srspower Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Vince is speaking from first hand knowledge, not from someone who knows someone. I just love these generalisations. Not many drug dealers will stand up in court and say - "I did or didn't give out freebies". Some of the views on here are reasoned, with some facts to support what they say. I see merit in what some say - even though I might not agree. Sadly, many are just child-like in their innocent view of the world. Seriously scary. A stint as a local magistrate makes you an expert on nothing, no different to a stint as a member of a jury. In terms of 'handing out freebies' I said they don't 'tend' to do that as in after decades of prosecutions not once did my mum ever have a case where that was part of the evidence ie: witness testimony. Sure maybe it has happened in the past but the norm? No! If it does then it is extremely unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 22000 deaths annualy from alcohol related illnesses and 0 from cannabis, it is illegal to grow cannabis hemp in the uk without a government licence and in a court of law medical use for nessecity is not acceptable as a defence. However if you have friends in the right places you open a company here in the uk called GW pharmacutical and grow thousands of cannabis plants(skunk) in secret locations here in the UK with the governments blessing(and most probaly a few million in taxpayer funded subsidies), you then extract two chemicals from the plant and mix them in equal quantities with a little alcohol and some mint flavour and glycol and name your product Sativex which you can get 22 patents on so far globally for anything from muscle ****ity in MS patients to "cancer pain " in america and sell it for £150 a bottle (estimates to make this at home are about £10 a bottle) . so for you and I this is illegal and has no medical use whatsoever but for the governments friends it appears to be a massivley profitable enterprise on a global scale purely for medical use , feel free to google "Sativex" if you wish to view the hipocracy for yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) srspower - I don't wish to get involved in a prolonged debate about a side issue, but your comment about Vince Green's "stint as a local magistrate" is well wide of the mark. A stint as a local magistrate makes you an expert on nothing, no different to a stint as a member of a jury. That shows your lack of knowledge. Your mother was involved in decades of prosecutions - presumably as a barrister - but not a single one involved freebies. Forgive my cynicism, but it can't have been many. Perhaps you could enlighten us about just how many of her cases involved drug dealing and how many were guilty verdicts. I assume - correctly I trust - that she didn't discuss cases where there was a "not guilty" verdict. Edited June 2, 2015 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 For some expert views on the banning of legal highs http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/heres-what-drug-and-legal-experts-actually-think-of-the-blan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 For some expert views on the banning of legal highs http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/heres-what-drug-and-legal-experts-actually-think-of-the-blan Good reading on that link. Like I said banning legal highs is a pointless exercise,like trying to ban knives, people will just improvise. We seriously dont want to see meth labs being set up do we? The only reason it hasnt happened in the UK on any scale is because the recreational drug market has enough cheap **** already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenduri Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Good reading on that link. Like I said banning legal highs is a pointless exercise,like trying to ban knives, people will just improvise. We seriously dont want to see meth labs being set up do we? The only reason it hasnt happened in the UK on any scale is because the recreational drug market has enough cheap **** already. Pretty true and legal highs in all honesty are filling that cheap gap as they are vastly cheaper than the illegal variant. People will always use and you can try and control it but in all honesty its pretty futile, but giving up on the fight and legalizing everything isn't the answer either. Sadly its a fight we have to fight and can't step away from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 22000 deaths annualy from alcohol related illnesses and 0 from cannabis, it is illegal to grow cannabis hemp in the uk without a government licence and in a court of law medical use for nessecity is not acceptable as a defence. However if you have friends in the right places you open a company here in the uk called GW pharmacutical and grow thousands of cannabis plants(skunk) in secret locations here in the UK with the governments blessing(and most probaly a few million in taxpayer funded subsidies), you then extract two chemicals from the plant and mix them in equal quantities with a little alcohol and some mint flavour and glycol and name your product Sativex which you can get 22 patents on so far globally for anything from muscle ****ity in MS patients to "cancer pain " in america and sell it for £150 a bottle (estimates to make this at home are about £10 a bottle) . so for you and I this is illegal and has no medical use whatsoever but for the governments friends it appears to be a massivley profitable enterprise on a global scale purely for medical use , feel free to google "Sativex" if you wish to view the hipocracy for yourself That's interesting. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Gordon Brown stifled such debate on this issue by sacking the very man he appointed as drugs 'tsar' when the findings of his panel didn't find in favour of government policy. Nuff said. sounds about right, i dont know why they bother with the ban as nobody seems to care if its illegal anyway they still do it regardless Edited June 2, 2015 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Pretty true and legal highs in all honesty are filling that cheap gap as they are vastly cheaper than the illegal variant. Depends which illegal variant you`re talking about. The price per gram for most of the legal highs isn`t that much cheaper, if at all, than the price per gram of skunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think I pretty much can. At the very least I can set out a number of reasons to give a great deal of evidence as to why the crime . . . costs would be outweighed by the revenue. Let`s go for crime first. 1) If it was legal our police forces wouldn`t be wasting money trying to enforce a law that quite simply they can`t enforce with any degree of success. I don`t know how much the police spend on raiding cannabis factories or busting the people who grow a couple of plants for personal use. But that`s somewhat irrelevent anyway. Whatever they spend wouldn`t have to be spent if cannabis was legal. Similarly the costs of prosecuting the individuals involved in this trade would be removed. 2) Cannabis users are generally not the violent type. That`s the province of the drunken idiots. Legalising cannabis would not cost anything by way of an increase in crime related to it`s use. Similarly as cannabis is not physically or even particularly mentally addictive there will be few users who would resort to crime to feed their habit. “What’s happening here is a continuation of prohibition, a policy which has patently been a hugely costly, harmful, and counterproductive failure over the last 40 or 50 years. . . “From a narrow law-enforcement point of view, this is yet another law for police to enforce; it will create a criminal market, and therefore more work for police. And there’s no evidence that it will reduce harm. But this isn’t about reducing harm through following evidence: It’s about futile posturing to appease ill-informed opinions.” Tom Lloyd, former Cambridgeshire chief constable Ok so he`s talking about legal highs where I was talking about marijuana but I rather think the former chief constable and I share a remarkably similar view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypig Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Just for fun, why should someone who smokes a bit of puff be considered any more of a risk than someone who talks about drinking whisky every night?Cannabis induced psychosis or is that a myth too?As for the cannabis derivatives and I think someone mentioned sati ex.... No high with these. Not as popular with those who self prescribe cannabis for their ailments Edited June 2, 2015 by happypig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Danger-Mouse Only you could say that his view was remarkably similar to your own. He is talking about currently legal substances, you are not. I worry about members who can quote the price of illegal drugs throughout the country. Why would anyone need that sort of knowledge, if indeed they possessed it? Is there an index showing the price of cannabis by county? The thread is about legal highs, yet you continue to go on about illegal drugs. Why? Are you actually a shooter or an anti? Straight question. Cannabis induced psychosis or is that a myth too? http://www.poppot.org/2014/10/29/10-marijuana-myths-advocates-want-believe-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Cannabis induced psychosis or is that a myth too? As for the cannabis derivatives and I think someone mentioned sati ex.... No high with these. Not as popular with those who self prescribe cannabis for their ailments Please read back through my last lengthy post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Please read this:- http://www.poppot.or...want-believe-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 "Only you could say that his view was remarkably similar to your own. He is talking about currently legal substances, you are not." Tom Lloyd, former Cambridgeshire chief constable “What’s happening here is a continuation of prohibition Do you see the comparison yet? "I worry about members who can quote the price of illegal drugs throughout the country." You shouldn`t. I dare say there are any number of people on here who have a rough idea of the price of illegal drugs throughout the country. Policemen, magistrates, anyone who has read a newspaper or watched a documentary on the subject. Or perhaps someone who has repeatedly spoken about their personal experience in these matters. "Why would anyone need that sort of knowledge," I don`t need it. I just have it. "if indeed they possessed it?" Are you suggesting I`m lying? Why would I make up random numbers that could easily be disproved by someone who did know what they were talking about? "Is there an index showing the price of cannabis by county?" Not that I`m aware of. "The thread is about legal highs, yet you continue to go on about illegal drugs. Why?" This thread has evolved since the original post, that often happens in a conversation. It`s strange but I don`t see you asking grrclark why his posts have often referred to marijuana, or for that matter anyone else. One would think perhaps that you have something against me . . . "Are you actually a shooter or an anti? Straight question." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Are you actually a shooter or an anti? Straight question. what on earth has this got to do with shooting !!!! Edited June 2, 2015 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 What have illegal drugs got to do with this thread? To quote the drug expert - "it's evolved". Keep up to speed please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 What have illegal drugs got to do with this thread? To quote the drug expert - "it's evolved". Keep up to speed please. still dont understand what your on about anti's / shooters it certainly evolved it seems in to totally unrelated topics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 To quote the drug expert - "it's evolved". Keep up to speed please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Please read this:- http://www.poppot.or...want-believe-2/ Gordon, I did read it and it is obviously politicised with great partiality, however not withstanding that I did reference some of those things mentioned in my wordy post and it would be foolish to deny that there are problems. Their point 2 however is patently misleading and that to me puts a question mark over the rest of it, there are multiple active ingredients within cannabis and not just THC as they imply and focussing on THC singly as the basis of a study is disingenuous. I would discount material from ardent pro cannabis legalisation as mush as I would discount it from those stridently against, as in your link. Over the last few years I have done a lot of reading around the relative merits, and otherwise, of the legalisation of cannabis, it is a subject that interests me. In that research there are clearly factors for and against, but to my mind at least there is a much clearer benefit in taking an alternate approach to cannabis use, which would decriminalise it and provide a licensed and regulated framework for those who may choose to use it for medicinal purposes as well as recreational. I outlined that in my last post so I won't repeat myself. The most important thing for me in a discussion such as this isn't to try and change minds, but to perhaps raise awareness that can take a discussion beyond irrational fear and hyperbole and into something more meaningful. It's all a learning experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGoose75 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I havent read all of this thread and dont think this will add much to those debating the issue. But these legal highs have been in the Newes quite a bit over here with the death of a young Lad last year after taking them. It is now actually illegal to sell them over here as far as I know' however people are still getting them somewhere as I came across an empty packet last week at a remote spot while out with the Dog. http://www.irishpost.co.uk/news/mother-blames-sons-death-legal-highs Edited to say' the mother appeared on the Jeremy Kyle show with the photo of her son to try and warn other young people of the consequences. Edited June 2, 2015 by SuperGoose75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) making them illegal wont stop people doing it, hasnt worked with other drugs so i doubt it will with legal highs. however iv never tried a legal high and they sound horrendous but my guess education would be more useful than criminalizing young teenagers Edited June 2, 2015 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenduri Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Depends which illegal variant you`re talking about. The price per gram for most of the legal highs isn`t that much cheaper, if at all, than the price per gram of skunk. Cocaine £40-50 gram... Synthacaine.... £15 gram Skunk £20 1/8th (3.5grams).... Legal high cannaboid variant... £12 for 3 grams It's late so i wont bother checking for more but you get my drift. Legal highs are cheaper and easier to get and you don't have to deal with any dealers as its delivered courtesy of Royal mail. They are ridiculously cheap and easy to get and I was amazed at how blatant they are at selling them. The site i was told about from the previously messed up work colleague is like any other e-tailor.... but with a shady undertone. I wont post it as an example for obvious reasons. Edited June 3, 2015 by Zenduri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Cocaine £40-50 gram... Synthacaine.... £15 gram Skunk £20 1/8th (3.5grams).... Legal high cannaboid variant... £12 for 3 grams It's late so i wont bother checking for more but you get my drift. Legal highs are cheaper and easier to get and you don't have to deal with any dealers as its delivered courtesy of Royal mail. They are ridiculously cheap and easy to get and I was amazed at how blatant they are at selling them. The site i was told about from the previously messed up work colleague is like any other e-tailor.... but with a shady undertone. I wont post it as an example for obvious reasons. That`s quite interesting. The ones I`ve seen for sale have tended to be around £8+per gram, only slightly cheaper than skunk at £10 per gram. Nottingham must be cheap for weed if you can buy an eighth at that price. Unless the market has changed you wouldn`t get it for that price around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Zenduri - I think you will find that Danger-Mouse never lets facts cloud the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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