how did great britain survive before the eu

[The Croc]

just been watching/looking at photos of the last century in Europe, all were about wars, wasn't that a reason for the start of the union

I believe NATO was the set up for this, the Common Market, (which we were given a referendum on) was just a trading union, nothing more, hence the name, since then it has morphed beyond this, starting in ted heaths watch, I believe he knew what the game plan was before he held the referendum, but deceived the nation

[islandgun]

I believe NATO was the set up for this, the Common Market, (which we were given a referendum on) was just a trading union, nothing more, hence the name, since then it has morphed beyond this, starting in ted heaths watch, I believe he knew what the game plan was before he held the referendum, but deceived the nation

Agreed the clue is in the name Common Market i remember it quite well, Charles De Gaulle rejected Britain arguing that as an Island Britain wasn't part of the Europe state, many now seem to agree with him

[The Croc]

And Charlie De G was right, unfortunately "our" politicos disagreed. Hidden agenda??

[jimmydean]

Agreed the clue is in the name Common Market i remember it quite well, Charles De Gaulle rejected Britain arguing that as an Island Britain wasn't part of the Europe state, many now seem to agree with him

After being allowed first into Paris after it was retaken, De Gaule typifies the EU for me, bite the hand that feeds, revile those who helped in times of need.

Thankfully the French people are all that we might expect - except for the farmers who we might do well to emulate a bit more.

[Nial]

Nobody can say for sure but....

 

1) We buy a lot more from the EU than they buy from us. They couldn't afford to impose trade restrictions if we left.

 

2) MEXICO has the same trading rights with the EU that we do.

 

I think we'd probably be better out with the same trading terms agreed.

[Psyxologos]

The sad facts over the years are that the EU makes pronouncements (eg farming) chickens, pigs, etc being kept in humane conditions GB toes the line, few others do and we become uncompetitive, as raising standards isnt cheap and unit costs of production rise. Britain loses market share - danish bacon is produced inhumanely buy British.

If there are difficulties they blockade - we just suck it up.

It needs a fairly far-sighted and intelligent politician to see through the EU bureaucracy and unpick the best position - in or out, for Britain but its not a decision to be made on prejudice.

 

Very accurate view of what is going on, I feel. I would add though that, with regards to the specific example you brought (farming), it is the lack of effective control by the European institutions charged with monitoring the sector, and applicable penalties to those who do not follow the rules that is the problem. I am actually quite happy and proud that Britain is one of the nations doing things right in this area. I suspect we are all in agreement that humane conditions for stock animals is a must, so where is the problem? Sort the situation in places where the laws are not observed, and everyone is on par...

[Psyxologos]

We (the politicians) scream for democracy - they send our lads to war over democracy in all parts of the world

 

I would beg to differ on this point. Recent experience shows that contracts in the energy, construction and weapon manufacturing sectors might have had something to do with it...

[FarmerSim]

Better out than in

 

I could not agree more. They have virtually trashed farming, and continue to create more paperwork than anyone rational person could conceive as meaningful.

 

Get out now, before its too late - if it isn't already.

[Grandalf]

 

I would beg to differ on this point. Recent experience shows that contracts in the energy, construction and weapon manufacturing sectors might have had something to do with it...

 

Well let us say the 'Stated Reason' for going to war was to establish democracy in countries that probably didn't want it in the first place. Democracy can never work in a country that is mostly illiterate and corruption is the accepted normal way of life.

 

I could not agree more. They have virtually trashed farming, and continue to create more paperwork than anyone rational person could conceive as meaningful.

 

Get out now, before its too late - if it isn't already.

It will never be to late - It will just have cost more the longer it goes on.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Grandalf

[deershooter]

Are we realy part of the eu ? if so why are tobacco and alchol more expensive here and why are they limits its not a free trade, why are cartridges €140 per 1000 in France and £160 per 1000 here it's only done to suit the fat cats

 

Deershooter

[islandgun]

Are we realy part of the eu ? if so why are tobacco and alchol more expensive here and why are they limits its not a free trade, why are cartridges €140 per 1000 in France and £160 per 1000 here it's only done to suit the fat cats

 

Deershooter

I'm guessing tax

[AVB]

Are we realy part of the eu ? if so why are tobacco and alchol more expensive here and why are they limits its not a free trade, why are cartridges €140 per 1000 in France and £160 per 1000 here it's only done to suit the fat cats

Deershooter

There aren't limits between EU countries. The only restriction is that it must be for personal consumption. The 'duty free' limits that you are thinking of are between countries not in th EU.

[100milesaway]

I voted originally not to join and actually didn't know a single person that voted to join.I could never understand joining a group of countries that were totally unable to support and feed themselves.We should get out now and go back to trading with our traditional founder commonwealth countries. It wasn't broke and it didn't need fixing.Bigger is never better.. We might even then be able and allowed to support British farmers.. from Auntie.

[subsonicnat]

if you are French and have 3 cows, you call yourself a Farmer and get a very good subsidy for it.

Better I might add than the UK farmers get, its all in the interest of other countries to keep us in, we pay millions in and get fed peanuts back.

If you lived in greece and everybody sat on their backsides watching the punters bring the money to them , because they had the sun.

So they gave everyone a JOB that was related to Goverment contracts, when things got really bad on borrowing, people had to be sacked in droves.

The days of sitting outside the cafe`s watching the money roll in has gone for a while, all countries are up to their necks in trouble.

If you take india as an example 250 million for the poor, Rubbish, They spend that money on rockets, funny eh..

thats where it is all going wrong, too many people see us a POT to drain from.

The whole world looks on us as MUGs. I Think We Are.

[grrclark]

India has 300 million middle class aspirational people, we have 30 million in the UK. The reason that we give money to India is because we want to keep goodwill relations with India, not just because of our past of abuse, but because it is a massive market that Britain can have significant influence in developing and subsequently benefitting from.

 

Overseas aid may well be dressed up as trying to help the impoverished and some times it is, but mainly it buys favour in commerce or political allegiance. You might not like it, you might even find it abhorrent, but it is how the world works. The world does not exist on some idealist notion of fairness or equity, it revolves around commerce and power, you might not like that either, but such is life.

[islandgun]

interesting stuff grr, simply put aid is a bribe, dont suppose you have any figures for the returns for bribes,

[kdubya]

interesting stuff grr, simply put aid is a bribe, dont suppose you have any figures for the returns for bribes,

we get the sole rights to produce sharwoods curry powder without which the English would starve.

 

KW

Edited April 4, 2015 by kdubya

[FalconFN]

India has 300 million middle class aspirational people, we have 30 million in the UK. The reason that we give money to India is because we want to keep goodwill relations with India, not just because of our past of abuse, but because it is a massive market that Britain can have significant influence in developing and subsequently benefitting from.

 

Overseas aid may well be dressed up as trying to help the impoverished and some times it is, but mainly it buys favour in commerce or political allegiance. You might not like it, you might even find it abhorrent, but it is how the world works. The world does not exist on some idealist notion of fairness or equity, it revolves around commerce and power, you might not like that either, but such is life.

Yup, it's called realpolitik. It's not pretty but it's how the world works.

[grrclark]

interesting stuff grr, simply put aid is a bribe, dont suppose you have any figures for the returns for bribes,

 

Aid is indeed a bribe in many cases and sadly I don't know what the value is to the UK. Where we do invest though there is typically something we want.

 

As an example of this behaviour China as we know is the largest producer of electronic equipment globally and a lot of semi conductors and other electronic components rely on natural minerals. Brazil happens to have the worlds largest reserves of these minerals and the largest single foreign aid donor to Brazil is China, so they secure that resource.

 

That is why the UK is trying to lead the world in things like graphene research, it is a synthetic material that doesn't rely on markets that are already tied up.

[islandgun]

Aid is indeed a bribe in many cases and sadly I don't know what the value is to the UK. Where we do invest though there is typically something we want.

 

As an example of this behaviour China as we know is the largest producer of electronic equipment globally and a lot of semi conductors and other electronic components rely on natural minerals. Brazil happens to have the worlds largest reserves of these minerals and the largest single foreign aid donor to Brazil is China, so they secure that resource.

 

That is why the UK is trying to lead the world in things like graphene research, it is a synthetic material that doesn't rely on markets that are already tied up.

Thanks grr suppose its better than the old method of taking what we want by declaring war

[grrclark]

Thanks grr suppose its better than the old method of taking what we want by declaring war

I was going to write that originally, what used to be achieved through force is now largely achieved through commerce, it's the only reason Europe has been largely stable for 70 years.

[islandgun]

I was going to write that originally, what used to be achieved through force is now largely achieved through commerce, it's the only reason Europe has been largely stable for 70 years.

that and the common market

[grrclark]

that and the common market

the same thing I reckon. It is mental when you think about it, just how much instability existed and still within living memory.

[BRYAN3]

Foriegn Aid = pension plan for Bliar and soon Cameron.

[keg]

The CAP was written for the french farmers....