Steppenwolf Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 You need to read some real reports and stop being influenced at the anti-gun media telling that anyone carrying a gun or attempting to thwart crime and terrorism with one is at best deluded at worst, criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 attempting to thwart crime and terrorism Wow!! You're starting to sound like Batman now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Apparently I am not the only one saying this. [VIDEO] Australian terror attack spurs questions on effectiveness of gun control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Apparently I am not the only one saying this.[VIDEO] Australian terror attack spurs questions on effectiveness of gun control So 2 dead (not including the gunman) and 4 injured after an assault by highly trained, highly motivated police/army personnel, using the most up to date weapons and entry techniques, and after years of practice. Now we don't know for sure who's bullets hit the dead and injured people but it's unlikely that the bad guy managed to get off all those rounds accurately with bullets flying and stun grenades going off left right and centre. I think it would be fair to assume that at least some of the good guys rounds hit unintended targets? Which would beg the question...what makes you think Joe Public (without the training, motivation and equipment) could take out the bad guy without collateral damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 If you're going to post links, please make sure that the name of the site you are linking to does not contain swear words as this is against house rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Sorry. To reply to poontang. It wouldn't get to a siege situation sicne if someone was conceal carrying they would take the gunman by surprise when he would come in armed and order everyone to the ground. You are confusing an attempt to end a siege to a situation where a first responder (in ideal situation general public) responds to a violent incident. These are 2 different scenarios. Of course a gun might not save a situation if the terrorist plans for all eventualities but it would surely evend the odds out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I think it would be fair to assume that at least some of the good guys rounds hit unintended targets? Which would beg the question...what makes you think Joe Public (without the training, motivation and equipment) could take out the bad guy without collateral damage? I actually agree with you on the bold text. What were the police thinking? I watched the video of the video where they went in to break the siege, I counted around 130-140 individual shots including fully automatic gunfire. NO WONDER civillians also got hurt. It seems liek Australian special forces need more training, no way acceptable for that many shots in an enclosed space with friendlies present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Many of those so called shots were stun/bang grenades, You could see the police throwing them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted December 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Sorry. To reply to poontang. It wouldn't get to a siege situation sicne if someone was conceal carrying they would take the gunman by surprise when he would come in armed and order everyone to the ground. You are confusing an attempt to end a siege to a situation where a first responder (in ideal situation general public) responds to a violent incident. These are 2 different scenarios. Of course a gun might not save a situation if the terrorist plans for all eventualities but it would surely evend the odds out. And if he had a bomb strapped to him? http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2772732/how-gunman-tricked-police-into-thinking-he-had-a-bomb/?cs=298 It could have ended very differently. Sure, this one was fake, but could have just as easily been real. I suspect his tactics may well be different if he thought he may encounter an armed citizen. Have-a-go heroes with guns is not the solution to issues like this. Edited December 18, 2014 by aris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 The aussies should have sent chuck norris in,situation sorted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) what makes you think Joe Public (without the training, motivation and equipment) could take out the bad guy without collateral damage? This is the problem, Joe Public will watch lethal weapon and think the answer is as simple as jumping in through a doorway and flying through the air, while delivering a one handed single pistol shot to the mouth of the terrorist. Cue fame and fortune. The reality is that every possible action needs to be risk assessed against some sort of decision model, can a shot be taken through glass? Yes, but could the bullet deflect and kill a hostage? Could it trigger a suicide type vest? Could it provoke the subject to start killing the hostages? There has to be a contingency for almost anything the subject is likely or unlikely to do and then something in place to deal with it if it arises. Re concealed carry, I've not looked into facts and figures and am not likely to so this is based on opinion only. For all the tough talk on youtube and forums regarding these sort of situations I don't recall ever hearing of anyone stopping an active shooter with a personal weapon they are carrying, I may well be wrong but with all these firearms in circulation in the states and all these brave types carrying them, there never seems to be one around at the time when they are most needed? Edited December 18, 2014 by Muddy Funker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well it does happen occasionally….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Indeed it does and the video shows this, thanks I've not seen that one before.It also shows how when under pressure delivering an effective shot is harder than it looks. I wonder where that last bullet ended up?Going slightly off topic now so I'll shut up. Edited December 18, 2014 by Muddy Funker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well it does happen occasionally….. Not much of a shot is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Have-a-go heroes with guns is not the solution to issues like this. That is of course ytour opinion and I respectfully disagree. I beleive that in America at least there are many cases where potential murderous rampages have been stopped because someone was conceal carrying. Of course these incidents don't get as much media atention since it didn't have a high body count and because the media doesn't like to tackle the elephant in the room. That conceal carried guns overwhelmingly are a force for good and not for bad. Not much of a shot is he? Yeah you could have done better in a high stress rapid fire situation and I get called the armchair warrior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well it does happen occasionally….. One thing that I do not understand with this vid is why do the two bad guys not put up some sort of show at defending themselves could it be that they have airsoft guns not real ones just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Criminals deep down are cowards they go for waht they think is a soft target. When reality hits and a law abiding citizen pulls out a conceal carry gun most **** thier trousers and bail out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 That conceal carried guns overwhelmingly are a force for good and not for bad. I had to laugh when I read this rubbish. Get to Moss Side Manchester, Nottingham, Birmingham and London, where criminals conceal their firearms and are not a force for good. Criminals deep down are cowards they go for waht they think is a soft target. When reality hits and a law abiding citizen pulls out a conceal carry gun most **** thier trousers and bail out. Keep them coming. Proper schoolboy stuff. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I had to laugh when I read this rubbish. Get to Moss Side Manchester, Nottingham, Birmingham and London, where criminals conceal their firearms and are not a force for good. Keep them coming. Proper schoolboy stuff. :lol: So how many law abiding conceal cariers are there in Manchester, Birmingham or all of the above cities you mention? Oh yeah a big fat zero since carring anythiing designed for self-defence is classed as an offensive weapon. So why aren't those criminals in our cities following the laws and carrying illegal guns and weapons? OH BECAUSE CRIMINALS DON'T FOLLOW LAWS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Whenever I read on Forums the ill informed stuff that Steppenwolf is spouting, it always brings this picture to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Brilliant retort! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Cranfield 10/10 for finding that classic. Very apt. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yeah you could have done better in a high stress rapid fire situation and I get called the armchair warrior. And therein lies the problem...there are very few people who are trained to respond to 'high stress rapid fire' situations like the video shows. Maybe you're one who does have the training and experience? Maybe you could tell us what your experience is in high stress, close quarter, rapid fire situations? I ask out of genuine interest, because I need to know that if I'm ever in a hostage situation the guy with the CCW permit knows what the **** he's doing before going all Rambo on the bad guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuddster Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Does call of duty count?? pic is bang on (when I say bang on I dont mean fully auto in a hostage enviroment but more likely Nico 9 bang distraction devices) f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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