Cyrus1988 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Just been out trying to get a few crows in the wind and rain. Took a shot into the wind at a high crow and missed, but as I watched the crow fly off I saw something falling, at first I was worried it was a feather and I'd pricked the bird but it was just the wad. I went over and picked it up to find that all the petals were still attached together and hadn't opened at all. The wad was a Cheddite Aquila T2 H24, what effect would this have on the shot string and should I be worried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 My other halfs wad don't open either! I blame it on the elastic band and tight pockets!. Try pre fracturing the wads before loading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Nope. No problem, no worries. You should concentrate on shooting accurately instead of if the petals opened. I checked out wads at different speeds, still uneaven stitching breaking. Its what the shot is doing at 40yards, not was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 I think I may be a little concerned, the petals are made to open up to free the shot, that is why you have to cut the cups/wads when loading steel shot so you do not get a solid mass ie a slug. Probably just a freak ocurance if not change to another make of wads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rem708 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 might improve the patten by keeping the shot together for longer! It certainly won't make you miss ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biketestace Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Don't worry about it bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted February 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 It's not very often I find wads that I've shot but ones that I have found before have all had their petals open so hopefully just a freak occurrence. Cheers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 The difference in weight and drag will make sure the wad and shot soon part company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Happens all the time. Not an issue. Fears of a slug, no not at all. Even if they don't open up ballistically they are way behind the shot! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack9494 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Just been out trying to get a few crows in the wind and rain. Took a shot into the wind at a high crow and missed, but as I watched the crow fly off I saw something falling, at first I was worried it was a feather and I'd pricked the bird but it was just the wad. I went over and picked it up to find that all the petals were still attached together and hadn't opened at all. The wad was a Cheddite Aquila T2 H24, what effect would this have on the shot string and should I be worried? This would of just made your shot pattern arrive at different times like they usually do but possibly more extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Interesting topic and replies, but why would the wad manufactures go to all the trouble of creating petals into the wad and the recommended need to cut steel wads to create the petals when home loading if they are not required. They must improve the shot string and reduce the risk of a slug effect. See http://www.gualandi.it/en/products_plastic_wads/piston_skeet.html Not a common problem otherwise we would notice some effect on the clay grounds but gives me a new excuse for missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Even if the petals don't open it will not create a slug! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Go to a professional shooting ground and take a look at the DTL layout when no one is shooting the floor will be littered with them Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I beg to differ on some of the conclusions above....but that's just me Have you ever asked why the wads are pre cut?? surely not aesthetic....me thinks! A wad that doesn't open could mean a lot of things as, under the right conditions, the wad is supposed to open when it leaves the barrel due to the friction with air. This, in a balanced cartridge, ensures an even spread with all the benefits. A fully closed wad will concentrate the wad even more than is supposed to be, same as half an open wad will direct the spread towards the open side of the wad (as it offers less resistence). This phenomenon is fully accentuated when reloading tub wad (SG Magnu, Steel, Federal, LB6, etc) as the unopened wad will, in some case, turn around with pellets in it, and proceed as a bullet. The fused points in a B&P Z2M wad are renowned to be tougher to open than the ones in a Gualandi SG, therefore, to ensure consistency in each shell, some reloaders prefers to open them up manually before reloading them. That said, I wouldn't probably say these is the reason for all the missed shots....but surely they account for some! Since it's all down to pressure anyway if you want a practical example: why don't you try to take a hose, close it half way (in any direction) with your thumb and see what happens when you open the water? That would resemble what happens to your pellets! PS: The above example is for illustration only but works just fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I beg to differ on some of the conclusions above....but that's just me Have you ever asked why the wads are pre cut?? surely not aesthetic....me thinks! A wad that doesn't open could mean a lot of things as, under the right conditions, the wad is supposed to open when it leaves the barrel due to the friction with air. This, in a balanced cartridge, ensures an even spread with all the benefits. A fully closed wad will concentrate the wad even more than is supposed to be, same as half an open wad will direct the spread towards the open side of the wad (as it offers less resistence). This phenomenon is fully accentuated when reloading tub wad (SG Magnu, Steel, Federal, LB6, etc) as the unopened wad will, in some case, turn around with pellets in it, and proceed as a bullet. The fused points in a B&P Z2M wad are renowned to be tougher to open than the ones in a Gualandi SG, therefore, to ensure consistency in each shell, some reloaders prefers to open them up manually before reloading them. That said, I wouldn't probably say these is the reason for all the missed shots....but surely they account for some! Since it's all down to pressure anyway if you want a practical example: why don't you try to take a hose, close it half way (in any direction) with your thumb and see what happens when you open the water? That would resemble what happens to your pellets! PS: The above example is for illustration only but works just fine! I don't buy that at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't buy that at all Me too. No consideration to aero dynamics, wad mass and drag factors. U :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Some high speed footage I saw shows the difference on wads not opening fully opening at all on the pattern, if a petal on one side opens it throws the shot off by moving the whole wad and shot like the flaps on planes, not opening at all can tumble slightly before the wad is slowed and the shot leaves it, a full even opening wad gave the best results. The other wad that give good results that never opened was designed not to open but had air brake type bits that popped out as the wad left the barrel, flight stopper I think or something like that. Edited February 23, 2015 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Our friends over the pond often only slit the wad with two slits if they are shooting at longer range as they believe it holds the shot together a little longer giving a better pattern at range. Not tried it myself , I slit my wads 4 ways , but might be interesting to pattern some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 oh .... it looks as if am not telling bu11**** after all.... so, beware if and when loading tub wad like the ones i mentioned and don't trust your feelings when talking about science (if you're not a scientist) ah, if just people would resign to the fact that certain things aren't questionable.... Fen, i've done patterning and the only noticeable difference is at 35+ mt where the two cuts's wad is more concentrated. In terms of the shell loaded with this wad, you need to consider that they shoot non-toxic; a more compact, centred pattern guarantees better kill's rate even at certain distances. I prefer the 4 ways cut as it guarantees a better spread within my shooting range and because i don't shoot steel yet. I personally use the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Thanks , I only load steel , but if it tightens lead then there is no reason it should not do the same for steel , I will have a play now the season has finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipper Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I use lbc steel wads in low velocity lead loads .Two cuts 3/4 deep if you want tight patterns that's the way to go.Dipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I use lbc steel wads in low velocity lead loads .Two cuts 3/4 deep if you want tight patterns that's the way to go.Dipper. Well, i don't want to be pedantic (and i can hear some of you saying 'Then don't!!'), but.... I hope you tested your shell: steel wads are notorious to increase pressure. It is a good trick at times but need to be proofed. in my view! Also, I think that when using the tube wad you need to systematically cut at the same height to ensure the wad doesn't turn with pellets in it and proceeds as a bullet. Depending on the plastic hardness and design each factory wad will open under certain consequent phenomenons. Factory shells are designed taking into consideration these factors. Unfortunately, home reloaders don't have the same equipments to calculate that and not every 'home made cut' will perform as expected. It is known for certain wads to overturn with pellets sill in them making it an effective bullet. What i am saying is be careful: manufacturers have got systems to the right cuts, we don't! as a simple rule of thumb I would cut the wad 1-2 mm more than the inside diameter of the tube -so if the inside of a 20g's wad is 0.14cm , the cut should be between 0.15cm and 0.16 cm- but that's me! Curiosity: There are competitions in continental Europe which consist in hitting targets placed at 100+ mt (up to 150 mt) with a shotgun shell. These are no factory loads, so they are home-made and proofed (you need to bring proof along). Using a wad turned upside down is the best method to achieve results at these distances. I would strongly recommend you don't attempt this at home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Fuss and fiddle. Just cut around a cartridge through to the wad, load and shoot. Now that will reach out some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Fuss and fiddle. Just cut around a cartridge through to the wad, load and shoot. Now that will reach out some Indeed, that is quite common where I used to shoot. When after small migratory birds (or song birds) -pellets size 10-13 - and you can hears the dogs barking behind a wild boar heading in your direction, the most sensible thing to do is to cut the shell as you said to make it go as a single bullet... with far more devastating effects on the boar. I've seen many wild boars falling to this type of shell. Nevertheless, even an overturned wad can go 100+ mt (depending on how many pellets are left inside)and cause damages so, care should always be used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Be interesting to proof one of those, bet the pressures are thru the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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