EU In or out

[Psyxologos]

 

That's what King's John and Charles thought...

Bit of history reading might be in order...

 

 

You may be right in these instances, but they were the exception, not the norm. Not just in this country, all over the world. Anyway. My point is that 'hereditary' or 'divine' rule is far from democratic.

[secretagentmole]

 

 

You may be right in these instances, but they were the exception, not the norm. Not just in this country, all over the world. Anyway. My point is that 'hereditary' or 'divine' rule is far from democratic.

So why should we tolerate "divine rule" from Brussels then?

[markfromholland]

 

 

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Maybe a little injection of facts will help you. Here...

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

The link you posted refers to what happend in Cologne on december 31, 2015, i was refering to the rape of a female

worker in a Belgium refugee camp last friday. The 19 yr old woman was raped by a 16 yr old afgan young man.

 

As i live in holland, pretty close to germany, i follow the news closely.

The 3 state operated tv channels, like ard, wdr and so on, were told to post only positive news about

refugees. The people in charge claimed they have to follow the political direction of the government.

 

 

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[Danger-Mouse]

 

 

 

3. There is no democracy in Monarchy. There is a king/queen and subjects. Subjects do as the king/queen pleases.

 

 

 

 

You may be right in these instances, but they were the exception, not the norm. Not just in this country, all over the world. Anyway. My point is that 'hereditary' or 'divine' rule is far from democratic.

 

I`m not really sure why we`ve drifted onto discussing monarchies but fwiw.

 

If you`re talking about an absolute monarchy then you`re correct. However we have a constitutional monarchy and it`s a democratic system. Ever since Magna Carta in 1215 there has been a limit of the monarchy`s power as basic rights of the individual are protected under English law. Those rights were further protected once the Bill of Rights was passed in 1689 that gave us regular elections, freedom of speech in Parliament and limited the power of the monarch. It`s the reason our legal system is envied by the rest of the world and why so many systems are based on ours. In Europe absolute monarchies continued on for far longer than they did here.

 

Democracy itself varies widely and it`s difficult, if not impossible, to define what a democracy is. Most democratic systems share similarities but they are far from identical. The Greeks invented the system but in truth only a relatively small number of citizens out of the total population could actually vote. By modern standards where universal suffrage is the norm the Greek system is highly undemocratic.

[Rewulf]

 

 

You may be right in these instances, but they were the exception, not the norm. Not just in this country, all over the world. Anyway. My point is that 'hereditary' or 'divine' rule is far from democratic.

 

I suppose the Pope is actually Catholic too...

[ElvisThePelvis]

The Euro has a much wider capital base than the UK, and if you look at the charts it appears an element of Brexit is priced in, it may dip, but it sure as hell won't collapse. The Pound however very well may, it will certainly be damaged making imports expensive amongst other downside.

 

This may be a helpful illustration ..http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35628733

[old'un]

This may be a helpful illustration ..http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35628733

Well that's ok it will make it cheaper for other countries to buy from us and bring more tourism to the UK.

[Bad Monkey]

Well that's ok it will make it cheaper for other countries to buy from us and bring more tourism to the UK.

 

Exactly. Every cloud has a silver lining.

[ElvisThePelvis]

Well that's ok it will make it cheaper for other countries to buy from us and bring more tourism to the UK.

Although most day to day uk household costs are imports of one degree or another... Interest rate could run amok and BoE powerless as an interest rate rise will be impossible for many over geared households...

 

One thing is for sure, if we exit, and I'm not sure in the long term it's a bad thing, there will be a few years of holding into your hats...

[matone]

Sometimes you have to take a chance,now is that time !

[markfromholland]

We in Holland were promised golden mountains !

Oh, Greece becoming member would be a great benefit to all EU

members..........

 

We have more families going to the voedselbank ( free food supply ) than

ever.

 

More and more people not being able to pay health insurance, one of our biggest warehouses V&D

closed their doors last week etc etc.

 

Our EU membership was shoved in our thoats, by our political leaders, we did not

have a chance to choose in or out

[Vince Green]

You should be careful what you wish for, I'm an OUT voter but I don't think many people have even thought about what the EU could do to us by way of reprisals. Hell hath no fury and all that sort of thing.

 

Do you honestly think they are going to say OK see you around sometime?

[McSpredder]

Does anybody have a list of those financial "experts" who a few years ago were predicting economic disaster if we failed to adopt the Euro, and kept the pound instead?

 

Would any of them be the same people or organisations who now say it would be a disaster if we left the EU?

[old'un]

Although most day to day uk household costs are imports of one degree or another... Interest rate could run amok and BoE powerless as an interest rate rise will be impossible for many over geared households...

 

One thing is for sure, if we exit, and I'm not sure in the long term it's a bad thing, there will be a few years of holding into your hats...

Tell me about it, I remember when the mortgage rates hovered around 15% for years and savers were getting returns of 8% and more, my mortgage payment was £380 a month and I was earning about £800 a month, now I've retired I get peanuts on my savings, typical.

[hambone]

My gut feeling is out and wouldnt be supprised if an UK exit would bring the house of cards tumbling down. Merkel is on thin ice and only terror attacks in France have bolstered Hollonde. This is why the begrudged concessions have been made to the UK as they don't want us to leave

Edited February 22, 2016 by hambone

[secretagentmole]

You should be careful what you wish for, I'm an OUT voter but I don't think many people have even thought about what the EU could do to us by way of reprisals. Hell hath no fury and all that sort of thing.

 

Do you honestly think they are going to say OK see you around sometime?

What are they going to do that is going to hurt us so bad? We import far more from Europe than we export there, so they start slapping import taxes on and we do the same thing. There is nothing in Europe we cannot source elsewhere. Besides companies like BMW, VW, Citroen, Peugeot, FIAT will be very keen not to lose a multi billion Euro market, don't forget one of the reasons we joined the EEC was to bolster our car industry, damned good idea that wasn't! All it meant was that far superior and cheaper cars could be imported in larger quantities and they promptly were!

Add to that the food imports, alcohol imports, clothes and you begin to see Europe has more to lose than we do! They can still get money out of us, they just have to sell us something to get it. They will get used to the idea that we want to be able to say no. When we are out the money saved can be given to our farmers in the form of subsidies such as they currently are given, we can re establish our borders with some of the funds saved and pay for a good few Customs boats as well!

 

They can have all that they want, the fun and freedom to allow people to flood in, we can sit and watch the fireworks when it goes wrong!

[UKPoacher]

Yes, the £10 billion a year subscription the UK currently pays will have to come from France and Germany. France is skint and Germany have suddenly acquired a lot of government costs by inviting half the third world to live there. So there will be a shortfall entailing smaller countries won't get the same subsidies and Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece and Cyprus will go down the toilet. The whole smoke and mirror palace will come tumbling down. Still, there will be plenty of rental apartments in Brussels to house the immigrants in.

Edited February 22, 2016 by UKPoacher

[old'un]

You should be careful what you wish for, I'm an OUT voter but I don't think many people have even thought about what the EU could do to us by way of reprisals. Hell hath no fury and all that sort of thing.

 

Do you honestly think they are going to say OK see you around sometime?

Never mind we could always go back to the good old days...come on what is the worst that can happen to us, if it gets really bad and we are starving we could always become refugees and head to France or Germany!

 

 

[ElvisThePelvis]

My gut feeling is out and wouldnt be supprised if an UK exit would bring the house of cards tumbling down. Merkel is on thin ice and only terror attacks in France have bolstered Hollonde. This is why the begrudged concessions have been made to the UK as they don't want us to leave

This could well be the outcome, the problem could be that EU demise is faster than an exit, a bit like trying to outrun an avalanche..

[shaun4860]

We in Holland were promised golden mountains !

Oh, Greece becoming member would be a great benefit to all EU

members..........

 

We have more families going to the voedselbank ( free food supply ) than

ever.

 

More and more people not being able to pay health insurance, one of our biggest warehouses V&D

closed their doors last week etc etc.

 

Our EU membership was shoved in our thoats, by our political leaders, we did not

have a chance to choose in or out

We never get to hear of these things,

 

Who is keeping these things from us?

 

[ElvisThePelvis]

Tell me about it, I remember when the mortgage rates hovered around 15% for years and savers were getting returns of 8% and more, my mortgage payment was £380 a month and I was earning about £800 a month, now I've retired I get peanuts on my savings, typical.

Yes, you and many others, if interest rates are allowed to balloon ( I really can't see that they can) and if too many people have shifted to much of their equities portfolio into buy to let with the pension reform, there could well be a triple whammy!

[old'un]

Yes, you and many others, if interest rates are allowed to balloon ( I really can't see that they can) and if too many people have shifted to much of their equities portfolio into buy to let with the pension reform, there could well be a triple whammy!

Ok I buy a house to rent with my pension pot for £150k now because we are out of the EU interests move upwards, house values fall, my new investment is now worth £125k but I am still getting my rent and I still have the investment. Like they always tell you, the value of your shares/investment can go down and you might not get back what you invested, investments are generally long term 5 to 10 years.

 

Don't think it will be as bad as you think.

[poontang]

 

1. Every day is a school day. For all of us...

 

2. This is something a lot of people are not comfortable about. Including myself. The same goes with the unelected 'lords' (aka old slave owners, party donors etc). But if one has a headache one does not cut their head off.

 

3. There is no democracy in Monarchy. There is a king/queen and subjects. Subjects do as the king/queen pleases.

 

Whoa, hang on a minute.

 

A little bit of digging reveals the author, Samuel Lowe, is a campaigner for Friends of the Earth and an ardent fan of the EU. Of course it's in his interest to scaremonger that we would automatically sign up to TTIP if outside the EU.

US trade representative Michael Froman has however declared that not to be the case at all in a Guardian interview (28th Oct 2015).

Now, who am I inclined to believe? A green activist and EU fanboy, or a senior US trade negotiator?

 

I'm going with the yank on this one.

 

Not sure why you keep banging on about our system of government and monarchy, it seems a bit of a recurring theme with you.

[ElvisThePelvis]

Ok I buy a house to rent with my pension pot for £150k now because we are out of the EU interests move upwards, house values fall, my new investment is now worth £125k but I am still getting my rent and I still have the investment. Like they always tell you, the value of your shares/investment can go down and you might not get back what you invested, investments are generally long term 5 to 10 years.

Don't think it will be as bad as you think.

That's if you buy it outright, which today with interest rates where they are is a terrible use of capital...

[Psyxologos]

 

Not sure why you keep banging on about our system of government and monarchy, it seems a bit of a recurring theme with you.

 

Because I find it ironic, to say the least, when you complain about 'unelected bureaucrats' in Brussels but you are happy to be a subject to an old German lady and suffer in silence 'lords' who are also unelected and most of them have a very murky past.