and got huckled out the party. I also know a few business people who have also crossed swords with Eck and are keeping their feelings very private.

[button]

 

That rather depends if you are a Salmond sycophant or not.

 

According to Eck the UK will engage in a formal fiscal currency union with Scotland so we continue to use the pound, backed up by the BoE (the tax payer). Furthermore Scotland will have a rep on the monetary policy committee in the BoE to ensure fair representation of Scotland's interests.

 

Of course that means there would have to be some sort of payment of taxes back into Westminster otherwise all you generous UK folks will be on the hook for us, rather good of you I say.

 

Eck proudly declares that if Scotland votes yes then that will be the sovereign will of the people of Scotland, therefor it has to happen.

 

If the UK does not agree to this then we will continue to use Sterling as a freely traded international currency and refuse to accept any share of the current UK debt, which of course we can do, but at the dreadful expense to our financial services industry. That is why RBS will move south, that is why TSB is registered in London, that is why all the major financial houses will have plans to do something similar.

 

Of course the nationalist argument does not take any account of what anybody else in the UK thinks. It matters not a jot that the main UK parties have all said no, this is purely just a bluff to frighten the Scot's into voting no.

 

Not to mention the irony of screaming and bawling for independence then wanting to stay in bed fiscally. It is shameful.

Spot on!

 

There seems to be alot of the Yes campaign telling eveyone what is going to happen only problem is they need others agreement maybe they think they can bully their way to get their own way!

Is that the basis for a "fair and just Scotland"?

 

Wonder what changes there would be to gunlaws?

[Laird Lugton]

 

I think it is really sad Figgy, there has always been rivalry between north and south of the border and some small minded people on both sides saw it as something more, but I think this whole campaign has sown the seeds for real bitter resentment and much wider spread. That has and is happening in Scotland too, it has set people against each other.

 

No matter what way the vote goes I think it will get worse. If it is no then the rest of the UK will see Westminster as having to buy the Scottish vote by giving even more, whether it is true or not. The yessers in Scotland will see it as a traitorous affront to democracy by the no camp and cry foul and it will rumble on for generations.

 

If it is a yes vote then the rest of the UK is entitled to play hardball in any negotiations and this will be seen by the Scots as trying to shaft us in a last act of defiance and cement any feelings of resentment.

 

Reasonable people will perhaps understand, but the majority will react to sentiment.

 

If there is a "Yes" vote and it goes horribly wrong due to a very left wing Scottish Government (which I'm pretty sure it will as good jobs move South) ill feeling between Scots may turn violent as cuts deepen.

 

Last month I flew right over Sarajevo, looks a peaceful enough place now but their road to independence was not an easy one.

[shaun4860]

Absolutely spot on, the resentment to either result will become a festering sore that will put today's light hearted jibes to shame, I know my company for instance should there be a yes vote will have no long term future (salmond has actually said so) and should a no vote prevail I dont think my company would have the confidence to plan for the long term.

 

KW

Friend of mine works for one of the big insurance companies in Edinburgh,

 

They plan to return to London if its a yes vote, my friend lives up here and commutes daily,

 

Doesn't know where he stands if they return to London