motty Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 The trouble is, we have no idea how bad the situation is. I reckon a lot of those "sightings" could easily be made up. As for machine-gun fire, the same people could say the same about our local marshes. I am not sure she is to be honest , more like someone who is fed up with whats happening on her doorstep and if some of the allegations are true (which I expect some are ) she has every right to be peeved . She just seems to be someone with an opinion on what the solution is ( stop shooting geese ) and she is entitled to that . At the end of the day who is it providing the ammunition for her , I think some of those shooting there need to take a long hard look at themselves , but in truth I expect they don't really care , unlike a true sportsman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Is this increase in wounded geese as a result of high/out of range shooting? and since the lead shot ban, the present unavailability/unaffordability of effective tungsten based non tox cartridges and the reliance on inadequate CIP restricted steel cartridges? Any who honestly believe they need special non toxic or lead are just trying to make up for thier inadequacies in fieldcraft and marksmanship Lead certainly wounded plenty of Geese before steel was ever around Out of range desperate shooting hoping for a fluke kill or a broken wing when the aim should always be dead in the air High shooting by being in the wrong place at the wrong time only pushes them higher on subsequent occasions - geese ain't dumb as many who chase them I recon Clubs may be the answer but it's not 1950 and many English clubs need reminding of that and I only hope the Scottish guys sort something suitable for today and the new threats faced by the sport getting on for 70 years on from when most English clubs were formed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 The trouble is, we have no idea how bad the situation is. I reckon a lot of those "sightings" could easily be made up. As for machine-gun fire, the same people could say the same about our local marshes. Possibly but most of the complaints of poor practice I hear of regarding shooting on the Scottish bays and surrounding areas come from other fowlers rather than anti's , that says something . Having not shot their personally I could not say if the amount of gunfire matches what we can sometime hear when the geese are here , but clearly with no club to answer there is much more opportunity to act poorly and get away with it , and knowing they can get away with it would be like a green light to some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 clearly with no club to answer there is much more opportunity to act poorly and get away with it , and knowing they can get away with it would be like a green light to some. They are probably too ignorant or stupid to realise they are doing anything wrong/getting away with anything. This sort of thing happens when people travel long distances and are determined to have a shot before going home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberFowl Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) They are probably too ignorant or stupid to realise they are doing anything wrong/getting away with anything. This sort of thing happens when people travel long distances and are determined to have a shot before going home. it's not just guns travelling long distances who are damaging the sport for the true fowler.There's plenty of all the gear no idea locals up around here also. Education is needed, people hear it's free to shoot and just head down with a pocket full of 'super duper magnum' cartridges, with no real knowledge of fowling I have bumped in to numerous new faces on the local estuary, most have been genuine blokes with knowledge and a good attitude. Just a handful of them, usually in small parties have shown lack of knowledge, lack of respect and lack of care for the sport, locals, the quarry. Its something I fear will never change. There will be changes at Findhorn, that is for sure, hopefully the sensible fowler will still be able to shoot there, I wont hold my breath but will stand with other fowlers and try protect our sport wherever possible Edited December 2, 2015 by AberFowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 it's not just guns travelling long distances who are damaging the sport for the true fowler. There's plenty of all the gear no idea locals up around here also. Sounds like the Wash when I was last up there in the late 60s. Gulls, Shelducks and homing pigeons scattered all over Kirton Marsh. A local turned up as we were coming off the marsh, said he was going out after 'Skelduck'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misser Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 i have shot the bay a few times and seen some high shooting, mostly from what is aptly named cowboy corner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 There is always a risk of wounding with any shot at any distance but that increases greatly the further you push things so I would say yes high shooting will be playing a large part . I don't think the shot type makes a difference as those responsible will still try to push things beyond the limit of what they are using , it must be worse in Scotland with no club commitees etc to be held accountable to. Even if they are in a club it's hard to do anything about it ,(ie evidence off actual out of range shooting or bad behaviour). But it's probably worse here because if you were kicked out of a club, you could still go below the high water mark. Been to findhorn bay once and its only an hour away. Wouldn't go back. Some guy set up 20 yards from me to my left. Might as well have sat on my lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) this is on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYGTAKfifVg Edited December 3, 2015 by andrewluke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 this is on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYGTAKfifVg Really bad PR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 it's not just guns travelling long distances who are damaging the sport for the true fowler. There's plenty of all the gear no idea locals up around here also. Education is needed, people hear it's free to shoot and just head down with a pocket full of 'super duper magnum' cartridges, with no real knowledge of fowling I have bumped in to numerous new faces on the local estuary, most have been genuine blokes with knowledge and a good attitude. Just a handful of them, usually in small parties have shown lack of knowledge, lack of respect and lack of care for the sport, locals, the quarry. Its something I fear will never change. There will be changes at Findhorn, that is for sure, hopefully the sensible fowler will still be able to shoot there, I wont hold my breath but will stand with other fowlers and try protect our sport wherever possible I agree there will be changes at Findhorn and I also hope that the wildfowling community will stand together to ensure responsible and sustainable wildfowling can continue there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB1954 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 There have always been cowboys, years ago [70's] I lived in Devon and was a member of the Taw & Torridge Club and there where a few who behaved like the small minority on the Findhorn. Been in Scotland 14 years now but not shot much on foreshore never really got to grips with the set up here. I think this small minority will impact greatly on the existing freedom we have here, politics being what they are in Scotland at the moment. Are the BASC supporting the responsible Findhorn shooters?? I hope, like others, that a sustainable way forward can be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whytie2697 Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I live locally to Findhorn and have shot there with my dad for about 20 years he has shot there for 50 years I would say we are responsible wildfowlers and my dad has never gone to the Findhorn side or cowboy corner for these reasons the people complaining might have some valid points but need to do some research as saying people are shooting towards walkers and using bullets that's rubbish I for one would hate to see a ban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 BASC response to this https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/moray/785997/more-than-800-moray-reidents-call-for-halt-to-goose-shoot-on-nature-reserve/ Bullets ! That just shows ignorance and a lack of understanding from the ban folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Ignorant or not, they're motivated and organised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 How many people have been injured by falling geese in the last 100 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riptide Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Hi all ,,I have shot Montrose a few times as well as around the coast up their . I find the time restrictions and walk on walk of times very alien to fowling as I know it But having said that as its a LNR it does how ever much it grates allow you to shoot on the Basin ! I think to help solve the Findhorn problem that is being forced on us by others it could be run by a local club on a LNR basis were the council does not have to be in control the club or group run it sort out permits and control it so keeping it hands of fowlers ,this would cost the council little or no cash it would immediately bring in a sensible fowling regime so the locals would be more relaxed about it It would be a way out from the them and us situation ,,and yes I see that a few die-hard antis wont agree till all shooting stopped ,but a sensible run council would I am sure except a workerbull solution to the problem .. maybe BASC could be involved in set up but it would always be in hands of local fowlers /club/group .. as it will be by permit local or not the management would know who was on each day so any problems could be followed up .. A bit like say having to shoot inland Ouse Washes were owned by club it works well ,so why not , . the above could solve the problem for the good of most and also keep the control in the fowlers hands .. Any one shooting it would also know that if they did not tow the line that would be their last time on the bay !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washwildfowler Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Nothing in that footage to prove that goose has been shot .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local lad Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Just to update you all. I have lived in the area for 50+ years and shoot the bay every chance I get. The petition has been set up by a bunch of white settlers that have moved into the area and dont like shooters. The online video clip on youtube is now being used by other sad groups to promote a shooting ban. The video of the wounded goose was made and posted by the local church minster who is the main wooden spoon. He is a keen photographer and just wants the bay for his own personnel use so has wound all the rest of the weak minded white settlers up. If you watch the video and leave a comment please ensure it dose not harm our cause, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I believe the ban lot have the support of a MSP no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ELSab5vTN_g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local lad Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 You know MP's they will decide when they have weighed up what side makes them look good and gets them the most votes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 You know MP's they will decide when they have weighed up what side makes them look good and gets them the most votes!! Aye your right - are you a member of the local club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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