islandgun Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't shoot a grey seal although we have plenty here, however I am interested in a colony in N Norfolk at Blakeny, the first recorded grey was in 1988 and this year they expect 850 pups to be born, assuming an equal number of male and female adults. plus 850 pups this year this gives a population of 2550, The quantity of fish spp that grey seal eat is up to 5kg per day assuming less (if my maths is correct) then over a tonne of fish per day or 350 tonnes a year, thats a lot of Dabs ! and this number is increasing year on year Edited April 8, 2015 by islandgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 When there ain't a Salmon or Seatrout left running our rivers then perhaps people will realise predator management is as neccesary as pest control! Or shall we all but out and follow the protectionist mantra and let nature take its course?......if we do, all that will be left will be predators and pest species! Why then bother (there will be no obvious need/benefit to mankind) to preserve and protect our fisheries, moors, and marshes etc for wildlife any more? nature will take care of it?................lets just abandon it to nature! Without mans intervention, our rivers and countryside will ultimately suffer and as a result turn into a sterile wilderness! Where our current diversity and richness in flora and fauna will be severely degraded by natures survivors.......yep.....predators and pests! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Slightly different Stevo , the pigeon is eating a crop paid for by the farmer on land paid for by the farmer , he has paid money for the equipment putting it in the ground and again to take it out of it and the wages of those that use it along with the various fertilizers and sprays that are needed Being a experienced pigeon shooter you will have seen the absolut devestation a flock of pigeon can do to a crop, not sure if seals are such a problem to fish stocks , but trawlers are harvesting a comodity they have not paid for other than the overheads of buying and running a boat and gear. Yes slightly different where salmon farming etc is carried out , but as I whole I do not think seals have the impact on fish stocks that pigeons do on crops . I am not against the culling of seals if they are a huge problem by those they are causing issues for , but I am against someone just having a pop at one " because they can " Its not just trawlers, infact they're probably the minority compared to a much larger smaller boat fleet operating much closer to the shore. With static nets you get problem seals that learn to live off the nets, they get lazy so rather than taking an entire fish they just take a bite then move to the next in the net ruining the catch in the process, these seals then teach their ofspring to do the same. Because of this the fishermen down this way try to target the problem seals rather than general culling. But as the seal population increases year on year the problem is getting greater year on year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 I think it requires a special license in Scotland to shoot seals, although not entirely certain about that. There are quite a few who do, but always connected with protecting fishing areas or around fish farms. I believe that the annual increase in grey seals in Scotland is around 7% growth each year so it has the potential to become a very real problem indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 U do need a licence in Scotland to shoot seals, really surprised u don't in Eng too, althou i'm sure someone has said u do earlier in this thread which would seem normal. So really a non storyand poor research by reporter if that is the case,nothin new there then! seals can cuase massive damage to fish stocks, even wild fish stocks esp if unusual weather, ie long dry spell when majority of fish returning to spawn, all th fish trapped in river mouth area is just a feeding frenzy for seals and could decimate 1 seasons breeding stock. Know on my local river a couple of seals made there way 3ish miles up stream to a salmon leap/weir where all the fish were trapped below it, easy pickings for them. Panama is spot on abpve, it is all very well leaving nature to take its course but by the time the so caled 'conservationists' wake up there will be nothing worth conserving and even the predators will be dying of starvation as nothing left to eat. And that does happen, 1st study at Langholm moor being the prime studied example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 There were a few shooters over here not too long ago who caught the attention of the law for shooting seals with full bore rifles. They were on land with permission, but didn't have permission to shoot seals, or allow their bullets to go beyond the boundary of the land. Legal or not, you will still have to prove that you have exhausted every other method of deterrence, before resorting to shooting as a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) In the case of N Norfolk I wonder how this large populations of seals can be sustained, I suppose there will be casualties and new colonies founded, I also wonder that, if they eat all the sandeels will seabird populations suffer resulting in NE asking for a cull Edited April 8, 2015 by islandgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 seals dont eat sand eel so if they're taking the fish that eat the sand eel there will be more sand eel for the birds to eat resulting in more birds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 U do need a licence in Scotland to shoot seals, really surprised u don't in Eng too, althou i'm sure someone has said u do earlier in this thread which would seem normal. So really a non storyand poor research by reporter if that is the case,nothin new there then! I can confirm, as I said earlier, that you do need a special license in England. As you say, another non story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy.plinker Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Seals can only be shot under license,anyone that thinks otherwise should invite the press and Bobbys out and shoot a seal in the head and see what happens to them. They are very destructive to lobster/crab pots and salmon/ seatrout ,also they damage salmon cages but some say salmon farms harm wild salmon/seatrout too.Personally there should be a thinning out of seals,I know too many people that make a living from the sea say there's too many doing damage and these people are sensible and level headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 indeed, our local guys all have licenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Years ago they used to shoot the seals on Blakeney Point to keep the numbers managable. This was when there used to be a small number of commercial fishing boats (that fished for round fish and flats) working out of Blakeney pit. These have now all but disappeared. Some crab and lobster boats are still there but mostly they work offshore. These days the remaining boatmen make a better living out of taking Joe public out on seal watching trips. They now like large numbers of seals for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 http://www.smru.st-andrews.ac.uk/documents/SealDiet.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 To some degree I stand corrected, however I'd bet the the sand eels that seals go for a the much larger Lance type, I cant see a seal bothering with small sand eels but a few cm long that the birds go for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) The pasty...the only licence you may need as far as I am aware is the condition on your FAC.The netsmans defence provides the means for fishermen to control seals in the vicinity of fishing gear.Also to answer anothers comment earlier...in tonnage terms,it is estimated that the consumption of white fish nearly equals the UK quota...as the seals increase so will their consumption.Another point to consider with seals is although weight per seal is often quoted in consumption terms,they do not eat the whole fish, especially true of larger fish such as cod, salmon, bass etc, preferring to just take the odd bite out so the actual tonnage of fish destroyed is in excess of that consumed.http://britishseafishing.co.uk/seals-and-sea-fishing/ Edited April 8, 2015 by Sprackles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 A nice days catch completely ruined for a fisherman...note the wasteage..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Without mans intervention, our rivers and countryside will ultimately suffer and as a result turn into a sterile wilderness! Where our current diversity and richness in flora and fauna will be severely degraded by natures survivors.......yep.....predators and pests! Its mans intervention with just about everything that has caused it to be an issue in the first place!! Nature ticked along nicely before humans (in their arrogance) decided that it all belonged to them. Funnily enough I studied seal diet out in Ireland a few years ago, and the one overbearing result was that their diet which should have been mostly oily fish such as herring was reduced to poorer species such as haddock, pollack, saithe and sand eels due to overfishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Its mans intervention with just about everything that has caused it to be an issue in the first place!! Nature ticked along nicely before humans (in their arrogance) decided that it all belonged to them. Funnily enough I studied seal diet out in Ireland a few years ago, and the one overbearing result was that their diet which should have been mostly oily fish such as herring was reduced to poorer species such as haddock, pollack, saithe and sand eels due to overfishing. I'm sure it did (tick along nicely) in the dim and distant past before the human population burgeoned and with it the need to produce food using human ingenuity and by intensively managing and using the worlds natural resourses became necessary! Mistakes in the management of natural resources have and continue to be made by man for a variety of reasons but without mans intervention where would humanity be now? Would it still exist? Without it would the few humans the unmanaged land could sustain still populating this biblical garden of Eden still be running around naked eating nuts and berries and living in mud huts? If as you claim the world and all its resources does not belong to mankind then who does it/they belong to? As for the seals diet, they don't hang around river estuaries and venture into fresh and brackish water for any other purpose than to feed! they are opportunists that turn up and predate the wild Salmon and Seatrout runs as they occurr, the more seals the less fish we will have in our rivers, the migratory fish stocks in our rivers are in real trouble, seals could well eat them into extinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) I'm sure it did (tick along nicely) in the dim and distant past before the human population burgeoned and with it the need to produce food using human ingenuity and by intensively managing and using the worlds natural resourses became necessary! Mistakes in the management of natural resources have and continue to be made by man for a variety of reasons but without mans intervention where would humanity be now? Would it still exist? Without it would the few humans the unmanaged land could sustain still populating this biblical garden of Eden still be running around naked eating nuts and berries and living in mud huts? If as you claim the world and all its resources does not belong to mankind then who does it/they belong to? As for the seals diet, they don't hang around river estuaries and venture into fresh and brackish water for any other purpose than to feed! they are opportunists that turn up and predate the wild Salmon and Seatrout runs as they occurr, the more seals the less fish we will have in our rivers, the migratory fish stocks in our rivers are in real trouble, seals could well eat them into extinction. Wow, you are one of the arrogant ones then The world and its resources belong to everything that lives on it, not just one species. And yup, the seals are going to eat up all the fishes cos they are mean and greedy, not because humans have over-fished stocks to the stage where they can't even support the animal populations they did in the first place, never mind our incessant wants. Any time there is conflict between animals and humans, I will absolutely guarantee it is human behaviour that has caused it!! Edited April 9, 2015 by 955i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 I like a philosophical discussion 955i in my eyes, man is an animal and is doing the same as all other species i.e. to spread their genes and fill any niche as it becomes available we have been very good (or bad) at it, we will destroy our own habitat and other spp that depend on it eventually, sad but that is nature and we are part of it. I am interested in your view of the colony of Atlantic grey seals in N Norfolk as pointed out earlier, do you think (as me ) they are displaced animals that have found a a suitable area with plenty of food and also will it last, or perhaps the off spring will move south, I remember large colonies of common/harbour seals off the Essex coast and wonder if the greys will compete, is this a classic example of nature taking its course (much like humans ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 When there ain't a Salmon or Seatrout left running our rivers then perhaps people will realise predator management is as neccesary as pest control! If that happens it will be over fishing that has caused it not seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 I like a philosophical discussion 955i in my eyes, man is an animal and is doing the same as all other species i.e. to spread their genes and fill any niche as it becomes available we have been very good (or bad) at it, we will destroy our own habitat and other spp that depend on it eventually, sad but that is nature and we are part of it. I am interested in your view of the colony of Atlantic grey seals in N Norfolk as pointed out earlier, do you think (as me ) they are displaced animals that have found a a suitable area with plenty of food and also will it last, or perhaps the off spring will move south, I remember large colonies of common/harbour seals off the Essex coast and wonder if the greys will compete, is this a classic example of nature taking its course (much like humans ) Unfortunately there are very few species as adaptable as man and so we either eradicate or cause conflict with other species as we 'progress'. The Norfolk seals may be displaced, probably by lack of fish in the areas they were in previously, and possibly by the fact that people visiting colonies and striving to find 'unspoilt' beaches around the UK coast has disturbed them from areas people didn't used to go to. Competition between greys and harbours will be inevitable, but the problem of overcrowding will probably just lead to another outbreak of Phocine distemper. During my study in Ireland, harbours and greys shared one of the sites, but the other was only greys. The fact remains that the only thing causing competition between these species is lack of fish, and that is a direct result of human activity whichever way it is dressed up. Personally I would like to see at least a 5 year ban on commercial fishing in UK waters to allow fish stocks to recuperate, but I will put my tin hat on stating that on here!! People need to realise that their demand for instant gratification and (misplaced) sense of dominion over everything that crawls, walks and flies is going to have devastating consequences in the not too distant future, most are just too pig-headed or ill-informed to try and do anything to prevent it before it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 And these "devastating consequences" that "most are just too pig headed or ill informed to try and do anything to prevent" are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 And these "devastating consequences" that "most are just too pig headed or ill informed to try and do anything to prevent" are? Complete collapse of fish stocks for one. Extinction of ever larger numbers of species. Less healthy foods pumped with ever more chemicals and genetic modifications causing more and more health issues and deficiencies. But as long as you can have cod with your chips this weekend I guess everything is OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 thats no income for me and my family over the next 5 yrs and the death knell for the island then I prefer nursery areas and breeding programmes although the fish I use are line,creel,caught and hand dived. We also have a large population of seals. It will be interesting to see what happens in East Anglia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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