pestcontrol1 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I've checked the weight with a shop bought one ok to the gram but may still strip them all got 40 kilo of diamond shot so far that has just about payed for the barrel powder wads primers are just freebies now wouldn't mind but just bought 20 kilo from clay and game that was 60 pound only 15 pound less than the barrel me thinks a phone call is in order to try to get another one if possible Which black golds are they ? i am nearly out of my F2 powder i will have to try and find some more from somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 They are game 30 number 6 32 number 4 30 number 6.5 clay 28 number 8 28 number 7.5 all plastic wads all diamond shot same powder just different wads got 40 kilo of shot buzzing still got another 300 to strip yet ?May shoot them yet undecided they are ok just smudged printing weight is spot on with a shop bought one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10gaugewannabee Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 are these easily avalible to ordinary humans or do you have to be some super human shot shell sniffer deal finder, i have never heard of these or this at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 are these easily avalible to ordinary humans or do you have to be some super human shot shell sniffer deal finder, i have never heard of these or this at all I thought they were banned due to H&S legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 I thought they were banned due to H&S legislation. they are still coming out of G/B but it seems to be who you know ( and i don"t know him ) But as before only to be STRIPPED and components reused . But it wont be long before they stop again as people are getting drums of said cut off"s which turn out to have full cartridges in and as before they just shoot them then when a gun blows up or damages the barrel they try to get compo and that will be the end of cut off"s again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember there's some legislation that makes it technically illegal to dismantle cartridges although I'm not sure if I've made that one up, anyone able to clarify that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted November 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 You are not dismantling a cartridge it's not a full cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Ah got you, cheer's deer shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 they are still coming out of G/B but it seems to be who you know ( and i don"t know him ) But as before only to be STRIPPED and components reused . But it wont be long before they stop again as people are getting drums of said cut off"s which turn out to have full cartridges in and as before they just shoot them then when a gun blows up or damages the barrel they try to get compo and that will be the end of cut off"s again use your heads people I know what it costs to put carts together if they are chucking them out it must be for a good reason nobody throws money away there must be a problem do not shoot them as they are strip them yes but don't shoot them and clarify the powder before you reuse it you only get one chance good luck and remember it only takes 1 cartridge George end of story I would not like to be gamebore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember there's some legislation that makes it technically illegal to dismantle cartridges although I'm not sure if I've made that one up, anyone able to clarify that? Please try to remember where you got that one from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughshooter Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 use your heads people I know what it costs to put carts together if they are chucking them out it must be for a good reason nobody throws money away there must be a problem do not shoot them as they are strip them yes but don't shoot them and clarify the powder before you reuse it you only get one chance good luck and remember it only takes 1 cartridge George end of story I would not like to be gamebore Plus 1 A lot of powders look identical and cannot be told apart unless you do a density test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Plus 1 A lot of powders look identical and cannot be told apart unless you do a density test +1 Black gold pure gold and probably all there high end game loads use F2 powder some have a coloured fleck but there is some that don"t 32-35 i think and there also use a different powder that looks identical to the F2 range BUT it NOT the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Please try to remember where you got that one from. Seem to remember reading it on here some time ago and didn't clarify it at the time, thought it odd hence why I asked but probably duff info. As I'm sure everyone else on here, I like to stay firmly on the right side of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 All black gold stripped now ok for powder shot primers for another year tried to get more but they have stopped selling them who ever it was that was selling them a friend of a friend of a friend are well good while it lasted was told to many people asking for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember there's some legislation that makes it technically illegal to dismantle cartridges although I'm not sure if I've made that one up, anyone able to clarify that? Technically If disassembling any explosive item whole or part cartridges included then it is consider as manufacturing under the explosive law and requires an HSE licence to do so. Read ER2014 on the HSE website or phone them to check. But a lot of us did in the good old days of plentiful and cheap cut offs ignorant of the law or ignored it for a cheap bang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Technically If disassembling any explosive item whole or part cartridges included then it is consider as manufacturing under the explosive law and requires an HSE licence to do so. Read ER2014 on the HSE website or phone them to check. But a lot of us did in the good old days of plentiful and cheap cut offs ignorant of the law or ignored it for a cheap bang. Out of interest So to be within the regs how would you get the relevant license and Is it a test you take or a paper form you fill out and apply for All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Technically If disassembling any explosive item whole or part cartridges included then it is consider as manufacturing under the explosive law and requires an HSE licence to do so. Read ER2014 on the HSE website or phone them to check. But a lot of us did in the good old days of plentiful and cheap cut offs ignorant of the law or ignored it for a cheap bang. I don't believe that would be considered as manufacturing unless there was a commercial venture involved. Home loaders do not need an explosives licence and they are not considered to be manufacturers unless it is a commercial operation. The vast majority of HSE legislative requirements do not apply to individuals. The purchase and storage of ammunition and component parts is covered under the police issued certificates and licences, not the HSE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Read ER2014 it does not differentiate between commercial and non-commercial use, example it sets down the limits what you and I can store at home/building. It does not say you can ignore that limit if you are a private individual it is all about safety end of. You do not need a licence for smokeless powder provided you keep within the limit defined within ER2014 but you do need a licence for black powder. You would need to apply to the hse for the licence to disassemble explosive items. Re home loading you are allowed to do it because their is an exemption for hand loading within CIP and ER2014 does not classify cartridge making as manufacture under certain circumstances. Read ER2014 know the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The purchase and storage of ammunition and component parts is covered under the police issued certificates and licences, not the HSE. yes and no depends on quantity, low quantity police high quantity hse but both use the ER2014 regulations to enforce the law but the effort or manpower to enforce it is split between police,HSE and in some cases trading standards e.g fireworks Even every day items like the explosives in car air bags are all regulated by ER2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I don't believe that would be considered as manufacturing unless there was a commercial venture involved.. Ok so the man living next door a very active shooter, in the good old days buy's 20 tubs of cut offs (and we could then) and spends the next few months recovering the powder and primers no rules apply he is not commercial and then the worst happens and the house catches fire. Now it burning like a fireworks factory and you lose your house (or worse) also and now his insurance company won't payout because of what he was doing all in the name of a private person and you just buy him a pint and say never mind mate what's a life time of paying for it between friends and only the dog got killed. ER2014 is about keeping us all safe it applies to all and one read it. Stay safe stay legal it is that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Ok so the man living next door a very active shooter, in the good old days buy's 20 tubs of cut offs (and we could then) and spends the next few months recovering the powder and primers no rules apply he is not commercial and then the worst happens and the house catches fire. Now it burning like a fireworks factory and you lose your house (or worse) also and now his insurance company won't payout because of what he was doing all in the name of a private person and you just buy him a pint and say never mind mate what's a life time of paying for it between friends and only the dog got killed. ER2014 is about keeping us all safe it applies to all and one read it. Stay safe stay legal it is that simple. The HSE legislation doesn't apply to him though unless he is above a certain threshold or if he is pursuing commercial gain. It would be exactly the same if he was using a chainsaw to cut down a tree with no risk assessment or attendant PPE, he may fell the tree on your house and kill your dog, but he wouldn't be prosecuted under HSE regulations. Same applies to the cut offs. You may well pursue him through negligence as a civil matter or there may be other criminal avenues that apply, but the HSE would never get involved as they have no remit. A lack of responsibility or following of safe practice does not mean that it is illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The HSE legislation doesn't apply to him though unless he is above a certain threshold or if he is pursuing commercial gain. It would be exactly the same if he was using a chainsaw to cut down a tree with no risk assessment or attendant PPE, he may fell the tree on your house and kill your dog, but he wouldn't be prosecuted under HSE regulations. Same applies to the cut offs. You may well pursue him through negligence as a civil matter or there may be other criminal avenues that apply, but the HSE would never get involved as they have no remit. A lack of responsibility or following of safe practice does not mean that it is illegal. No it is not their is no law restricting ownership of a chainsaw, you do not need a licence to use, make or disassemble a chainsaw you do under certain circumstances need a licence or certificate for using, making or disassembling explosive items or substances regardless of private or commercial use. ER2014 is that law/policy just like the firearms laws to own a gun. Different limits apply to different use, for disassembling that limit is technically zero yes we all may chose to ignore it to a degree and take apart a miss fired cartridge to get the shot etc and put it back together and no one will be the wiser but you do need to respect ER2014 because that is what your FEO enforces to check why not ask him. I agree unless it was a very serous breach of ER2014 not much may happen but the FEO if he found it not to his liking could consider you not a fit and proper person to own guns. I am not trying to stop anybody doing what they want but the question was asked at post #31 about the legislation and that legislation is ER2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Could you post the exact part of ER2014 please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) No it is not their is no law restricting ownership of a chainsaw, you do not need a licence to use, make or disassemble a chainsaw you do under certain circumstances need a licence or certificate for using, making or disassembling explosive items or substances regardless of private or commercial use. ER2014 is that law/policy just like the firearms laws to own a gun. Different limits apply to different use, for disassembling that limit is technically zero yes we all may chose to ignore it to a degree and take apart a miss fired cartridge to get the shot etc and put it back together and no one will be the wiser but you do need to respect ER2014 because that is what your FEO enforces to check why not ask him. I agree unless it was a very serous breach of ER2014 not much may happen but the FEO if he found it not to his liking could consider you not a fit and proper person to own guns. I am not trying to stop anybody doing what they want but the question was asked at post #31 about the legislation and that legislation is ER2014. I guess that we are interpreting things very differently. I am suggesting that the circumstance of someone who is licensed to acquire shotgun ammunition under the terms of their SGC could quite lawfully go about their activities in assembling and disassembling cartridges providing that they are beneath the 2000g threshold as stated in ER2014. The issuance of a license of certificate in that respect falls under the jurisdiction of the police and not the HSE and so far as I could see there were no specific sub clauses that relate to the breaking down of ammunition as constituting manufacture which would then supercede the prior exception. The reference that I made to a chainsaw is that in a commercial environment that the HSE regulations that would apply to the use of such a device does not apply to a private individual. I contest that exactly the same scenario would apply to a home loader/reloader who sits beneath the threshold encompassed in the ER2014 legislation. Of course that is just a layman's opinion and I would like to know what a professional opinion would be in this respect, but I would want to see some sort of established precedent in their interpretation. I appreciate that sounds a bit arrogant, but the law and application of law is hugely subjective and very rarely absolute or binary. I would be as equally happy to admit that I am completely wrong and be grateful of the learning opportunity. Edit to change 2000Kg to 2000g, just a teeny bit of a difference Edited November 20, 2015 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Totally agree the legislation is heavy going and I could also as a layman be wrong needs an expert in ER2014 which is the legislation in force now hence reply re post #31 My understanding comes from the good old days when lots of cut offs were available and then mser2005 applied and I was told by a certain components retailer that the manufactures stop selling them because of the regulations re disassembly. Would be good to be wrong and see the return of the cut offs as it certainly made reloading cheap. May be somebody will come along and can provide further information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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