deadeye18 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hello all.Took my favourite bolt action mauser.410 out yesterday to see if i could bag something for dinner,loaded the first cartridge which was a lyalvale 2-1/2" 14gramme of 9shot,spots a rabbit,squeezes trigger and didnt get a sharp boom as normal it went with a little crack followed by a sharp fizzing noise then loads of smoke came out around the bolt!!!i waited a minute before opening and taking out the bolt to inspect the barrel etc and all looked ok,no bulges or anything and the cartridge case looked ok but either way it got me worried!anyone have any ideas what could cause this??I had a few shots after with some winchester western super x 2-1/4" #6shot that im guessing are about 30 odd years old and they fired as they should.Any ideas what happened fellas?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Sounds like your cartridge was duff. Have you stored them in dry conditions away from humidity ie not in garage etc also how old was the cartridge, although you can just get a rouge one from time to time. Always very important to check the barrel for any obstructions after an event like that. Any doubt with the gun and I'd have it straight in for a check with a gunsmith however Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Yep check the barrel you may still have a wad in it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hello 12gague,i keep my cartridges in an ammo box under the stairs so theyre deffo not damp or anything.theyre only a month old too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hello fenboy,i took the bolt out in the field and had a look up the barrel and couldnt see anything wrong before i put a few old winchester cartridges through it.gave the gun a full strip down when i got home and there wasnt any bulges or anything anywhere.Its got me baffled ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Just keep an eye on them incase it's a bad batch and make sure you check the barrel before firing more. Sounds like you did the right thing leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a minute before unloading etc. If you gat another one I'd take the whole lot back to the shop Just keep an eye on them incase it's a bad batch and make sure you check the barrel before firing more. Sounds like you did the right thing leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a minute before unloading etc. If you gat another one I'd take the whole lot back to the shop Just keep an eye on them incase it's a bad batch and make sure you check the barrel before firing more. Sounds like you did the right thing leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a minute before unloading etc. If you gat another one I'd take the whole lot back to the shop Just keep an eye on them incase it's a bad batch and make sure you check the barrel before firing more. Sounds like you did the right thing leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a minute before unloading etc. If you gat another one I'd take the whole lot back to the shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Just keep an eye on them incase it's a bad batch and make sure you check the barrel before firing more. Sounds like you did the right thing leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a minute before unloading etc. If you gat another one I'd take the whole lot back to the shopJust keep an eye on them incase it's a bad batch and make sure you check the barrel before firing more. Sounds like you did the right thing leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a minute before unloading etc. If you gat another one I'd take the whole lot back to the shopJust keep an eye on them incase it's a bad batch and make sure you check the barrel before firing more. Sounds like you did the right thing leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a minute before unloading etc. If you gat another one I'd take the whole lot back to the shopJust keep an eye on them incase it's a bad batch and make sure you check the barrel before firing more. Sounds like you did the right thing leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a minute before unloading etc. If you gat another one I'd take the whole lot back to the shopI think ill try them in my no4 enfield next time,its made me paranoid about using them in my favourite G98 because its so old and sentimental to me.If it does happen again ill take them back to the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 9 shot on Rabbits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 It was almost point blank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 if you were out to pop something for the pot and you had winchester 6s on you pray tell why you chose 9 shot do you usually have rat and sparrow pie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 that sounds lovely dougall,not!no i always take a few #9s to try around some storage sheds that does have a few rats round it now and then on my way down to the main bit of land a mile further on where the bunnies usually hang out,we shoot clays there too for a laugh sometimes but anyway i turned the corner and literally 2-3 mtrs face on bugs was sat there and the rest is history,gun ****** and there was so much smoke it looked like it was on fire!checked it for obstruction etc then put a few ancient #6 winchesters through it and it was ok.Intrestingly i looked for signs on the ground where bugs had been sat and there was virtually nothing apart from 1 mark on the soil,didnt look like any shot had struck anything,Im starting to wonder if there was any shot in it!might be worth looking through the box and seeing if any of the carts are unusually light me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 9's in a 14g load will kill small or medium game to 20 yards without a problem. 30 inch pattern through a cyl choke would have 228 pellets at 1.2ftlbs Not much would be able to walk away when hit with that. Most people would happily shoot a rabbit at 40 yards with 32g of 6.5 and half choke which puts 206 pellets at 1.2ftlbs. With regards to cartridge it sounds like a duff primer and powder has burnt very slowly only raising enough pressure to clear wad from breech but not much else, remainder of powder then burns off in atmosphere giving off smoke. Have a look at the external hammer marking on the primer and see if flash hole is clear internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 9's in a 14g load will kill small or medium game to 20 yards without a problem. 30 inch pattern through a cyl choke would have 228 pellets at 1.2ftlbs Not much would be able to walk away when hit with that. Most people would happily shoot a rabbit at 40 yards with 32g of 6.5 and half choke which puts 206 pellets at 1.2ftlbs. With regards to cartridge it sounds like a duff primer and powder has burnt very slowly only raising enough pressure to clear wad from breech but not much else, remainder of powder then burns off in atmosphere giving off smoke. Have a look at the external hammer marking on the primer and see if flash hole is clear internally. primer has a deep strike on it ill have a look at the inside when i get home.cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Nothing wrong with 9s in a 410 at close range often works better than 5/6s with a full choke. If you have an other write to the manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 7shot in my .410 use it on pigeon rabbit hare and pheasants in 14g and 19g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 i had this with a semi auto, took the barrel off and the wad was stuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 for clay rabbits maybe..for real ones 9s aint the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 You had a squib load . Nothing to worry about . If it happens again just make sure that there is no wadding in the barrel before you shoot again . It's not an uncommon fault with cartridges . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Heard of squib loads but never experienced one in 30 odd years.deffo dont want another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 for clay rabbits maybe..for real ones 9s aint the answer. Rabbit not my thing but winged game 9s work really well have a read on fourteen.org etc and try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 for clay rabbits maybe..for real ones 9s aint the answer. 410 doesn't have enough payload to need pellets to have enough energy to kill at 45 or 50 yards, so 6 and larger are a waste of time. If there are sufficient pellets in the pattern, the following gives the range of each pellet where it has the same energy and therefore lethal penetration will occur on pheasant or rabbit sized game. No 6 - 45 yards No 6.5 - 40 yards No 7 - 36 yards No 7.5 - 30 yards No 8 - 24 yards No 9 - 20 yards If you are shooting rabbits at under 20 yards, 9's will drop them every time if you are on target. In 14g load, my preferred pellet size would be 7.5 which gives a 30 yard range with quarter choke or above. I am currently shooting Eley Extra Long (3 inch mag 18g) in 7's which gives me 35 yards with half choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 So how many of us pop into our local before going Rabbit blatting and buy a slab of 9's-no-one in their right mind would even consider it-only way you would do it is if that's all you had left and even then why on earth would you buy a shell with a payload that would restrict your range?? At 20 yards you can use 6's and simply aim a little high so not to obliterate the target. Jesus wept 9's on Rabbits is ***** and everybody knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Like I said I find 7s or 7.5 best in .410 myself 12.5g 14g and the heavy 19g for out there 30/35 yard big rabbits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 9's in a 14g load will kill small or medium game to 20 yards without a problem. 30 inch pattern through a cyl choke would have 228 pellets at 1.2ftlbs Not much would be able to walk away when hit with that. Most people would happily shoot a rabbit at 40 yards with 32g of 6.5 and half choke which puts 206 pellets at 1.2ftlbs. That is truer than you indicate. Because when two dissimilar sized pellets which have the same energy, the smaller of the two is the more lethally effective. The Energy Density (ED) - which is simply derived from the division of the energy by the pellet's cross sectional area - is a far better method of comparison than energy alone. In this case using Imperial measurements, the ED of the No 9 shot is 15.1 compared with 12.1 for the 6.5. It is this fact that finally put paid to the fallacy that when using steel shot instead of lead you should simply, "go up 2 shot sizes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 But they don't have the same energy do they? Speed is largely dictated by the charge at short range and the 6 is carrying more kinetic energy than the 9 surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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