Kes Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 That was my point even if not made very well Hamilton had been reported to the police and i believe so was Ryan! And we all wish they had done the right thing then! If they had the same sort of info weather it be right or wrong I'm sure we would all hope they looked in to it! Apologies for my mistake. Its hard to see how any new approach, not involving new powers will ensure greater vigilance than was necessary in the case mentioned. As for suggesting we or our guns are remotely linked to terrorism - thats a bit like saying Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Say it and it WILL be believed - falsely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) I can,t see what the fuss is about if they call round they will just check your licence , guns ,security, similar to what your firearms officer does when your renewing your licence if everythings in order theres nothing to worry about Edited October 15, 2014 by yickdaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I can,t see what the fuss is about if they call round they will just check your licence , guns ,security, similar to what your firearms officer does when your renewing your licence if everythings in order theres nothing to worry about Oh dear.talking like that you will be sent to sit on the naughty step alongside me by the pw elders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Apologies for my mistake. Its hard to see how any new approach, not involving new powers will ensure greater vigilance than was necessary in the case mentioned. As for suggesting we or our guns are remotely linked to terrorism - thats a bit like saying Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Say it and it WILL be believed - falsely. I agree 100%. the police looked in to my passed when I applied for my SC and FAC (and have a very big file most of which is about someone i sold a car to many years ago) and they keep an eye on me, if I were to do any thing wrong it would be passed on to the firearms department and they should look in to it. But to say there is a link between me or any SC or FAC is nuts, if that was the case they wouldn't have given us the certificates in the first place! The more i read about this the more I think it's just an ill thought out statment on the polices part and probably not supported by most police officers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 No the reason you do not have your handguns is because some nutters went around killing people and the Blair men used it to win favour with the populous. But having said that the people who used these guns never stood up and made noise.I was in London for the marches against the people of the towns and cities when they wanted to take hunting where we're you.I was also in the fuel blockade at the refinery in protest at the cost where we're you then so please don't talk of bending you know nothing.the public have a very low opinion of the shooting community and all your attitude of aggression against the police is only going to strengthen their bias.perhaps when some of you grow up enough to realise that the system will also protect you and your rights if you work within it and follow the rules.instead of ranting on a forum perhaps it would do you all more good if you joined basc and gave them a real mandate to go fight your corner.but most of England's gun holders won't spend the few pounds to protect the sport they claim to hold so dear.if you lose shooting in your lifetime blame yourselves not the people who kept it for years before you. We're getting off topic here but I can't ignore this. Firstly, many handgun owners did make a noise, which embarrassed BASC into stating that it would be best to keep a 'low profile', (don't want to be tarred with that bunch of nut nuts do we? Amazingly this was the opinion of the NPA also, and the NRA, having flashbacks to Hungerford, broke out into a spasm of bedwetting) which spawned a new shooting organisation hell bent on ignoring the other shooting organisations advice and to fight against the outrageous injustice aimed at hand gunners. i know because I not only joined that organisation but was featured in a national newspaper and interviewed twice on local radio, where I was subjected to much abuse for doing so. The 'system' failed to protect me or my rights as much as it failed to protect the children of Dunblane; the 'system' let them down in the most tragic way possible. It wont do you, me or anyone else any good to join BASC for the simple reason that as the UK's biggest shooting representative they have had for years a 'mandate to fight' our corner, and this equally applied back at the time of Dunblane, but time after time it would appear they lack the will to do so. To get back on topic, UK shooters, despite being vetted and licensed by police authorities prior to becoming legitimate firearms owners have now been deemed by ACPO to be worthy of suspicion to the extent they have convinced ministers in the HO that it is necessary to introduce a new 'initiative' and issue guidelines (I'm assuming you've read them now) for that initiative to the very body which vetted us in the first place to follow when they call 'unannounced' on firearms owners! I'm confused as to why some find this acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Oh dear.talking like that you will be sent to sit on the naughty step alongside me by the pw elders. Think I might be there as well! If the police have reason to think I my be a risk I would hope they would look in to it as I would want the to look in to anyone else fac holder or not, If they have no reason why should they or why should they try to make up a reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 why should they try to make up a reason For the same reason the Association of Chief Police Officers have made up this latest one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 We're getting off topic here but I can't ignore this. Firstly, many handgun owners did make a noise, which embarrassed BASC into stating that it would be best to keep a 'low profile', (don't want to be tarred with that bunch of nut nuts do we? Amazingly this was the opinion of the NPA also, and the NRA, having flashbacks to Hungerford, broke out into a spasm of bedwetting) which spawned a new shooting organisation hell bent on ignoring the other shooting organisations advice and to fight against the outrageous injustice aimed at hand gunners. i know because I not only joined that organisation but was featured in a national newspaper and interviewed twice on local radio, where I was subjected to much abuse for doing so. The 'system' failed to protect me or my rights as much as it failed to protect the children of Dunblane; the 'system' let them down in the most tragic way possible. It wont do you, me or anyone else any good to join BASC for the simple reason that as the UK's biggest shooting representative they have had for years a 'mandate to fight' our corner, and this equally applied back at the time of Dunblane, but time after time it would appear they lack the will to do so. To get back on topic, UK shooters, despite being vetted and licensed by police authorities prior to becoming legitimate firearms owners have now been deemed by ACPO to be worthy of suspicion to the extent they have convinced ministers in the HO that it is necessary to introduce a new 'initiative' and issue guidelines (I'm assuming you've read them now) for that initiative to the very body which vetted us in the first place to follow when they call 'unannounced' on firearms owners! I'm confused as to why some find this acceptable. Well said - a large number of us were also on the Countryside March and on previous protests, little good has it done us. We are constantly being portrayed as the bad guys, deemed dangerous because we like to shoot.. This latest attempt to link legally held guns to terrorism links all shooters to terrorism, I cannot see that as a 'good thing'. Anyone who accpets the proposal with no incling of where it might lead is sleepwalking into a non-shooting oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clakk Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 common sense as always kes .there was a post on a another forum hit the nail on the head ,our political masters dont want any guns in private hands and will chip away till we have to give them all up.the greens already said theyl ban them outright .derbys m.p chris williamson is a rabbid anti gun nut and has tried to ban them.more rules higher licences and many other ideas to make us look bad so a ban wouldnt bother joe public.america has a united voice for gun ownership.we have back biting ,bickering and division .divided we fall gents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 common sense as always kes .there was a post on a another forum hit the nail on the head ,our political masters dont want any guns in private hands and will chip away till we have to give them all up.the greens already said theyl ban them outright .derbys m.p chris williamson is a rabbid anti gun nut and has tried to ban them.more rules higher licences and many other ideas to make us look bad so a ban wouldnt bother joe public.america has a united voice for gun ownership.we have back biting ,bickering and division .divided we fall gents The thing is most shooters are together in their thinking and join associations to act for the collective good,the largest being BASC,what seems to be lacking at the moment is BASC coming out and fighting and pushing back against these little changes chipping away at our sport.I don't want my association to say they are monitoring the situation or advise to let them know after something has happened,i want them to be vocal and in their face pushing and challenging every time there is a change,of late we are told that things are happening in the background,but all that we get to see is another new thing from the police and BASC again stating they are monitoring the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Well said - a large number of us were also on the Countryside March and on previous protests, little good has it done us. We are constantly being portrayed as the bad guys, deemed dangerous because we like to shoot.. This latest attempt to link legally held guns to terrorism links all shooters to terrorism, I cannot see that as a 'good thing'. Anyone who accpets the proposal with no incling of where it might lead is sleepwalking into a non-shooting oblivion. Large numbers of us were there but a lot of shooters weren't and even more anglers didn't bother! I know of shooters that wouldn't go because they didn't care that hunting was going to be banned and i know anglers that couldn't give a **** about any one that shoots. There are even people on here that couldn't care less if certain shooting sports were banned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRYAN3 Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Certain posters on here are suggesting that Police/Ho etc are linking us to terrorism. Are they though? Or are they saying that terrorists could in theory raid our homes and forcibly take our guns? Whatever they are implying or suggesting though,I still don't like the way things are going. There are too many organisations nibbling away at us and it all looks very orchestrated to me. Mention was made earlier in the thread about signing more petitions,I believe. I didn't look at them because I assumed we would be required to give our names over. WELL thats a surefire way to get one of those visits. Bryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 If they are worried abou Certain posters on here are suggesting that Police/Ho etc are linking us to terrorism. Are they though? Or are they saying that terrorists could in theory raid our homes and forcibly take our guns? Whatever they are implying or suggesting though,I still don't like the way things are going. There are too many organisations nibbling away at us and it all looks very orchestrated to me. Mention was made earlier in the thread about signing more petitions,I believe. I didn't look at them because I assumed we would be required to give our names over. WELL thats a surefire way to get one of those visits. Bryan. If they are worried about us being targeted by terrorists then surly they would have got the FEOs to ring round all the people on their books and said keep an eye out as we believe that you or your guns may be a target to terrorists. But it seams that they are saying is that SC/FAC holders may be sympathetic to terrorist organizations and should be viewed with suspicion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Oh dear.talking like that you will be sent to sit on the naughty step alongside me by the pw elders. for what reason ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 for what reason ? Because by going along with and Co operating with the authorities you are denying the conspiracy theory that some believe is behind it all to get your guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Are we all getting a little paranoid here. Any 'gun' story gets exaggerated and the Press love it especially when there is no big news happening. But I still feel we are not speaking out strongly enough over the pressures we are getting over licensing/costs etc. I was subjected to some stupid stuff on safety by a FEO who quite clearly didn't know what we get up and how fundamentally safe we are. Our various organisation should be arguing for £nil fees (licences/fees are to keep the general public happy and are of no value to us at all) if only to make the public/politicians aware of what is going on here. We also need to separate gun crime from shooting sports - the uninformed public link the two. Get our various orgs together, get some celebrities to speak out and educate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I dont think any gunowner is paranoid - I'm sure they wouldnt be a gun owner very long. Most of what is being said (I include myself) is, I suspect, founded upon experience and more than a little frustration. My first FEO was superb chap. He was a countryman and understood the law fully, was helpful and clearly trying to help people enjoy their sport safely and responsibly. I would have been proud to call him my friend. Since his departure, a number of his personal qualities have been lost. I have heard things like " I dont know why anyone wants to shoot and kill anything" from an FEO. " you wont get approval to shoot deer with a .223 " this for muntjac. " Are you sure you want this land cleared - its a long walk up there". " Its police policy to remove guns from the public - from an FEO. You cant have a deer rifle because I dont think you have any experience of gutting them" - FEO. This is just personal experience and in the last few years. Then Durham decides its policy to shooters should border on provocation, BASC asks all shooters to "cooperate" and implies this is all part of a bigger picture, which, if disturbed, will not be in our best interests. We have shooting organisations recommending we put native geese on the GL, contrary to their specialist members wishes and attempting to argue an unarguable justification against their view. Then the police say they will start "unannounced visits to ensure guns are secure from terrorism". I am sorry but I am fed up. I am a very safe shooter and see increasingly that what used to be a quality in country life is slowly being degraded by people who have not 'lived the life' and care little for the history (good and bad) of the countryside. They care little for the law of the land, interpreting it with a personal bias that any true professional would never allow into his/her work. Then there are shooters who cant see a problem with this 'new direction'. I however have had my shooting for over 50+ years, but being part of this sport means trying to ensure its healthy future for those who will carry on a great country tradition. Hence I would call what I feel frustration. I am not anti-police but I am for fairness and shooters as a group seem to be getting less from certain key players in our sport - one, and a critical one, being the police. I hope thats not a rant. Edited October 16, 2014 by Kes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Maybe in a month I will post the question how many have had one of the new random checks.I doubt it will run to one post let alone the volumes that this has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I am truly amazed at the willy waving and concern here, if shooters comply with storage regulations only positive can come out of this. It is unbelievable that so many think this is something new, Nothing new is happening, the police have always been able to visit, the law has not changed and the police have no new powers of entry. But I suspect a few more pages will follow yet....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenjammer Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 +1. Nor do they have the manpower in the Firearms section or elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) We're getting off topic here but I can't ignore this. Firstly, many handgun owners did make a noise, which embarrassed BASC into stating that it would be best to keep a 'low profile', (don't want to be tarred with that bunch of nut nuts do we? Amazingly this was the opinion of the NPA also, and the NRA, having flashbacks to Hungerford, broke out into a spasm of bedwetting) which spawned a new shooting organisation hell bent on ignoring the other shooting organisations advice and to fight against the outrageous injustice aimed at hand gunners. i know because I not only joined that organisation but was featured in a national newspaper and interviewed twice on local radio, where I was subjected to much abuse for doing so. The 'system' failed to protect me or my rights as much as it failed to protect the children of Dunblane; the 'system' let them down in the most tragic way possible. It wont do you, me or anyone else any good to join BASC for the simple reason that as the UK's biggest shooting representative they have had for years a 'mandate to fight' our corner, and this equally applied back at the time of Dunblane, but time after time it would appear they lack the will to do so. To get back on topic, UK shooters, despite being vetted and licensed by police authorities prior to becoming legitimate firearms owners have now been deemed by ACPO to be worthy of suspicion to the extent they have convinced ministers in the HO that it is necessary to introduce a new 'initiative' and issue guidelines (I'm assuming you've read them now) for that initiative to the very body which vetted us in the first place to follow when they call 'unannounced' on firearms owners! I'm confused as to why some find this acceptable. BASC guidelines have not changed on this subject other than a few new words, the Police have always been able to inspect. Now they are saying they might actually do so you are getting upset. So, it was fine before when they could but seldom did, but now they actually might you are getting upset! Edited October 16, 2014 by Dekers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I am truly amazed at the willy waving and concern here, if shooters comply with storage regulations only positive can come out of this. It is unbelievable that so many think this is something new, Nothing new is happening, the police have always been able to visit, the law has not changed and the police have no new powers of entry. But I suspect a few more pages will follow yet....................... Pray tell me how "positive" can come out of this, more than was previously the case and with which everyone complied without any concern, accepting it was an essential part of Public Safety and being an owner and user of a 'firearm' ? I take it you are happy linking, however indirectly, a terrosrism threat with leagl firearms ownership and use ? I am of a different persuasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Well I was out shooting yesterday and looking at the weather today I am going to go out for a few hours today .also one of my shooting partners has just called to say I am booked into a shoot tomorrow and Sunday.I tell you this erosion of my right to shoot is certainly taking its toll. Edited October 16, 2014 by bostonmick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well I was out shooting yesterday and looking at the weather today I am going to go out for a few hours today .also one of my shooting partners has just called to say I am booked into a shoot tomorrow and Sunday.I tell you this erosion of my right to shoot is certainly taking its toll. If you have nothing to hide, I don't see what all the fuss is about. If they smoke out some who aren't complying with the law then they have done a good job - pretty simple really [iMO] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Pray tell me how "positive" can come out of this, more than was previously the case and with which everyone complied without any concern, accepting it was an essential part of Public Safety and being an owner and user of a 'firearm' ? I take it you are happy linking, however indirectly, a terrosrism threat with leagl firearms ownership and use ? I am of a different persuasion. It's very simple, if everyone does what they are supposed to storage wise, then the Police have wasted their time and we are shown to comply, and be law abiding! This subject is now in the public domain, it wasn't before, therefore we can show in the public domain there is no issue with legal shooters! What's wrong with terrorism and legal firearms ownership being talked about together, if we do our part then we can but prove we are not a problem. This is the biggest NON topic I have ever seen on PW...get over it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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