Dekers Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 What abuse is it open to, Time will tell. Nothing has changed, So you keep saying, so why are some of our shooting organisations 'upset' about the comments made by ACPO? the Police have always been able to use their judgement for an unannounced visit, all they are doing now is actually telling you they can use their judgement for a visit! Again, so you keep saying (you're not the only one getting bored now.. ) but previously I had the option to say it wasn't convenient, now no one seems to be able to tell me whether I can still do so, including you. Do you seriously believe EVERY historical home visit to check firearms was simply a routine, name out of a hat, luck of the draw situation? Apart from the visit I mentioned I've never had a home visit that wasn't pre-arranged, so none of mine were a 'name out of a hat, luck of the draw situation' and I can't recall saying I believed they were. Nobody here can answer your question, perhaps you would care to email the question to your Firearms region and post their response on PW! Good suggestion; do you think I'll get a totally honest unbiased answer? I may ask my shooting organisation first if it's ok with you. I would ask the police, then you have a response in writing you can possibly put to your shooting organisation, after all it is you not the BASC that may get arrested/have guns seized on the night. Yes, time will tell, but I see this as tomorrows chip paper! Remind me of my comments in 3 months after we have had a flood of home visits resulting in numerous arrests and firearms confiscation! If I am wrong I will apologise, perhaps those with an opposing view will concede to do the same if this whole initiative has simply faded away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 As my final thought on this topic. I trust the police/powers that be, are as concerned about IS making EBOLA bombs as they are about the safest group of the British population allowing their guns readily into the hands of these terrorists, Maybe an understanding of the word 'terror' would suggest they have. Didnt we have anthrax letter bombs once ? I would be more concerned about the safety of the data which the police hold on all of us 'gun nuts', rather than making unannounced visits - no chance that data could be accessed by a hacking terror group to target the 'best' guns? No - I'm sure thats all covered. Don't need to hack police records,just join pigeon watch.There are plenty on here listing their guns.So those that don't want neighbours knowing they shoot,tell the whole world on here lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Don't need to hack police records,just join pigeon watch.There are plenty on here listing their guns.So those that don't want neighbours knowing they shoot,tell the whole world on here lol Although I'm not a fan of gun lists in signatures, if their user name doesn't hint at their real name and they don't give their address, it's not a security issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I would ask the police, then you have a response in writing you can possibly put to your shooting organisation, after all it is you not the BASC that may get arrested/have guns seized on the night. Good point, but I don't mind if BASC are arrested as I'm not a member! Yes, time will tell, but I see this as tomorrows chip paper! Unlikely, EU legislation wont allow chips to be wrapped in newspaper anymore. Remind me of my comments in 3 months after we have had a flood of home visits resulting in numerous arrests and firearms confiscation! Okeydokey. If I am wrong I will apologise, perhaps those with an opposing view will concede to do the same if this whole initiative has simply faded away! I don't have 'an opposing view' and have never said I believed you were wrong, so there's no apology required as far as I'm concerned. However, I have never claimed I am right either, but have made observations and asked questions based on ACPO's 'new (but apparently not new) initiative', and the fact some of our shooting organisations feel it necessary to provide links to help shooters lobby their MP's regarding comments made by ACPO in issuing this 'initiative'. But despite some claiming I am either paranoid or exposing myself no one seems to have any answers. So, as the actress said to the bishop, we'll just have to suck it and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) They could ban shooting to tomorrow for all I care, its a hobby which I enjoy but it doesn't rule my life.The experiences I have had with my authority you couldn't make up,if the general public knew what state the licencing authorities are in they would want a ban tomorrow. We are all respectable licence holders but the authorities that govern us are in a right mess and they are grasping at straws to f gain public faith. Edited October 16, 2014 by Davyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 "The Police scenario is broadly we want to check legally held firearms don't get into the hands of terrorists" Given the small number of "lost or stolen" legally held firearms compared to the amount of unlicensed (& unlicensable:e;g handguns/full autos) used in crimes I find that laughable.Although I will co-operate without issue,I sense political rather than logical motives.Security wise I am more concerned that the automatic notification of my doctor on renewal,and thus inclusion of my FAC holder details on the NHS database(with associated chance of leaks)makes me more vulnerable.I have sadly also to say,although I have just renewed my BASC membership and have no axe to grind I am less than pleased with their response on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxie Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) The only knock on the door I fear is the Jehovah witness at 8a.m.on a Sunday morning trying to give you a magazine called AWAKE. Edited October 16, 2014 by maxie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 "The Police scenario is broadly we want to check legally held firearms don't get into the hands of terrorists" Given the small number of "lost or stolen" legally held firearms compared to the amount of unlicensed (& unlicensable:e;g handguns/full autos) used in crimes I find that laughable.Although I will co-operate without issue,I sense political rather than logical motives.Security wise I am more concerned that the automatic notification of my doctor on renewal,and thus inclusion of my FAC holder details on the NHS database(with associated chance of leaks)makes me more vulnerable.I have sadly also to say,although I have just renewed my BASC membership and have no axe to grind I am less than pleased with their response on this issue. It is laughable, (as are many intrusions on legally held firearms) when compared with ILLEGAL fireams. I simply see this as a PR exercise designed for public consumption, there is nothing new in this of any substance, it is just being shouted about now so the public think more is being done! Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Exactly as I see it! It is laughable, (as are many intrusions on legally held firearms) when compared with ILLEGAL fireams. I simply see this as a PR exercise designed for public consumption, there is nothing new in this of any substance, it is just being shouted about now so the public think more is being done! Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 So to gain public faith after multiple licensing failures, they will do spot checks,are they going to make the public aware that they(durham to save paperwork are operating an one condition FAC,and thats an open condition) plus you can go out and but as many bullets in one go as you wish as there is now no restriction on amount to purchase!I think the public would be alarmed if they knew that my 15 yr olds FAC came back open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Politically motivated without doubt. I feel shooters and their support organisation should all fight against this, increased fees or indeed any fees at all. After all why are we licenced and what benefit do we get from this - nothing at all. This is simply so that plod and his masters the HO can reassure joe public. So it is joe public who should pay for our licensing not us. This is the line BASC should take not as we had recently their wholehearted support for an increase! Who is paying their wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 So to gain public faith after multiple licensing failures, they will do spot checks,are they going to make the public aware that they(durham to save paperwork are operating an one condition FAC,and thats an open condition) plus you can go out and but as many bullets in one go as you wish as there is now no restriction on amount to purchase!I think the public would be alarmed if they knew that my 15 yr olds FAC came back open.[ Send it back then if you have fears over the safety aspects of its issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Politically motivated without doubt. I feel shooters and their support organisation should all fight against this, increased fees or indeed any fees at all. After all why are we licenced and what benefit do we get from this - nothing at all. This is simply so that plod and his masters the HO can reassure joe public. So it is joe public who should pay for our licensing not us. This is the line BASC should take not as we had recently their wholehearted support for an increase! Who is paying their wages? Who is paying their wages indeed. Well from around 800k of the people that are sgc/fac holder's only around 12% are paying members so you are wasting your time complaining on here about them as most of the forum members are probably not members.the police and home office know of these figures and from that can tell that the majority of the shooting public are not united so will be easy pickings.you only have yourselves to blame if you lose in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 plus you can go out and but as many bullets in one go as you wish as there is now no restriction on amount to purchase! Don't understand this as this change is the one thing in particular that is to our advantage. You can only buy a quantity that takes you up to that which you are able to possess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 "you only have yourselves to blame if you lose in the end. " A rather unusual comment. Is this made from a position of membership assuming Norfolk Dumpling isnt a member? Or just setting yourself apart in some other way ? Interesting how much publicity this has generated for no apparent change http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/14/Police-Begin-Campaign-Of-Unannounced-Visits-To-Gun-Owners-Homes. When you look at what has been published, its clear saying nothing has changed is to be blind to the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 "you only have yourselves to blame if you lose in the end. " A rather unusual comment. Is this made from a position of membership assuming Norfolk Dumpling isnt a member? Or just setting yourself apart in some other way ? I have no wish to put words in ND's mouth and if I'm wrong, apologies, but I got the impression that the comment referred to shooters who support no shooting organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) According to the American hospital stats 32k a year adult deaths and some 200 children a week either killed or seriously injured.I think they would be well pleased to get the figure down to 9000. You do know that's ALL gun deaths right? as in felons shot by police who make up a large proportion ... Edited October 17, 2014 by srspower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 So to gain public faith after multiple licensing failures, they will do spot checks,are they going to make the public aware that they(durham to save paperwork are operating an one condition FAC,and thats an open condition) plus you can go out and but as many bullets in one go as you wish as there is now no restriction on amount to purchase!I think the public would be alarmed if they knew that my 15 yr olds FAC came back open.[ Send it back then if you have fears over the safety aspects of its issue. It has 3 months ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Something sensible on the subject, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHhQBD-kQrY Edited October 17, 2014 by phaedra1106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Something sensible on the subject, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHhQBD-kQrY My sentiments exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Did he actually say "shouldn't they be out catching criminals?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks for posting the video, Phaedra. OK, I'm a confirmed cynic but is it just me? Suddenly had a thought. The video is well presented. We all know that this is a load of old squit. Some of the shooting organisations, likewise. The ACPO are not stupid so they must also be aware of the fact. So, what could be the real agenda and why now - particularly as the legislation was already previously in place to cater for such visits? Now? well, the FAC regulations have just been amended. For FAC holders, we alone are now responsible for ensuring that the amount of ammunition that we possess is as certificated. Are the police (ACPO) going to trust us to do so or could this simply be an underhanded devious means via the fictional excuse of 'on anti-terrorism grounds' to ensure that we're not building up excessive quantities of ammo - in order to kick start the revolution perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks for posting the video, Phaedra. OK, I'm a confirmed cynic but is it just me? Suddenly had a thought. The video is well presented. We all know that this is a load of old squit. Some of the shooting organisations, likewise. The ACPO are not stupid so they must also be aware of the fact. So, what could be the real agenda and why now - particularly as the legislation was already previously in place to cater for such visits? Now? well, the FAC regulations have just been amended. For FAC holders, we alone are now responsible for ensuring that the amount of ammunition that we possess is as certificated. Are the police (ACPO) going to trust us to do so or could this simply be an underhanded devious means via the fictional excuse of 'on anti-terrorism grounds' to ensure that we're not building up excessive quantities of ammo - in order to kick start the revolution perhaps? If you were stockpiling ammunition wouldn't you just keep it somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Did he actually say "shouldn't they be out catching criminals?" Nice selective quote. He said they should be catching the criminals that steal guns and smuggle them into the UK illegally, rather than focusing on law abiding shooters. As he says, all this reinforces the perception in the minds of the non shooting public that we are dangerous and not to be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 If you were stockpiling ammunition wouldn't you just keep it somewhere else? Yep, sneak it into next door's garage - they're a tad anti so above suspicion. The 'revolution' bit was a throw-away line. Hopefully, the bulk of my post simply reflects that I can see no other possible reason for all the hoo haa when such visits were already catered for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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