johnnytheboy Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Updated with a few more Cartridge Velocity Test Light Game Cartridges 1430fps Cheddite Free Shots 30g 1378fps Rio Game 30g 1300fps Gamebore Velocity 29g 1289fps Hull Special Pigeon 29g 1285fps Mirage T2 Game 28g Medium Game Cartridges 32g 1437fps Clever/Mirage Xpert Game 1409fps Rio Royal 1404fps Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 1336fps RC SIPE 1330fps Gamebore Black Gold 1328fps Proper SIPE 1309fps Viri/FOB Super 1306fps Rottweil Tiger 1297fps Proper Hi-Speed 1288fps Gamebore Pure Gold 1287fps Lyalvale Supreme Game 1284fps Eley VIP 1277fps Hull High Pheasant Extreme 1277fps Baikal Record 1244fps Gamebore Clear Pigeon 1229fps Hull Special Pigeon 1225fps Hull High Pheasant Heavy Game Cartridges 1387fps Mirage HV 36g 1349fps Rottweil Waidmannshiel 36g 1345fps RC JK5 T3 35g 1327fps RC JK6 T5 36g 1309fps Cheddite Percorso 36g 1291fps Gamebore Pigeon Extreme 34g 1287fps Rottweil Super Game 36g Semi Magnum 2.75" Cartridges 1406fps Mirage Royal Winter 40g 1353fps Cheddite T5 42g 1351fps RC 40 1349fps Rio Mini Magnum 40g 1299fps Victory Mini Magnum 40g 1207fps Lyalvale Super Game 42g 1171fps Gamebore Buffalo 42g Magnum 3" Cartridges 1322fps Cheddite Magnum 50g 1288fps RC 50 1252fps Mirage Magnum 50g 1238fps Hull Solway 50g 1226fps Fiocchi 50g 1184fps Gamebore Mammoth 50g 1181fps Lyalvale Max Game 50g 1167fps Hull Ultramax 42g Super Magnum 3.5" 1321fps Gamebore Mammoth 62g 1195fps Fiocchi Ultra Magnum 63g Non Toxic Game 2.75" 1413fps RC Atomic Steel 32g 1399fps Mirage Steel 32g 1396fps Gamebore Super Steel 32g 1382fps Rio Blue Steel 32g 1372fps Bornaghi Steel 36g 1290fps Cheddite Steel 32g 1282fps Cheddite Steel 34g 1262fps Hull Steel Game Extra 32g 1245fps Eley VIP Bismuth 32g 1152fps Gamebore Impact Tungsten Matrix 32g Steel Game 3" 1373fps Eley Lightening Steel 36g 1336fps Gamebore Super Steel 36g 1226fps Hull Solway Magnum Steel 34g 1197fps Remington Sportsman Steel 36g Steel Super Magnum 3.5" 1428fps Gamebore Mammoth Steel 42g Clay Cartridge 1470fps Cheddite Mach 3 HV 24g 1383fps Kent Velocity 28g 1374fps Cheddite Universal Trap 24g 1361fps Cheddite Mach 3 Free Shots 28g 1359fps Cheddite Trap Oro 24g 1358fps Cheddite Drago Skeet T3 24g 1347fps Cheddite Smart Strike 28g 1342fps Cheddite Mach 3 28g 1328fps Hull Super Fast 27g 1326fps Cheddite Smart Strike 24g 1320fps Rio Target 28g 1318fps Lyalvale Super Comp 28g 1282fps Lyalvale Power Blue 28g 1268fps Lyalvale English Sporter 1254fps Mirage Supertarget 28g 1214fps Hull Comp X 28g 20g 1425fps Cheddite T1 24g Fibre Wad 1339fps Lyalvale Special Pigeon 21g 1322fps Fiocchi 30g 1280fps Fiocchi 3" Magnum 1273fps RC Semi Magnum 32g 1260fps RC JK6 T3 26g 1244fps Viri/FOB 30g 1224fps Gamebore Pure Gold 28g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 **** admin error with the Ultramax Cartridge Velocity Test Light Game Cartridges 1430fps Cheddite Free Shots 30g 1378fps Rio Game 30g 1300fps Gamebore Velocity 29g 1289fps Hull Special Pigeon 29g 1285fps Mirage T2 Game 28g Medium Game Cartridges 32g 1437fps Clever/Mirage Xpert Game 1409fps Rio Royal 1404fps Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 1336fps RC SIPE 1330fps Gamebore Black Gold 1328fps Proper SIPE 1309fps Viri/FOB Super 1306fps Rottweil Tiger 1297fps Proper Hi-Speed 1288fps Gamebore Pure Gold 1287fps Lyalvale Supreme Game 1284fps Eley VIP 1277fps Hull High Pheasant Extreme 1277fps Baikal Record 1244fps Gamebore Clear Pigeon 1229fps Hull Special Pigeon 1225fps Hull High Pheasant Heavy Game Cartridges 1387fps Mirage HV 36g 1349fps Rottweil Waidmannshiel 36g 1345fps RC JK5 T3 35g 1327fps RC JK6 T5 36g 1309fps Cheddite Percorso 36g 1291fps Gamebore Pigeon Extreme 34g 1287fps Rottweil Super Game 36g 1167fps Hull Ultramax 36g Semi Magnum 2.75" Cartridges 1406fps Mirage Royal Winter 40g 1353fps Cheddite T5 42g 1351fps RC 40 1349fps Rio Mini Magnum 40g 1299fps Victory Mini Magnum 40g 1207fps Lyalvale Super Game 42g 1171fps Gamebore Buffalo 42g 1146fps Hull Ultramax 42g Magnum 3" Cartridges 1322fps Cheddite Magnum 50g 1288fps RC 50 1252fps Mirage Magnum 50g 1238fps Hull Solway 50g 1226fps Fiocchi 50g 1184fps Gamebore Mammoth 50g 1181fps Lyalvale Max Game 50g Super Magnum 3.5" 1321fps Gamebore Mammoth 62g 1195fps Fiocchi Ultra Magnum 63g Non Toxic Game 2.75" 1413fps RC Atomic Steel 32g 1399fps Mirage Steel 32g 1396fps Gamebore Super Steel 32g 1382fps Rio Blue Steel 32g 1372fps Bornaghi Steel 36g 1290fps Cheddite Steel 32g 1282fps Cheddite Steel 34g 1262fps Hull Steel Game Extra 32g 1245fps Eley VIP Bismuth 32g 1152fps Gamebore Impact Tungsten Matrix 32g Steel Game 3" 1373fps Eley Lightening Steel 36g 1336fps Gamebore Super Steel 36g 1226fps Hull Solway Magnum Steel 34g 1197fps Remington Sportsman Steel 36g Non Toxic Super Magnum 3.5" 1428fps Gamebore Mammoth Steel 42g 1212fps Gamebore Impact Tungsten Matrix 60g Clay Cartridge 1470fps Cheddite Mach 3 HV 24g 1383fps Kent Velocity 28g 1374fps Cheddite Universal Trap 24g 1361fps Cheddite Mach 3 Free Shots 28g 1359fps Cheddite Trap Oro 24g 1358fps Cheddite Drago Skeet T3 24g 1347fps Cheddite Smart Strike 28g 1342fps Cheddite Mach 3 28g 1328fps Hull Super Fast 27g 1326fps Cheddite Smart Strike 24g 1320fps Rio Target 28g 1318fps Lyalvale Super Comp 28g 1282fps Lyalvale Power Blue 28g 1268fps Lyalvale English Sporter 1254fps Mirage Supertarget 28g 1214fps Hull Comp X 28g 20g 1425fps Cheddite T1 24g Fibre Wad 1339fps Lyalvale Special Pigeon 21g 1322fps Fiocchi 30g 1280fps Fiocchi 3" Magnum 1273fps RC Semi Magnum 32g 1260fps RC JK6 T3 26g 1244fps Viri/FOB 30g 1224fps Gamebore Pure Gold 28g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 blimey,so what does this all mean then??other than you have access to lots of different cartridges!! Is this velocity at muzzle? but in practical terms what do we learn? I am not being a twit just don't know what it tells me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 One metre from the muzzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Are these all plastic wad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Dont suppose you have done Comp X 21g Fibre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchy trigger Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) I find it interesting, as long as the parameters are the same for every shot, along with them being an average of a few shots, it enables us, the great unwashed, to compare like for like, enabling us to make up our own minds, instead of trusting the exaggerated advertising hype Edited September 25, 2014 by itchy trigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hi Thanks for posting the results of your tests very informative and exhaustive All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchy trigger Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hi Thanks for posting the results of your tests very informative and exhaustive All the best Of I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Just for a minute let's assume that all those detailed are No 6 lead. Unless I've missed any, the fastest is the 1470 and the slowest 1146. For the No 6, 50 yards is about the maximum range and at that distance the 1470 would be 582ft/sec and 1.2ft/lbs and the 1146, 536 and 1.0 respectively. So what it's telling us is that as ever it's the pattern that counts and not the MV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Fibre wads won't chrono Shaun, as the puff of smoke out the barrel obscures the chrono, the only one that did was the 20 bore cheddite t1. That's a pain as I use Blue a Lightening and RC ORO which are fibre wads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 ... So what it's telling us is that as ever it's the pattern that counts and not the MV And some of those that I've found to produce the better patterns and results are amongst the slower off the grid ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 And some of those that I've found to produce the better patterns and results are amongst the slower off the grid ... +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigeon jim Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Got that chrono working well, and not even shot it yet! Not like someone you know!! Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Which ones seeker/wymberley have you got any pattern plate picture you can put up to show us please, I find all this stuff really interesting! I find the Rio Royal wad petals fracture very consistently, quite allot of the cartridges have B&P wads which don't seem to fracture vary well, in fact they consistently fracture on one side causing the wad to pull off to one side! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hi Just to the viewers of this post the OP Has fired 100 different types of cartridge her I don't know how many of each but to buy a box of each to do this sort of testing is over £500 so a big thank you for sharing a major investment with us All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Which ones seeker/wymberley have you got any pattern plate picture you can put up to show us please, I find all this stuff really interesting! Unfortunately, not now. Some years back (sadly too many), I could have bombarded you with sheets of paper. Please note that when I agreed with seeker, he said that, "some of those". Talking of agreement, one can do no other than do so with Old farrier. Just like proof marks, the methods of measuring so called MVs have continually changed over time and it's therefore no wonder that people can get confused. As my figures reflect, there is no great difference in velocity (and therefore energy) down range between the slowest and the fastest loads - except to one's shoulder. Consequently, I stopped paying any attention to the advertised velocities and concentrated more on what I considered to be an acceptable recoil coupled to a good pattern using the 'patchiness' method. From your list, it comes as no surprise that two results in particular - one as advertised and one way out - are as you have shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 There should be one standard for velocity and that is 2.5 metres from the muzzle as this is what speed they are actually doing. None of this factoring in whatever they like and add 100 fps to get a hugely over estimated muzzle velocity. No cheating or marketing clap trap then, just the average speed data. In fact I think the proof house should be the ones who tell the manufacturer what speed they can publish. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) Fibre wads won't chrono Shaun, as the puff of smoke out the barrel obscures the chrono, the only one that did was the 20 bore cheddite t1. That's a pain as I use Blue a Lightening and RC ORO which are fibre wads! What was the chrono measuring - the speed of the wad, or the speed of the shot? Edited September 26, 2014 by aris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipper Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 As Wymberley " stated no great difference down range a lot of people seem obsessed with speed .When Remington r x p appeared one of my buddies shot trench he is a top shot . He was telling me how fast they were he showed me the box it read 1200 MV . If a survey was carried out I would bet HV is a younger guns thing. Dipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Sorry no pattern pics ... Long gone. The chrono should be picking up the shadow of the shot which is still a very tight group at that range if the various high speed photos are anything to go by? Ive chronoed fibre wads before and got readings at 5/8+ feet even when a kwad hit the box.. Instead of the plastic light difusers i use a square of white corex on some longer thin dowel rods for a larger aperture and easy, cheap replacement. Again going by some of the hi-speed photos the fibre wad begins to lag and do it's own thing fairly early given it has has the aerodynamics of a ... and the plaswads don't stay with the shot for long either, the petals opening act as an air brake.. As discussed before i prefer the idea of "observed velocity", (av. of 9' & 20'velocities???) it seems to be more real world and used to be on the box of some brands. Thanks for your data and time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Sorry no pattern pics ... Long gone. The chrono should be picking up the shadow of the shot which is still a very tight group at that range if the various high speed photos are anything to go by? Ive chronoed fibre wads before and got readings at 5/8+ feet even when a kwad hit the box.. Instead of the plastic light difusers i use a square of white corex on some longer thin dowel rods for a larger aperture and easy, cheap replacement. Again going by some of the hi-speed photos the fibre wad begins to lag and do it's own thing fairly early given it has has the aerodynamics of a ... and the plaswads don't stay with the shot for long either, the petals opening act as an air brake.. As discussed before i prefer the idea of "observed velocity", (av. of 9' & 20'velocities???) it seems to be more real world and used to be on the box of some brands. Thanks for your data and time Yep, the mean observed velocity over 20 yards equates approximately to the actual velocity at 9 yards. Results from the BRL reflect that for a MV of some 380m/s, at 2 metres the velocity is 367m/s and that the signal received by the skyscreen for the wad was timed at somewhat less than 1 milli second after that for the leading edge of the shot. So, yep, one lump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted September 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Anyone ever pattern fibre wads vs plastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Anyone ever pattern fibre wads vs plastic? BASC .... about 10yrs ago, I think it was a part of the ballistic research project?, and was published in their magazine, but i do not think it's on line? The other article "Cartridge Patterning- We need to do it better" is on their site as a pdf .... (Googit) Seems you've got the. Check-the-facts-not the-hype bug .... can be addictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Hi Thanks again OP this is great stuff I've been a firm believer in patterning the cartridge in the gun and learned a lot however I have also noticed that the hardness of the shot and some that have been copper plated can make a large difference in how they peforme ie actually kill stuff Just wondered if you had any thoughts on it Hope you don't mind me asking All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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