Beagle boy Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Mornings lads, next year I'm on about putting 200-300 birds down, maybe ex layer to keep costs down. The land is mainly all 200 acres of young forestry with joining arable. Id try maybe 2-3 release pens to start with and put 100 birds in each. But what tips and tricks do you guys have for me from building pens to keeping the birds about? Can you also keep partridge in the same pens as pheasant before releasing ? Cheers rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Tin opener and can of worms comes to mind here. Have you tried doing a search first and see what you can gleen from that before you go further ? Loads of advice already given on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle boy Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Hi scully get a fairly ok idea on what to do, been around shoots for a while but always going alone is a different kettle of fish lol Are the ex laying birds any good and do they take long to wise Cheers rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlander Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Hi, I wouldn't bother with exlayers as they seem to dissappear far too easily, weve had some from time to time because they were cheaper but the returns havent been that good. Cheers Outlander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle boy Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 What do you mean disappear mate? Get eaten or just wander of? Cheers rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 A lot will depend on the land. Do u have permission to stand/shoot over the adjoining arable land/fields? Talking a lot of initial start up cost pens hoppers etc, do u have other folk/syndicate to share costs with? 200acres is not very big, althou folk do run shoots on small bits of land. Best to get advice of someone experienced u know and can look at the ground for u Even for 2-300 birds can be a lot of work and realistically only going to shoot 30ish% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixhills 69 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I put a100 ex layers down last season over 100 acres grass hedges and small cops of woods shot 3 never seen another bird plenty of food to hold them but nothing no foxes as we shoot the as on chicken farm they just vanished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlander Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 As Sixhills said for some reason they just dont seem to hold where as poults do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle boy Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ok I'm sure I'll find someone to give me some advice, trying between 2-3 of us really. Got lots of hoppers and getting the feed won't be an issue. I have permission on the feilds adjoining yes would I be better upping the amount to around 500 and buying poults then? Thanks for the advice guys Cheers rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 With all respect Beagle Boy, do a search. This topic (especially the one of ex-layers) has been done to death on here and I simply can't be bothered to go through it all again and then have to defend what I do to all those who will undoubtedly then come on here and tell me I'm wrong. If you get stuck then PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 For poults u'll be looking to budget around £6-7 a bird so even 300 will likely cost u £2k roughly just for birds and feed, if u have to add in rent, pen building etc.. Even if u shoot 100 birds/30% which is not guaranteed, still cost u £20 a bird to shoot and thats not including any expenses time etc, for not an awful lot more u could book a day on an estate and save urself a lot of work hassle and grief Probably best to work it the other way. Wot sort of shooting do u want? How many days, size of bag? Just walked up u and ur mates or mini driven needing beaters and 4-8 guns or walk 1 stand 1, where u'll need 10-16 folk. Most shoots will shoot around 30-40% but u could be lower for 1st year or 2 as u learn the ground Get some advice of someone that can see the ground and don't be afraid to start small and work up, ur always learning but easier to learn with smaller numbers as mistakes are less costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSoanes Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 A good tip, put a couple 10ft x 10ft partridge pens up with 3-4 partridges in each where you want your birds to be when you shoot, these will act as call birds and should help draw aswell as hold birds, not making any promises but it works for us. Also a must, hand feed in dry straw where possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 You will shoot every flying hen when you put ex-layers down, and decimate any wild stock, partridges would be easier to hold I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_o Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 You will shoot every flying hen when you put ex-layers down, and decimate any wild stock, partridges would be easier to hold I would think. Very good point here. Worse for that area in the long run. If go for poults if you have the time to do them properly. As others have said there's some valuable info to be found in the search option. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB7 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 200 poults would be more then enough to start with on 200 acres. Build your pens and get your feeders out. Over the first season see which hedgerows your birds want to escape down, find out where local dog walkers keep trespassing, and see where the birds want to feed, fly to and from. Second season I would look at your drives (if your having a driven shoot), and general habitat from what you've seen and learnt from season 1. Possibility of cover crop on the woodland edge or ground cover in your woods. Season three onwards keep tinkering with it and increase birds numbers if you wish. As others have said it would be handy for someone to look at your land and advise you as there's so many different factors. I put down 200 poults in 3 pens on 300 acres, when I get new cover sorted and replace old pens I would like to increase our birds to 300 and that will be our limit on that land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle boy Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Thanks again for all the help and sorry I didn't do a search I honestly didn't think lol Just between 6 of us all mates just a walked up shoot day, as for bag sizes I'm honestly not that botherd I'd be more than happy with 20 birds for the day and everyone takes home Afew birds to eat and we can alternate shooting between us. I'm not aiming to make a huge huge thing out of this it's just a hobby and I'm not worried about making money from it I think I'm just going to accept I'm gunna put a lot of time and money into it and see how I get on and do it for the love really. I've arrange for an ex keeper mate to come for a wander as I'd rather look into early and build odds and **** as I go along. Again thanks for the advice lads it's all appreciated Cheers tob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg123 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Your original post has no mention of water on your shoot. Is a pond an option? A few duck provide a nice bit of sport and good returns compared with pheasants. Even if you don't release any you can feed a splash and have a bit of flighting to end your day for very little extra cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle boy Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 It's has water yes two small ponds but there about 3 streams that run the full length of the ground. They tend to run all year but all be it slowly in the summer. Is it still worth digging out a new pond? Cheers rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg123 Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 No point going to all the work of digging a new pond till you have tried what you already have. Personally from my limited experience I would suggest you start a bit smaller and work up as you learn your ground & cover. 200 – 300 birds is a fair bit of work and a big investment to start from. You say there is 6 of you looking for a few walked up days. Maybe have a chat amongst yourselves and decide how much you each wish to put in. If you said £300 each that only gives you a full budget of £1800 which doesn’t go far especially if you have to pay rent for the ground. I would suggest you budget roughly around £700 per hundred poults by the time you have bought them and fed them for a season. Starting out at 300 birds first year + finding the money for a pen and all the other equipment is going to cost you a fair amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'm not sure if you mean you have 200 acres of forestry + some acreage of adjoining arable or 200 acres in total. If it's 200 in total then I see no point in having 3 release pens on that small acreage. I would go with 1 decent sized pen, as big as you can make it, as near to the center as possible.This will reduce costs considerably and make looking after and holding them so much easier. By having the pen in the center, when they come out you will have a much better chance of holding them and it will allow you to feed them where you intend to shoot them. Also give a little thought to tilling some form of cover crop on the woodland edges to hold the birds and flush them from on shoot days. Also remember that bare, cold woods don't hold birds. I know that many have great success with ex layers, but equally many do not and find that within a few weeks they have all flown to pastures new. Some land holds ex layers better than another. There is only one way to find out what works for you and that is to give it a try. In a forestry shoot I would not recommend partridges, they need a different type of pen and feed. Stick with pheasants, start small and work from there, growing in size as you learn from experience and past mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 By having the pen in the center, when they come out you will have a much better chance of holding them and it will allow you to feed them where you intend to shoot them. Also give a little thought to tilling some form of cover crop on the woodland edges to hold the birds and flush them from on shoot days. Also remember that bare, cold woods don't hold birds. I know that many have great success with ex layers, but equally many do not and find that within a few weeks they have all flown to pastures new. Some land holds ex layers better than another. There is only one way to find out what works for you and that is to give it a try. In a forestry shoot I would not recommend partridges, they need a different type of pen and feed. Stick with pheasants, start small and work from there, growing in size as you learn from experience and past mistakes. All good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Expect to get lots of promises of help,but be prepared to do it all your self,again I'm filling hoppers on my own,again. Edited December 3, 2015 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge911 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Expect to get lots of promises of help,but be prepared to do it all your self,again I'm filling hoppers on my own,again. exactly right davyo . I left a shoot 4 seasons ago now after been in it for 3-4 seasons . it had 22 members yet it was the same 4 of us that put ALL the work into making it work with prepping the pens before the birds came keeping the shooting points in clean conditions then when the birds did arrive it was down to the same 4 to keep them fed and watered etc .[ not been big headed ] I was the only one who take my shogun through the woods to the pens with food / water etc . and again during the season the same lads fed up the hedge rows and kept the feeders topped up all the other members just wanted to turn up on shoot days and disappear after .............until the next shoot ..............this was brought up at regular intervals to no avail with excuse after excuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Trouble with Ex Layers, is they have all been through the mill, shot at, and will wander far and wide... poults are more trouble, but you get better returns,as for holding them tight,I still use to whistle them in works every time,once they get used to you from an early age. As said a lot more trouble,but if you want to be seen to be doing the very well.Hand Feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Trouble with Ex Layers, is they have all been through the mill, shot at, and will wander far and wide... poults are more trouble, but you get better returns,as for holding them tight,I still use to whistle them in works every time,once they get used to you from an early age. As said a lot more trouble,but if you want to be seen to be doing the very well.Hand Feed. See? This is where it all starts to go wrong. You simply don't know for certain that ex-layers 'WILL wander far and wide', nor that you'll get better returns. As I've stated many times, we haven't found this to be the case at all. They MAY wander, and they may not. You may get better returns and you may not. We were told not to bother with ex-layers as they would all disappear, but we took the chance as we have no time to rear poults. We have a cracking little shoot. We have also been told that if we feed anything other than wheat our birds will disappear. Again, we haven' t found that to be the case. No one knows for sure what will happen. Your birds may all disappear, then again they may not, no one can say for certain. If we had listened to all those people who told us we were doing it wrong we wouldn't have a shoot; as it is, we have a good shoot and are now faced with people telling we are still doing it wrong. All I can say to the OP, is cipher through all the advice and then make up your own mind and do what is within your capabilities, compromising where your options are limited, and take it from there. According to many on here we are doing it all wrong, but that isn't the case at all. Do it YOUR way and do what works for YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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