Dr_Scholl Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Anyone remember a few months ago when a white cop shot an unarmed black kid in Missouri that sparked weeks of protest and unrest? Well, the grand jury decided not to indict the officer and the excrement has hit the fan. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11251989/Ferguson-riots-Violence-erupts-after-Michael-Brown-police-shooting-verdict.html?frame=3116886 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 No surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 There is far more trouble now than originally after the shooting. As well as the burning of private property, I see there is apparently plenty of opportunistic looting!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I always find it strange how these outraged law abiding citizens show their anger by looting the nearest shop. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 This article is worth a read! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11052845/Michael-Brown-What-the-Ferguson-riots-tell-us-about-race-in-America-today.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Terrible that the kid got shot but ive no sympathy for any opportunistic looters that might get on the wrong end of a citizens AR15 defending his property. Edited November 25, 2014 by deadeye18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I always find it strange how these outraged law abiding citizens show their anger by looting the nearest shop. KW It's their way of showing their hatred of 'the man' don't you know. Anybody who has something they don't is an elitist part of the establishment that keeps them down at heel, so it deserves to be stolen or trashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 There is mucho anger here about that Ferguson shooting. There is a Black guy who hand out free papers to people getting of the busses at the Port Authority in NYC - today he was giving out the papers but shouting at people that they should read how the police have killed an innocent person and that the Jury was wrong. This guy was not a happy man this morning. A lot of hatred for cops in the US at the moment. In all States. Too heavy handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Now with all that rioting and looting happening, Does the laws there allow private citizens to protect their property/posessions by use of deadly force ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Terrible that the kid got shot but ive no sympathy for any opportunistic looters that might get on the wrong end of a citizens AR15 defending his property. he was a death waiting for a happening !!..........did you see the surveillance video of him robbing a store prior to the event.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 No i didnt know he robbed a store.yeah your right then he was bound to catch some lead at some point then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yep - In all states I think. The line is gray (grey if your from the UK) - Its a fine line though, the whole self defense thing. When I get my Firearms ID I wont be getting any guns for self defense. When you go into a gun shop here they always ask if you are looking for a hand gun for self defense. That to me is alien. But I guess it depends what town you live in. I live in a peaceful no trouble town. Cops are great. Go to somewhere like Patterson or Newark in NJ then I would want a gun in my bedside cabinet. Then you have the other type of American citizen that arms themselves to the teeth because, and I quote from one particular gun shop I went to "You never know when they are going to come" I asked who. And the guy just looked at me as if I was stupid. What he actually meant was the government, or zombies. Yep! But back to the original question. yes you can use deadly force. You better make sure they are actually trying to kill you though Bit like shooting a bear out of hunting season. Make sure you dont shoot it in the backside. Instant Jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I think we needed some AR-15s 3 years ago when we had the London riots. Unfortunately if we go by what some people on this forum say there is no need for guns for self-defense in Britain. Incidentally baseball bats and cricket bats sold very well during those times. I think that shows that most of the British public would disagree with that statement if their personal safety was at stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) I'm not a fan of guns for self defense. In some states here all you need is a drivers licensee to get a gun, no background check. There are pro's and cons. in open carry states you hardly get any road rage issues but joking aside the laws should change here although your a brave man to approach that subject. I think as a start there is no need for fully automatic weapons, but again, massive topic, if I walked into any sporting goods store here and said that I would be ripped to shreds. Edited November 25, 2014 by ShaggyRS6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Yep with you on that one steppenwolf. Edited November 25, 2014 by deadeye18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yep - In all states I think. The line is gray (grey if your from the UK) - Its a fine line though, the whole self defense thing. When I get my Firearms ID I wont be getting any guns for self defense. When you go into a gun shop here they always ask if you are looking for a hand gun for self defense. That to me is alien. But I guess it depends what town you live in. I live in a peaceful no trouble town. Cops are great. Go to somewhere like Patterson or Newark in NJ then I would want a gun in my bedside cabinet. Then you have the other type of American citizen that arms themselves to the teeth because, and I quote from one particular gun shop I went to "You never know when they are going to come" I asked who. And the guy just looked at me as if I was stupid. What he actually meant was the government, or zombies. Yep! But back to the original question. yes you can use deadly force. You better make sure they are actually trying to kill you though Bit like shooting a bear out of hunting season. Make sure you dont shoot it in the backside. Instant Jail. But would that be ok to use your guns to protect your property/posessions ?OR, Only IF they were trying to kill/injure You (or other person) rather than posessions or property ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Copied and Pasted: New Jersey self defense gives a person the right to use force against another to protect real property – home - but first the defendant must be in possession or control of the premises or licensed or privileged to be there. In addition, the defendant must reasonably believe that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission of a criminal trespass – unlicensed or unprivileged entry – or against a person committing a more serious offense. Prior to using force the defendant must request the intruder to stop interfering with the property unless the request is useless or dangerous to himself or another to make the request or if substantial harm would be done to the property before the request can effectively be made. A trespasser cannot be expelled by the use of force if the defendant knows that the exclusion will expose him to a substantial danger of serious bodily harm. Deadly force may be used to repel a person attempting or actually committing arson, burglary, robbery, or other criminal theft or property destruction. However, either of two sets of circumstances must be present before deadly force can be used for the protection of premises. First, the occupant reasonably believes that the person against whom it is employed is using or threatening to use deadly force in the occupant’s presence. Or second, a person reasonably believes he could terminate or prevent the commission of a crime but if he used less than deadly force he would expose himself or another to a substantial danger of bodily harm. Same standards apply to protecting personal property except there is never a justification to use deadly force in defense of personal property – no justification for shooting at thief attempting to steal one’s automobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Deadly force may be used to repel a person attempting or actually committing arson, burglary, robbery, or other criminal theft or property destruction. However, either of two sets of circumstances must be present before deadly force can be used for the protection of premises. So, if an owner found looters in his store and they were trying to start a fire in the corner then he has every right to open fire. sounds fair enough to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yeah - And that happens a lot in the US. Not so much in NJ or NY, but where you can open or conceal carry. You have to pick your target wisely as a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 looking at a bit of detail here (and yes its only what we get to see) guy does a little bit of robbery gets confronted by a cop with a gun and when asked nicely to stand still takes a run at him and has a scuffle? yes Darwinism at its very best. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yeah, you do need to have a bit of common sense with cops in the US. I have a friend, from England, works in the local Ford dealer. He had only been here 2 months and he gets pulled over for running a red. He starts arguing with the cop, it was amber vs her it was red. No big deal. She then walked back to her car to write the ticket. He wanted to continue the argument so got out the car and followed her. Bad move. She pulled her gun. He continued to walk toward her, to be honest its probably lucky he is alive to tell the tail. Eventually he laid on the ground and they arrested him. The point is, you never know who is armed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovercoupe Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 One store on tv news being looted is "Dollar Tree" which I presume is a us pound shop, is it really worth it for 5 packs of lighters and plastic combs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 One store on tv news being looted is "Dollar Tree" which I presume is a us pound shop, is it really worth it for 5 packs of lighters and plastic combs? Just think how many fires you can start with a pack of lighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTEMUP Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Just think how many fires you can start with a pack of lighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuddster Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hardly true of the op to refer to the guy as a kid. Biggest difference with the US is that there are hell of a lot of guns on the street. Any challenge by a cop that is met with non compliance is seen as an act of aggression and hostile intent. The fact no charges have been raised against the cops the demonstrates the precedent is firmly set. Would the outraged locals be looting if a black cop had been shot by a white youth? F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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