derfley Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just had one from Humberside Police, so add them to the list of forces actively doing checks. Mine as done by a PSCO, all very quick and efficient, checked the cabinet, checked my SGC, checked the guns in the cabinet against the SGC, asked about ammo storage and actually knew about the differences in requirements for shotgun shells compared to S1 ammo, asked the usual health/circumstances questions. Whole thing took less than thirty minutes door to door. Somewhat worryingly though they had details of neither of my guns and since details where sent in from one of them shortly after my certificate grant that's over a year ago! The one I purchased as a Christmas present to myself I notified them both by email (since they have to take notifications via email now) and by post. I may just drop BASC an email about the earlier notification later and see what their take is on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 As I understand psco and basic police have no powers to see inside the cabinet only to request to see is and make sure its locked and secured proper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derfley Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 As I understand psco and basic police have no powers to see inside the cabinet only to request to see is and make sure its locked and secured proper As maybe the case, but I have nothing to hide and they wanted to check what was on the certificate against the contents of the cabinet. And you have to open the cabinet to show the fixings anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I have heard of them calling and asking family members to let them in, I have told the wife not to let them in unless I am there then I will decide if its convenient. I have not heard of anyone having an unannounced checks here. health/circumstances What do you mean by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Somewhat worryingly though they had details of neither of my guns and since details where sent in from one of them shortly after my certificate grant that's over a year ago! The one I purchased as a Christmas present to myself I notified them both by email (since they have to take notifications via email now) and by post. It may be interesting to write to your licensing authority and ask why those sent to check your guns against your certificate had no record of your guns but went away quite happily after finding you were in possession of two guns they had no record of. I would inform BASC of this also personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bad lindz Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Did they contact you before knocking on your door ?? If not did you ask to see warant cards and not just go by the man in a uniform ??. It is my understanding that a visit still has to be arranged unless your are suspected of a wrong doing and even then have to have a very good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 It is my understanding that a visit still has to be arranged unless your are suspected of a wrong doing and even then have to have a very good reason. It doesn't have to be wrongdoing by the certificate holder, it could be a family member, neighbour or just intelligence about a rise in crime in the local area. It's all 'supposed' to be based on intelligence. (Rather than simply the licensing department playing 'pick a card, any card' with their files!) They don't have to pre-arrange the visit, but equally they have no power of entry without a warrant, and if it's not convenient to allow them entry, you're within your rights to turn them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derfley Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) health/circumstances What do you mean by that. Same questions they would ask for a grant/renewal. Are you in good health or have any health problems they should know about, change of job/relationship or any recent stress points I'm guessing for the circumstances side of things. It may be interesting to write to your licensing authority and ask why those sent to check your guns against your certificate had no record of your guns but went away quite happily after finding you were in possession of two guns they had no record of. I would inform BASC of this also personally. They certainly have the details of one of the guns as I have a confirmation email of receiving the details, my worry is the one that the details where only sent by post over a year ago. The PSCO seemed to think it was just a case of records not been up to date at their end! I've emailed BASC firearms department (I'm a member) for advice last night as I'm not particularly happy them not having the details. Did they contact you before knocking on your door ?? If not did you ask to see warant cards and not just go by the man in a uniform ??. It is my understanding that a visit still has to be arranged unless your are suspected of a wrong doing and even then have to have a very good reason. No, they are allowed to perform these visits, as has been much discussed on here in previous threads. You are however well within you rights to say that it's not convenient and ask them to re-visit at another time. The purpose of the visit (as stated to me) was to check security requirements are been met. As much as anything I started this thread as a "head's up" for anyone in the Humberside Police licensing area, to let them know that they are doing these checks. Edited January 16, 2015 by derfley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Notice you posted at 8.02pm and say they 'just' visited, so I'm assuming this visit was early evening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I am surprised you didn't ask why they had made the visit. You may have a neighbour who thinks you are a risk, someone thinks your behaviour is concerning or is it your doctor ? So what has changed from your grant? The police must tell you why an unannounced visit and if they dont, I would definately ask my representative group to press for an answer, as well as reporting the fact that the visit took place. It would be interesting to hear what info BASC get for you or what they do, if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolkngood Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 What would be 'classed unacceptable storage' of shot gun ammunition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 What would be 'classed unacceptable storage' of shot gun ammunition? I would also be interested in the answer to that question. It has always been my understanding that no special security arrangements have to be made for the storage of shotgun cartridges. Mine are at home, in clear view, piled up in my "office". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 From the Home Office handbook : Regarding unannounced home visits : Section 19.11 : Where it is judged necessary, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm, the police may undertake an unannounced home visit to check the security of a certificate holder’s firearms and shotguns. It is not expected that the police will undertake an unannounced home visit at an unsocial hour unless there is a justified and specific requirement to do so on the grounds of crime prevention or public safety concerns and the police judge that this action is both justified and proportionate. Section 19.12 : It is recognised that there are no new powers of entry for police or police staff when conducting home visits. To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder the police must provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit. Lastly, regarding ammunition storage : Section 19.38 : As a matter of best practice, ammunition for section 1 firearms should be kept secure and separate from the firearm. Although secure storage of shotgun cartridges is not a requirement of the Firearms Acts, it is recommended that they should be locked away separately for security I keep shotgun cartridges under a bed in the spare room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Would be worth a 'straw - poll' to see who "locks them away seperately". Mine are in my office and also visible. Perhaps the 'locking away' should be challenged explicitly as I reckon 90% of shooters dont do it. I will ask my shooting Org what their view is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolkngood Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 My cartridges are kept in their boxes or cartridge bag on the top shelf (5 foot high) of a built in cupboard with non locking double bi fold doors. The gun safe in in a separate built in cupboard in the same room. I live alone so ( apart from when my teenage daughters stay every other weekend or the girlfriend stays over) nobody else has access. Do you think that would be deemed as unsuitable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Would be worth a 'straw - poll' to see who "locks them away seperately". Mine are in my office and also visible. Perhaps the 'locking away' should be challenged explicitly as I reckon 90% of shooters dont do it. I will ask my shooting Org what their view is. BASC's viewpoint is this : Store your shotgun ammunition separately from your guns. The law does not require you to keep shotgun cartridges secure; however, it is good practice to do so. They are best stored in a cool, dry place where inquisitive children cannot get hold of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 They have a scock coming to mine then I have cartridge next to the gun cabinet open my front door theere about 200 on a side table have about 50 in the living room on the coffie table and then 2slabs in a another bedrom have lose cartridges in several coats laid about the house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolkngood Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 They have a scock coming to mine then I have cartridge next to the gun cabinet open my front door theere about 200 on a side table have about 50 in the living room on the coffie table and then 2slabs in a another bedrom have lose cartridges in several coats laid about the house Hmmmmm? That may not fall within guidelines? But my storage may not either as no hard and fast rule and is subject to individual opinion. I've never had a FAO ask about my shotgun ammo storage on any of their safety visits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I raised this very point with my FEO, he applied a huge amount of common sense! The law says secured separately from your shotgun. Mine are in the house (under the bed in a spare bedroom. My guns are LOCKED in a cupboard. Therefore, the two items are securely locked and separate from each other. So, no problem. What the Police don't like is when people store cartridges in their gun cupboards, with no separate locking area. This would allow a thief to take gun and ammo simultaneously. Guns secured, cartridges also secured (my house is locked at all times, so viewed as a suitably secure storage for cartridges. So, no problems. Don't get too excited thinking you have to put shotgun cartridges in a special safe - especially as I buy them 6000 at a time!! B06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 They have a scock coming to mine then I have cartridge next to the gun cabinet open my front door theere about 200 on a side table have about 50 in the living room on the coffie table and then 2slabs in a another bedrom have lose cartridges in several coats laid about the house A bit like yourself - though most cartridges are under bed in the spare room, there are a few on top of the gun cabinet, so that if a fox is spotted in one of the fields, there's a better chance of getting it, as I've only got to get the key, open cabinet, and then grab gun and cartridges at the same time. The only problem with keeping cartridges in coat pockets is that it's entirely possible to realise when you're in the pub, and reach into said pocket ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Hmmmmm? That may not fall within guidelines? But my storage may not either as no hard and fast rule and is subject to individual opinion. I've never had a FAO ask about my shotgun ammo storage on any of their safety visits. It might not fall within guidelines but it's not contravening anything written in law. Personally mine are in a bedside draw unlocked. FAC ammo is in a small safe in the loft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Sorry to be a killjoy but would anyone like to reveal on this open forum where in the house they keep their spare cash?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 In my wallet. What are you going to do about it? To the OP can just talk us through what happened? Did you get a phone call to make an appointment for instance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 It’s not me that you have to worry about, it’s the short of cash brigade that are the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Who presumably know exactly where I live and have access to my house right? My cartridges are under the stairs by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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