BrowningB525 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) They have here, maybe they have no common sense here, what would the police in Northern Ireland know about dealing with terrorists. They are also aware of secondary devices designed to kill people rushing to help. SOP;s state the area should be controlled and contained,brave or foolish you decide,As an ex Sapper i have virtually ground a garrison to a halt by seeing a suspect item under a vehicle and controlling and containing the area around the device,none of my section were daft enough to approach the suspect item,there are robots to do that, or very brave men in large suits. Unarmed police were on the scene in Cumbria they had to back of and let him continue his killing spree until he decided to kill himself. 2 were dead before anyone even knew he was killing anyone,and then it was reported he had an airrifle,another died and 1 more seriously injured before unarmed officers were alerted and started to follow him he then managed to give the police the slip and carried on his spree. Given the remoteness of the area armed officers would be thin on the ground,even police officers were thin on the ground Again no one said they would be able stop all attacks, but they would have more options. Again the French attack happened in a city, one of the biggest in europe with a high concentration of police all armed,this did not stop multiple shooting and grenade attacks and three bombings,what options do you have when someone throws a grenade into a crowded room? or walks into a concert and pulls the trigger on an ak47 with a ROF of 100 rounds a minute? There are a lot of armed police down the road from Whitehaven. Edited December 7, 2015 by BrowningB525 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I do not know if arming the police in total would save many lives.The question also has to be asked does the ordinary policeman want to be armed and have the responsibility that it would bring onto them.I can't say I have heard about the police federation lobbying for this.Do you force officers to carry and those who do not wish to do so you force them out-of the job.I believe that closing our borders as you would in wartime and ejecting those that should not be here or are of dubious background would possibly prevent more innocent people being killed or injured than the police being armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Nuts Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Surprised the anti's haven't shouted to ban all knives! Ban everything, that way nobody will ever get hurt.... I am a strong believer in the police being armed. Not PCSO's or the like but most officers should be trained to carry and if absolutely necessary use that weapon if that is the final resort. I for one would feel safer as a member of the public personally. I also believe there is a case for concealed carry permits but we all know hell will freeze over before anything like that is made legal in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I do not know if arming the police in total would save many lives.The question also has to be asked does the ordinary policeman want to be armed and have the responsibility that it would bring onto them.I can't say I have heard about the police federation lobbying for this.Do you force officers to carry and those who do not wish to do so you force them out-of the job.I believe that closing our borders as you would in wartime and ejecting those that should not be here or are of dubious background would possibly prevent more innocent people being killed or injured than the police being armed. unfortunately Mick, I feel that would be the very last thing our government will ever consider doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I've been on a military range after the police had been on their training and there were so many live rounds that they had left lying about on the ground it was unbelievable. And there was the incident of the handguns left on a vehicle roof that drove off and the guns fell off along the road somewhere. A member of the public handed them in o only to be arrested for being in illegal possession of firearms. When they worked out that they were police firearms it was all hushed up to cover it all up. I don't understand why the police are such a load of cowboys when they get near guns. You'd think that there were a few brain cells in amongst them somewhere out there but I don't see much evidence of it. Nice sweeping generalisation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_seagrave Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 It looks as though the level of armed response was spot on in this instance, the guy was tasered, not shot dead, so, as said earlier, can at least now be interrogated to see if he was a one-off nutter or part of a plan. THIS LS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Wouldnt it be cheaper to have army patrols on the streets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 IMHO. whatever happens on our streets we will have to suck up? We will never see any relaxation of regulation that allows us to defend ourselves effectively because we are not trusted? Successive Government over the last 40 odd years has seen our personal freedoms decimated? Why? in a futile attempt to save us from ourselves because they care? OR maybe have been lobbied behind closed doors by unknown people with private agendas? In any event the Politicos will be hiding with their families behind the concrete barricades? Same as when the lights go out? What a jaded old view I have? Hey Ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 It appears that two tasers were used. BBC now saying he was tasered 3 times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Not every Taser deployment is successful. For it to be effective both probes need to hit, though not necessarily pierce the skin. If one probe misses the Taser won't work, hence a further deployment from either the original officer having carried out an operational reload with another cartridge or a second Taser officer discharging his Taser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Ozzy, I accept that and personally would have like to have seen him tasered a bit more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Lol , you, I and countless other people. Though instead of an x26 maybe the live line on the underground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Lol , you, I and countless other people. Though instead of an x26 maybe the live line on the underground That would have involved carrying the muppet down to the platform and may well have been seen as premeditated by the courts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Nuts Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 In any event the Politicos will be hiding with their families behind the concrete barricades? Same as when the lights go out? Makes me laugh. They all shout about guns being bad yet what do all the bodyguards/private security protect them with? Slingshots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Lol , you, I and countless other people. Though instead of an x26 maybe the live line on the underground They managed to use a taser pretty effectively on that cannibal in Wales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) You still don't get the point, arm all the police and it still does not stop people being killed, fine you have more options later, but by then the dead don't care about your options. You are stating the obvious, no one said arming the police would stop people being killed. Its could end a attack quicker saving some lives. Edited December 7, 2015 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Arming all police officers would create huge problems. A vast number simply would not want to carry, then there are a lot , who quite simply , would not be fit to carry. By that I mean that they would not be able to draw the weapon and take someone's life with it . Cost implications also play a part, although a Glock 17 cost a lot less than a Taser. Ammunition is cheaper for the pistol whilst Taser cartridges run at 25 quid a snap crackle and pop.. Assuming then, we are justifying all this because of the terrorist attacks in Europe. The weapon of choice there being the AK 47. 7.62 short round with full auto and large magazine capacity. Would you fancy your chances up against a couple of terrorists tooled up with Assault weapons, bomb vests with no fear of death when all you have is a 9mm pistol? I don't. Edited December 7, 2015 by ozzy518 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 You are stating the obvious, no one said arming the police would stop people being killed. Its could end a attack quicker saving some lives. Read the voice of reason below ozzy speaks sense,Most terrorists seem to blow themselves up anyway,which brings me back to SOP's.and not rushing in. Arming all police officers would create huge problems. A vast number simply would not want to carry, then there are a lot , who quite simply , would not be fit to carry. By that I mean that they would not be able to draw the weapon and take someone's life with it . Cost implications also play a part, although a Glock 17 cost a lot less than a Taser. Ammunition is cheaper for the pistol whilst Taser cartridges run at 25 quid a snap crackle and pop.. Assuming then, we are justifying all this because of the terrorist attacks in Europe. The weapon of choice there being the AK 47. 7.62 short round with full auto and large magazine capacity. Would you fancy your chances up against a couple of terrorists tooled up with Assault weapons, bomb vests with no fear of death when all you have is a 9mm pistol? I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 So what else do you suggest? If the police force wont do it, or aren't up to it then who is? Maybe they should possibly leave it to the armed forces. At best the police, charged with upholding the law and protecting the general public, will be armed with H&K 9mm sub-machine guns, admittedly not a major calibre in comparison to the 7.62 x whatever, but the rest of us have.....nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 So what else do you suggest? If the police force wont do it, or aren't up to it then who is? Maybe they should possibly leave it to the armed forces. At best the police, charged with upholding the law and protecting the general public, will be armed with H&K 9mm sub-machine guns, admittedly not a major calibre in comparison to the 7.62 x whatever, but the rest of us have.....nothing. But some folk don't like confrontation, they give up for the day before they get out of bed. Problem is, they want to impose that on all of us because "They know best". Now run along and don't argue with your betters :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Arming all police officers would create huge problems. A vast number simply would not want to carry, then there are a lot , who quite simply , would not be fit to carry. By that I mean that they would not be able to draw the weapon and take someone's life with it. Again how do they mannage to arm all officers here on and of duty. As for them not being able take somewones life with it, i doint know of any officer in NI that had a issue shooting back when the bullets were comming their way. Not wanting to carry a firearm it comes with the job if you doint like it doint apply, the same could apply in the rest of the UK. Would you fancy your chances up against a couple of terrorists tooled up with Assault weapons, bomb vests with no fear of death when all you have is a 9mm pistol? I don't. Possibly not, but you would have less of a chance with a batton. Example one guy here was ambushed by terrorists armed with AK/47s he had a 9MM he shot one dead injured one. The 9mm pistol saved his life. Edited December 7, 2015 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 It could apply to the rest of the UK but apart from officers who wanted to join armed response 98% of our ploce force took the job knowing they would not be join an armed force. Do we sack the ones who don't want to carry ? A PC who has done 25 years ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Everyone joining the police in NI knows it's an armed role. The recruit training ensures that the officers are fit to carry. Here in the Uk , yes we could immediately train all new recruits....oh, hang on, we can't recruit for the foreseeable cos we are skint. So that leaves existing officers. A large number will be ex military and others will also be suitable to carry sidearms. What about the rest? Do we treat them as conscientious objectors, sack them as they wont carry a gun? If we are doling out guns to officers, do we give them to special constables too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Everyone joining the police in NI knows it's an armed role. The recruit training ensures that the officers are fit to carry. Here in the Uk , yes we could immediately train all new recruits....oh, hang on, we can't recruit for the foreseeable cos we are skint. So that leaves existing officers. A large number will be ex military and others will also be suitable to carry sidearms. What about the rest? Do we treat them as conscientious objectors, sack them as they wont carry a gun? If we are doling out guns to officers, do we give them to special constables too? Where there's a will there's a way they could start by arming the officers that did not have an issue with carrying a firearm, it could then be phased over time starting with new recurts. As for special constables that would be up to the powers that be. Edited December 7, 2015 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Where their is a will there is a way, they could start by arming the officers that did not have an issue with carrying a firearm, it could then be phased over time starting with new recurts. As for special constables that would be up to the powers that be. You may have a problem with terrorist activity all over Ni, so your police are all armed, but the uk does not have the same problem,and therefore does not require all police officers to be armed,we have had the ira and not had to arm all our police, so why should we now arm them all on the assumption there will be an attack,and god forbid there is an attack there may be 1 or 2 officers close enough to respond immediately do you think that warrants the arming of all officers. Our system of policing works,and should we have an attack it will be re assessed. Edited December 7, 2015 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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