EU In or out

[djrwood]

I think the young lady on question time put forward a compelling argument. She disregards (as do I) the governments claim to being trying to remove the pull factors for migrants coming over and argues that increasing the minimum wage to a living wage will only encourage them to come over. The existing minimum wage is some eastern block countries is already 1/10th the amount of ours so it is hardly surprising why the trip is made.

 

We still need to increase the minimum wage imo, as that's the right thing for the workers of our country, but for this to be effective we need out the EU. We need a points based system like Australia and bring in the people we need within our economy to support our NHS etc, without letting every tom **** and harry in also.

 

I don't think we will ever get any proper answers to the economic debate as everyone will skew the argument to suit their position, so for me this is going to be a vote from the heart. And to be honest no one knows what will happen if we come out. The tories argue 2m uk jobs depend on the EU, yet 5m EU jobs depend on the UK so i cant believe these ties will be completely lost. Apparently we wont be given access to the services market if we come out, which our economy depends upon but who knows? I find it amazing the arguments coming out about kettle costs and cost of data when travelling, as if these really matter and will sway your vote. The fishing industry could prosper if we take control of our borders and regulations, yet then we may not have anyone to sell it to?! Yet I believe farmers could be worst off due to EU grants etc. As the grants given to the country are less than the amount we pay to be in the EU, one would assume the UK government can set up and pay the same amounts and still be better off?

 

For me its not all about immigration, although this is the main driver for the referendum. For me it is about our government having proper unprecedented control over our control, so that our elected officials do as we ask (obviously within reason and assuming you voted for the majority party etc). We are the 5th biggest global economy and those European companies will continue to need us as we do them so im sure there will be light at the end of the tunnel

 

We survived and prospered long before the EU and I think we will do again if we come out of it.

[scotslad]

It's a shame that it was so unashamedly partisan and, due to the title, a needlessly aggressive bit of UKIP negativity.

 

Censoring an argument so that it edits out any opinion at odds with your own makes it propaganda and not debate.

 

And before anyone suggests the BBC does the same, it doesn't.

 

The BBC ws caught doing just that during the scottish referendum and edited clips of salmond from andrw marr show? and peiced them together in the news. He even got a proper apology over it.

 

I see this going the exact same as referendum debate, becoming more of a shouting match and very few 'real' facts on either side just scare and counter scare stories.

 

Potentially the biggest vote most of us will make in our lifes yet few facts and even the 'facts' that are out there ur constantly questioning who paid for the alleged 'independent' study.

Wot ever ur views u do have to listen to the other side to get some context.

 

Before the scottish vote sir tom hunter, invested a fair heap of money in paying experts to give a 100% independent study of the pro's and cons with no emotial or bias from any side. Showed both sides up for the lairs they are

Really need something similar so many can actually read the likely outcomes and sort out the fact from fiction

[Danger-Mouse]

It's a shame that it was so unashamedly partisan and, due to the title, a needlessly aggressive bit of UKIP negativity.

 

Censoring an argument so that it edits out any opinion at odds with your own makes it propaganda and not debate.

 

And before anyone suggests the BBC does the same, it doesn't.

 

Yes it`s very partisan. However finding information about this issue from a non-partisan source is very difficult. As for the title, well yes it`s unnecessary, but that`s youtube for you.

 

And yes it would have been good to see the entire debate. Nonetheless I think the professor makes plenty of interesting and valid points.

 

The professor is a confirmed eurosceptic but he`s also a very intelligent and knowledgable chap. Have a look at his Wiki page for some of his previous policy opinions/decisions and you`ll see that he`s generally on the money.

[UKPoacher]

Whether he is correct or not isn't the issue as it is all conjecture on both sides and each has to have their assertions scrutinised and cross examined, the problem was that the edited video only showed one side of the argument from a professor well known for his opinion, and the other professor, from the LSE, presumably there as a counter balance, was not heard talking or being cross examined.

 

Personally I found his rhetoric a little worrying, particularly as he appeared to advocate letting the car industry, and others, decline in a purely global market driven economy - no country on Earth does that, and if we did we wouldn't produce anything at all. And I'm not sure where he gets the population figure of 30 million from - but beside those points, his views are important but so are those of the other professor.

 

The 30 million represents workforce, not population.

 

As for point about letting the car industry die, I saw that as an example of a bigger issue. If a country protects its workers, car, steel or coal for example by putting tariffs on imports what the Prof' appeared to be saying is that this does not help the industry thrive. It becomes a basket case reliant on charity. Also, the difference between the world market price and the enhanced price is born by customers, people like you and me. Also, to balance it, he claimed that the EU was guilty of protectionism to a large degree and if the UK came out of the EU the UK would pay less for some EU sourced goods.

 

He is after all, an economist. Not a politician. The latter are the ones who impose trade barriers and tariffs to protect their votes.

[chris1961]

The European is a corrupt organization so much that they flatly refused to have their books audited for the last 20 or so years billions of pounds simply disappear without a trace no accountability whatsoever those who vote in must be mad

Edited March 2, 2016 by chris1961

[secretagentmole]

 

The 30 million represents workforce, not population.

 

As for point about letting the car industry die, I saw that as an example of a bigger issue. If a country protects its workers, car (1), steel (2) or coal for example by putting tariffs on imports what the Prof' appeared to be saying is that this does not help the industry thrive. It becomes a basket case reliant on charity. Also, the difference between the world market price and the enhanced price is born by customers, people like you and me. Also, to balance it, he claimed that the EU was guilty of protectionism to a large degree and if the UK came out of the EU the UK would pay less for some EU sourced goods.

 

He is after all, an economist. Not a politician. The latter are the ones who impose trade barriers and tariffs to protect their votes.

1) The French are still giving hand outs to it's car makers and Germany is doing the same thing (Citroen and Opel).

2) The Germans are subsidising the cost of power for their steel industry,

 

So why can't we? Oh we follow the rules that's right. Seems nobody else is...

[mick miller]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/02/dutch-also-want-a-eu-membership-referendum-poll-shows/

[grrclark]

He is after all, an economist. Not a politician. The latter are the ones who impose trade barriers and tariffs to protect their votes.

The danger with economists and economics in general is that is not really a science, it is more philosophical than anything else and pretty much entirely theoretical.

 

Put 100 economists in a room and ask them to recommend a common approach and you will get 100 variations and all of them as equally wrong as they are right.

 

Although this sounds terribly arrogant, and it is, don't place too much faith in the strongly held opinion of a single academic, especially an economist.

 

There are favoured schools of thought and two of the strongest are Hayekian which basically suggests you should let the market find its own level with no interference, i.e. no protectionism or Keynesian which is much more in favour of government stimulus, i.e. protectionism. Hayekian is favoured by the right and Keynesian by the left.

 

The EU, Labour led UK & Democrat led US has typically followed the Keynesian approach and the Conservative led UK and Republican led US governments favour the Hayekian approach, albeit watered down.

 

The big problem is both schools of thoughts have to work within the same global environment, so if the world commerce market largely follows Hayek then the views of the professor in the video are fine and dandy, but if the world commerce market largely favours Keynes then the professor's strategy is very much out of step.

 

Just now the predominant global view is very much one of protectionism and it will be for quite some time as there is still way too much fragility and imbalance in the system.

 

Massively simplified of course and absolutely fails to take into account the many other economic theories so apologies to any economists I am offending

[hawkfanz]

ok guys if them words on cabbage are fiction have a look at this for regulation.

31987R1591

Commission Regulation (EEC) No 1591/87 of 5 June 1987 laying down quality standards for cabbages, Brussels sprouts, ribbed celery, spinach and plums

Official Journal L 146 , 06/06/1987 P. 0036 - 0052
Finnish special edition: Chapter 3 Volume 23 P. 0161
Swedish special edition: Chapter 3 Volume 23 P. 0161
Special edition in Czech Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237
Special edition in Estonian Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237
Special edition in Hungarian Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237
Special edition in Lithuanian Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237
Special edition in Latvian Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237
Special edition in Maltese Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237
Special edition in Polish Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237
Special edition in Slovakian Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237
Special edition in Slovenian Chapter 3 Volume 07 P. 221 - 237

 

Commission Regulation (EEC) No 1591/87

of 5 June 1987

laying down quality standards for cabbages, Brussels sprouts, ribbed celery, spinach and plums

THE COMMISSION OF THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES,

Having regard to the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community,

Having regard to Council Regulation (EEC) No 1035/72 of 18 May 1972 on the common organization of the market in fruit and vegetables [1], as last amended by Regulation (EEC) No 1351/86 [2], and in particular Article 2 (3) thereof,

Whereas the quality standards for cabbages, Brussels sprouts and ribbed celery are laid down in Council Regulation No 41/66/EEC [3] and whereas a further Class "III" for Brussels sprouts is defined in Regulation (EEC) No 75/74 [4];

Whereas the quality standards for spinach are laid down in Annex I/1 to Commission Regulation No 58 [5], as last amended by Regulation (EEC) No 899/87 [6];

Whereas the quality standards for plums are laid down in Annex II/8 to Council Regulation No 23 [7], as last amended by Regulation (EEC) No 1129/86 [8];

Whereas changes have taken place in the production and marketing of these products, in particular as regards retail and wholesale market requirements; whereas the common quality standards should therefore be changed to take account of the new requirements;

Whereas the standards are applicable at all stages of marketing; whereas transportation over a long distance, storage for a certain length of time or the various handling operations may bring about deterioration of these perishable products; whereas, therefore, account should be taken of such deterioration when applying the standards at the marketing stages following dispatch; whereas, since products in the "Extra" class have to be particularly carefully sorted and packaged, only lack of freshness or turgescence is to be taken into account in their case;

Whereas in the interest of clarity and certainty as to legal requirements and for ease of use the standards thus changed should, on the occasion of a further amendment, be redrafted in a single text;

Whereas the measures provided for in this Regulation are in accordance with the opinion of the Management Committee for Fruit and Vegetables,

HAS ADOPTED THIS REGULATION:

Article 1

The quality standards for:

- cabbages, falling within subheading 07.01 B II and ex 07.01 B III,

- Brussels sprouts, falling within subheading ex 07.01 B III,

- ribbed celery, falling within subheading ex 07.01 T,

- spinach, falling within subheading 07.01 C,

- plums, falling within subheading 08.07 D

of the Common Customs Tariff are set out in Annexes I, II, III, IV and V hereto.

These standards shall apply at all marketing stages, under the conditions laid down in Regulation (EEC) No 1035/72.

However, at the stages following dispatch the products may show, in relation to the standards prescribed,

- a slight lack of freshness and turgescence,

- for the products graded in the class other than the "Extra" class, slight alterations due to their development and their perishable nature.

Article 2

Regulation No 41/66/EEC and Regulation (EEC) No 75/74 are hereby repealed.

Article 3

Regulation No 58 is hereby amended as follows:

- in Article 1 "07.01 C" and "Spinach" are deleted;

- Annex I/1 is deleted.

Article 4

Regulation No 23 is hereby amended as follows:

- in Article 2 (3) the words "and to plums" are deleted;

- Annex II/8 is deleted.

Article 5

This Regulation shall enter into force on the day following its publication in the Official Journal of the European Communities.

This Regulation shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States.

Done at Brussels, 5 June 1987.

For the Commission

Frans Andriessen

Vice-President

[1] OJ No L 118, 20. 5. 1972, p. 1.

[2] OJ No L 119, 8. 5. 1986, p. 46.

[3] OJ No 69, 19. 4. 1966, p. 1013/66.

[4] OJ No L 9, 11. 1. 1974, p. 35.

[5] OJ No 56, 7. 7. 1962, p. 1607/62.

[6] OJ No L 88, 31. 3. 1987, p. 17.

[7] OJ No 30, 20. 4. 1962, p. 965/62.

[8] OJ No L 103, 29. 4. 1986, p. 22.

--------------------------------------------------

ANNEX I

QUALITY STANDARD FOR HEADED CABBAGES

I. DEFINITION OF PRODUCE

This standard applies to headed cabbages grown from varieties (cultivars) of Brassica oleracea L. var. capitata L. (including red cabbages and pointed cabbages) and from Brassica oleracea L. var. bullata DC. and var. sabauda L. (savoy cabbages), supplied fresh to the consumer, cabbages for industrial processing being excluded.

II. PROVISIONS CONCERNING QUALITY

The purpose of the standard is to define the quality requirements for headed cabbages after preparation and packaging.

A. Minimum requirements:

In all classes, subject to the special provisions for each class and the tolerances allowed, the headed cabbages should be:

- intact,

- fresh in appearance,

- not burst, showing no signs of flower development,

- sound, produce affected by rotting or deterioration such as to make it unfit for consumption is excluded,

- free of bruises and injury,

- free from insects and/or other parasites,

- free of damage due to frost,

- clean, practically free of any visible foreign matter,

- free of abnormal external moisture,

- free of any foreign smell and/or taste.

The stem should be cut slightly below the lowest point of leaf growth; the leaves should remain firmly attached, and the cut should be clean.

The condition of the headed cabbages must be such as to enable them:

- to withstand transport and handling, and

- to arrive in satisfactory condition at the place of destination.

B. Classification:

Headed cabbages are classified into two classes defined below:

(i) Class I:

Headed cabbages graded into this class should be of good quality and possess all the characteristics typical of the variety. They should be compact, having regard to the species.

Headed cabbages, according to the variety, must have firmly attached leaves. Store headed cabbages may have some of their outer leaves removed. Green Savoy headed cabbages and early headed cabbages, taking into account their variety, must be properly trimmed, but in doing so a number of leaves may be left for protection.

Green headed cabbages may be slightly frosted.

The following are admitted:

- small cracks in the outer leaves,

- slight bruising and light trimming of the outer leaves, provided that it does not affect the good condition of the produce.

(ii) Class II:

This class includes headed cabbages which do not qualify for inclusion in Class I, but meet the minimum requirements specified above. They may differ from headed cabbages in Class I in the following ways:

- they may have cracks in the outer leaves,

- more of their outer leaves may be removed,

- they may have larger bruises and the outer leaves may be more extensively trimmed,

- they may be less compact.

III. PROVISIONS CONCERNING SIZING

Sizing is determined by the net weight. This must not be less than 350 grams per unit.

Sizing is compulsory for headed cabbages presented in packages. In that case, the weight of the heaviest head in any one package must not be more than double the weight of the lightest head. When the weight of the heaviest head is equal to or less than 2 kilograms the difference between the heaviest and the lightest head may be up to 1 kilogram.

IV. PROVISIONS CONCERNING TOLERANCES

Tolerances in respect of quality and size are allowed in each package or in each lot in the case of headed cabbages transported in bulk for produce not satisfying the requirements for the class indicated.

A. Quality tolerances:

(i) Class I:

10 % by number or weight of headed cabbages not satisfying the requirements for the class, but meeting the requirements for Class II or, exceptionally, coming within the tolerances for that class.

(ii) Class II:

10 % by number or weight of headed cabbages not satisfying the requirements of the class, or the minimum requirements, but excluding headed cabbages visibly affected by rotting or any other deterioration rendering them unfit for consumption.

B. Size tolerances:

For all classes: 10 % by number or weight of headed cabbages not meeting the specified requirements as regards:

- uniformity,

- minimum size.

However, no head may weigh less than 300 grams.

V. PROVISIONS CONCERNING PRESENTATION

A. Uniformity

The contents of each package or lot, if transported in bulk, must contain only headed cabbages of the same origin, variety and quality.

The headed cabbages classed in Class I must be uniform in shape and colour.

The visible part of the contents of the package or lot must be representative of the entire contents.

B. Packaging

The headed cabbages must be packed in such a way as to ensure that they are suitably protected. The may be delivered packed or in bulk.

The materials used inside the package must be clean and of a quality such as to avoid causing any external or internal damage to the produce. The use of materials and particularly of paper or stamps bearing trade specifications is allowed provided that the printing or labelling has been done with a non-toxic ink or glue.

Packages, or lots if the produce is transported in bulk, must be free of all foreign matter.

VI. PROVISIONS CONCERNING MARKING

1. For headed cabbages presented in packages, each package must bear the following particulars in letters grouped on the same side, legibly and indelibly marked and visible from the outside:

A. Identification

Packer | Name and address of officially issued or accepted code mark. |

and/or |

Despatcher |

B. Nature of produce

- "White headed cabbages", etc., if the contents are not visible from the outside,

C. Origin of produce

- Country of origin and, optionally, district where grown, or national, regional or local place name.

D. Commercial specifications

- Class,

- Weight or number of units.

E. Official control mark (optional)

2. For headed cabbages transported in bulk (loaded directly into a vehicle or vehicle compartment), the above particulars must appear on a document accompanying the goods or on a notice placed in a visible position inside the vehicle.

--------------------------------------------------

ANNEX II

QUALITY STANDARD FOR BRUSSELS SPROUTS

I. DEFINITION OF PRODUCE

This standard applies to Brussels sprouts, being the axillary buds growing along the vertical stem of varieties (cultivars) of Brassica oleracea L. var. bullata subazr. gemmifera DC., supplied fresh to the consumer, Brussels sprouts for industrial processing being excluded.

II. PROVISIONS CONCERNING QUALITY

The purpose of this standard is to define the quality requirements for Brussels sprouts after preparation and packaging.

A. Minimum requirements

In all classes, subject to the special provisions for each class and the tolerances allowed, Brussels sprouts must be:

- intact,

- sound, produce affected by rotting or deterioration such as to make it unit for consumption is excluded,

- fresh in appearance,

- clean, practically free of any visible foreign matter,

- not frozen,

- free of insects and/or other parasites,

- free of abnormal external moisture,

- free of foreign smell and/or taste.

The stalk of trimmed Brussels sprouts must be cut just beneath the outer leaves; the stalk of untrimmed Brussels sprouts must be fractured at the base; the cut or fracture must be clean, without other parts of the plant adhering.

The conditions of the Brussels sprouts must be such as to allow them:

- to withstand transport and handling, and

- to arrive in satisfactory condition at the place of the destination.

B. Classification

Brussels sprouts are classified into three classes defined below:

(i) Class I

Brussels sprouts in this class must be of good quality. They must be:

- firm,

- closed,

- free of damage by frost.

Trimmed Brussels sprouts must be well coloured. For untrimmed Brussels sprouts, slightly discoloured basal leaves are allowed. Slight damage to the outer leaves, caused by picking, grading or packing is also allowed, provided that it does not affect the good condition of the produce.

(ii) Class II

This class includes Brussels sprouts which do not qualify for inclusion in Class I, but satisfy the minimum requirements specified above.

However, produce in this class may be:

- less firm,

- less closed but not opened,

- moreover they may show slight damage due to frost.

(iii) Class III [1]

This class includes Brussels sprouts which do not qualify for inclusion in the higher classes but satisfy the requirements for Class II.

However, they may show:

- colouring defects, slight bruising and traces of damage due to parasites or diseases,

- traces of soil,

- damage due to frost.

III. PROVISIONS CONCERNING SIZE

Sizing is determined by the maximum diameter of the equatorial section.

The minimum diameter is:

- 10 mm for trimmed Brussels sprouts graded in Classes I and II and for Brussels sprouts, trimmed or untrimmed, graded in Class III,

- 15 mm for untrimmed Brussels sprouts graded in Classes I and II.

For Brussels sprouts in Class I, the difference between the largest and the smallest sprout in any one package must not exceed 20 mm.

IV. PROVISIONS CONCERNING TOLERANCES

Tolerances in respect of quality and size are allowed in each package for produce not satisfying the requirements of the class indicated.

A. Quantity tolerances

(i) Class I

10 % by weight of Brussels sprout not satisfying the requirements of the class but meeting the requirements for Class II, or exceptionally, coming within the tolerances for that class.

(ii) Class II

10 % by weight of Brussels sprouts satisfying neither the requirements for the class nor the minimum requirements, but excluding produce attacked by rot or any other deterioration rendering it unfit for consumption.

(iii) Class III

15 % by weight of Brussels sprouts satisfying neither the requirements for the class nor the minimum requirements, but excluding produce attacked by rot or any other deterioration rendering it unfit for consumption.

B. Size tolerances

For all classes: 10 % by weight of Brussels sprouts not conforming to the size of requirements.

V. PROVISIONS CONCERNING PRESENTATION

A. Uniformity

The contents of each package must be uniform and comprise only Brussels sprouts of the same origin, variety, quality and size (where required).

The visible part of the contents of each package must be representative of the entire contents.

B. Packaging

The Brussels sprouts must be packed in such a way as to protect them properly.

The materials used inside the package must be new, clean and of a quality such as to avoid causing any external or internal damage to the produce. The use of materials and particularly of paper or stamps bearing trade specifications is allowed provided that the printing or labelling has been done with a non-toxic ink or glue.

The packages must be free of any foreign matter.

VI. PROVISIONS CONCERNING MARKING

Each package must bear the following particulars in letters grouped on the same side, legibly and indelibly marked and visible from the outside:

A. Identification

Packer | Name and address of officially issued or accepted code mark |

and/or |

dispatcher |

B. Nature of produce

"Trimmed Brussels sprouts" or "untrimmed Brussels sprouts", if the contents are not visible from the outside.

C. Origin of produce

Country of origin and, optionally, district where grown, or national regional or local place name.

D. Commercial specifications

Class; when sized, size expressed in minimum and maximum diameter.

E. Official control mark (optional)

[1] Additional class as provided for in Article 2 (1) of Regulation (EEC) No 1035/72. The application of this quality class or some of its requirements shall be subject to a decision to be taken under Article 4 (1) of the same Regulation.

--------------------------------------------------

ANNEX III

QUALITY STANDARD FOR RIBBED CELERY

I. DEFINITION OF PRODUCE

This standard applies to ribbed celery of varieties (cultivars) grown from Apium graveolens L. var. dulce Mill., to be supplied fresh to the consumer, ribbed celery for industrial processing being excluded.

II. PROVISIONS CONCERNING QUALITY

The purpose of this standard is to define the quality requirements for ribbed celery, after preparation and packaging.

A. Minimum requirements

In all classes, subject to the special provisions for each class and the tolerances allowed, the ribbed celery must be:

- whole, trimming of the upper part being permitted,

- fresh in appearance,

- sound, produce affected by rotting or deterioration such as to make it unfit for consumption is excluded,

- free from damage caused by frost,

- free from cavities, suckers and flowers stems,

- clean, practically free of any visible foreign matter,

- practically free from damage caused by pests,

- practically free from pests,

- free of excessive external moisture, that is to say, adequately dried, if washed,

- free of any foreign smell and/or taste.

The main root must be well cleaned and must not exceed 5 cm in length.

Ribbed celery must be normally developed, having regard to the production period. Its condition must be such as to allow it:

- to withstand transport and handling, and

- to arrive in satisfactory condition at the place of destination.

B. Classification

Ribbed celery is classified into two classes, defined below:

(i) Class I

Ribbed celery in this class must be of good quality, regular in shape and free of traces of disease on either the leaves or the leaf stalks.

The leaf stalks must not be broken, stringy, crushed or split.

In the case of blanched ribbed celery, the leaf stalks must be white to yellowish-white or greenish-white in colour for at least half their length.

(ii) Class II

This class includes ribbed celery which do not qualify for inclusion in Class I, but satisfy the minimum requirements specified above.

Ribbed celery in this class may show slight traces of rust. It may also show a slight deformation or slight bruises and have not more than two leaf stalks that are broken, crushed or split.

In the case of blanched ribbed celery, the leaf stalks must be white to yellowish-white or greenish-white in colour for at least one-third of their length.

III. PROVISIONS CONCERNING SIZING

Sizing is determined in relation to net weight. The minimum weight of ribbed celery is 150 grams.

Ribbed celery is graded into three groups:

(i) large: over 800 grams

(ii) medium: 500 to 800 grams

(iii) small: 150 to 500 grams

The difference in size in the same package may not exceed 200, 150 and 100 grams respectively.

This grading and uniformity requirement is compulsory for Class I only.

IV. PROVISIONS CONCERNING TOLERANCE

Tolerances in respect of quality and size are allowed in each package for produce not satisfying the requirements of the class indicated.

A. Quality tolerances

(i) Class I

10 % by number of ribbed celery not satisfying the requirements of the class but meeting the requirements for Class II, or exceptionally, coming within the tolerances for that class.

(ii) Class II

10 % by number of ribbed celery satisfying neither the requirements for the class nor the minimum requirements, excluding produce attacked by rot or any other deterioration rendering it unfit for consumption.

B. Size tolerances

For all classes: 10 % by number of ribbed celery not conforming to the size requirements.

V. PROVISIONS CONCERNING PRESENTATION

A. Uniformity

The contents of each package must be uniform and comprise only ribbed celery of the same origin, quality and colour, and size (where required).

The visible part of the contents of each package must be representative of the entire contents.

B. Presentation

The ribbed celery may be presented:

- either bundled in the package,

- or stacked in the package.

When presented in bundles, all bundles in the same package must contain the same number of pieces.

C. Packaging

The ribbed celery must be packed in such a way as to protect it properly.

The materials used inside the package must be new, clean and of a quality such as to avoid causing any external or internal damage to the produce. The use of materials and particularly of paper or stamps bearing trade specifications is allowed provided that the printing or labelling has been done with a non-toxic ink or glue.

The packages must be free of any foreign matter.

VI. PROVISIONS CONCERNING MARKING

Each package must bear the following particulars in letters grouped on the same side, legibly and indelibly marked and visible from the outside:

A. Identification

Packer | Name and address of officially issued or accepted code mark |

and/or |

Dispatcher |

B. Nature of produce

"Ribbed celery" followed by the indication "blanched celery" or an indication of the colour-type, if the contents are not visible from the outside.

C. Origin of produce

Country of origin and, optionally, district where grown or national, regional or local place name.

D. Commercial specifications

Class;

When sized, size expressed by "large", "medium" or "small";

Number of pieces or, where appropriate, number of bundles.

E. Official control mark (optional)

--------------------------------------------------

ANNEX IV

QUALITY STANDARD FOR SPINACH

I. DEFINITION OF PRODUCE

This standard applies to spinach of varieties (cultivars) grown from Spinacia oleracea L. to be supplied fresh to the consumer, spinach for industrial processing being excluded.

II. PROVISIONS CONCERNING QUALITY

The purpose of this standard is to define the quality requirements for spinach in leaf or in heads after preparation and packaging.

A. Minimum requirements

In all classes, subject to the special provisions for each class and the tolerances allowed, the spinach must be:

- sound, produce affected by rotting or deterioration such as to make it unfit for consumption is excluded,

- fresh in appearance,

- clean, practically free of visible foreign matter,

- practically free from pests,

- free of floral stems,

- free of any foreign smell and/or taste.

Washed spinach must be adequately drained.

In the case of spinach heads, the portion comprising the root must be cut close to the base of the outer leaves.

The spinach must be sufficiently developed and in such condition as to enable it:

- to withstand transport and handling, and

- to arrive in satisfactory condition at the place of destination.

B. Classification

Spinach is classified into two classes, defined below:

(i) Class I

Spinach in this class may be in leaf or in heads and must be of good quality.

The leaves must be:

- normal in colour and appearance for the variety and time of harvest,

- free from damage caused by frost, animal parasites or diseases impairing appearance or edibility.

In the case of leaf spinach, the leaf stem must not exceed 10 cm in length.

(ii) Class II

This class includes leaf spinach or spinach heads which do not qualify for inclusion in Class I, but satisfy the minimum requirements specified above.

III. PROVISIONS CONCERNING SIZING

Sizing is not compulsory for spinach.

IV. PROVISIONS CONCERNING TOLERANCE

Tolerances in respect of quality shall be allowed in each package for produce not satisfying the requirements of the class indicated.

(i) Class I

10 % by weight of spinach not satisfying the requirements for the class but meeting the requirements for Class II or, exceptionally, coming within the tolerances for that class.

(ii) Class II

10 % by weight of spinach not satisfying the requirements for the class nor the minimum requirements, excluding spinach in leaf or in heads affected by rotting or any other deterioration rendering it unfit for consumption. In addition, in the case of spinach heads, a tolerance of 10 % by weight of heads, having roots attached which do not exceed 1 cm in length from the base of the outer leaves, shall be allowed.

V. PROVISIONS CONCERNING PRESENTATION

A. Uniformity

The contents of each package must be uniform and comprise only spinach of the same origin, variety and quality.

Leaf spinach and spinach heads must not be mixed in the same package.

The visible part of the contents of each package must be representative of the entire contents.

B. Packaging

The spinach must be packed in such a way as to ensure that it is suitably protected.

The materials used inside the package must be new, clean and of a quality such as to avoid causing any external or internal damage to the produce. The use of materials and particularly of paper or stamps bearing trade specifications is allowed provided that the printing or labelling has been done with a non-toxic ink or glue.

The packages must be free of all foreign matter.

VI. PROVISIONS CONCERNING MARKING

Each package must bear the following particulars in letters grouped on the same side, legibly and indelibly marked and visible from the outside:

A. Identification

Packer | Name and address of officially issued or accepted code mark |

and/or |

Dispatcher |

B. Nature of produce

"Leaf spinach" or "spinach heads", if the contents are not visible from the outside.

C. Origin, of produce

Country of origin and, optionally, district where grown or national, regional or local place name.

D. Commercial specifications

Class.

E. Official control mark (optional)

--------------------------------------------------

ANNEX V

QUALITY STANDARD FOR PLUMS

I. DEFINITION OF PRODUCE

This standard applies to plums grown from varieties (cultivars) of Prunus domestica L., Prunus insititia L. and Prunus salicina Lindley (Prunus triflora Roxburgh), to be supplied fresh to the consumer, plums for industrial processing being excluded.

II. PROVISIONS CONCERNING QUALITY

The purpose of the standard is to define the quality requirements for plums after preparation and packaging.

A. Minimum requirements

In all classes, subject to the special provisions for each class and the tolerances allowed, the plums must be:

- intact,

- sound, produce affected by rotting or deterioration such as to make it unfit for consumption is excluded,

- practically free from damage caused by pests or diseases,

- clean and practically free of any visible foreign matter,

- free of abnormal external moisture,

- free of any foreign smell and/or taste.

The plums must have been carefully picked.

They must be sufficiently developed and display satisfactory ripeness. The development and condition of the plums must be such as to enable them:

- to withstand transport and handling, and

- to arrive in satisfactory condition at the place of destination.

B. Classification

Plums are classified in three classes as defined below:

(i) "Extra" class

The plums in this class must be of superior quality. In shape, developement and colouring they must be typical of the variety. They must be:

- free from defects,

- practically covered by bloom, according to variety,

- of firm flesh.

(ii) Class I

The plums in this class must be of good quality. They must have the characteristics typical of the variety. However, they may have the following defects, provided that these do not affect the general appearance of the produce, the quality and the keeping quality and presentation in the package:

- a slight defect in shape,

- a slight defect in development,

- a slight defect in colouring,

- skin defects of elongated shape that must not exceed in length one-third of the maximum diameter of the fruit. In particular, healed cracks may be allowed for "Golden gage" [1] varieties;

- other skin defects, of which the total area affected must not exceed one-sixteenth of the whole surface.

The stem may be damaged or missing, provided that there is no risk of the fruit rotting in consequence.

(iii) Class II

This class includes plums which do not qualify for inclusion in the higher classes but satisfy the minimum requirements specified above.

Defects in shape, development and colouring are allowed provided that the plums retain their characteristics.

Skin defects not liable to impair the external appearance of the fruit or its keeping qualities are allowed provided that they do not exceed one-quarter of the whole surface.

III. PROVISIONS CONCERNING SIZE

Sizing is determined by the maximum diameter of the equatorial section.

Minimum sizes are fixed as follows:

| Classes"Extra" and I | Class II |

Large-fruited varieties [2]: | 35 mm | 30 mm |

Other varieties: | 28 mm | 25 mm |

Mirabelles, damsons and plums of Dro: | 20 mm | 17 mm |

For the "Extra" class, the difference in diameter between fruit in any one package is fixed at 10 mm.

IV. PROVISIONS CONCERNING TOLERANCES

Tolerances in respect of quality and size are allowed in each package for products not satisfying the requirements for the class indicated.

A. Quality tolerances

(i) "Extra" Class

5 % by number or weight of plums not satisfying the requirements for the class, but meeting the requirements for Class I or, exceptionally, coming within the tolerances for that class.

(ii) Class I

10 % by number or weight of plums not satisfying the requirements for the class, but meeting the requirements for Class II or, exceptionally, coming within the tolerances for the class. Of these 10 %, not more than 2 % may consist of split and/or worm-eaten fruit.

(iii) Class II

10 % by number or weight of plums not satisfying the requirements for the class nor the minimum requirements, with the exception of fruit visibly affected by rotting, pronounced bruising or any other deterioration rendering it unfit for consumption. Of these 10 %, not more than 4 % may consist of split and/or worm-eaten fruit.

B. Size tolerances

For all classes: 10 % by number or weight of plums deviating from the minimum size or the size stated on the package, the deviation not exceeding 3 mm.

V. PROVISIONS CONCERNING PRESENTATION

A. Uniformity

The contents of each package must be uniform and contain only plums of the same origin, variety, quality and size (in so far as sizing is compulsory), and for the "Extra" class, the contents must also be uniform in colour.

The visible part of the contents of each package must be representative of the entire contents.

B. Presentation

The plums may be presented in one of the following ways:

1. in small packages,

2. arranged in one or more layers separated from each other,

3. in bulk in the package, except for the "Extra" class.

C. Packaging

The plums must be packed in such a way as to ensure that they are suitably protected.

The materials used inside the package must be new, clean and of a quality such as to avoid causing any external or internal damage to the produce. The use of materials and particularly of paper or stamps bearing trade specifications is allowed provided that the printing or labelling has been done with a non-toxic ink or glue.

Packages must be free from all foreign matter.

VI. PROVISIONS CONCERNING MARKING

Each package must bear the following particulars in letters grouped on the same side, legibly and indelibly marked and visible from the outside:

A. Identification

Packer | Name and address of officially issued or accepted code mark. |

and/or |

dispatcher |

B. Nature of produce

- "Plums" if the contents of the package are not visible from the outside,

- name of the variety.

C. Origin of produce

Country of origin and, optionally, district where grown, or national, regional or local place name.

D. Commercial specifications

- Class,

- Size (in so far as sizing is compulsory) expressed in minimum and maximum diameter.

E. Official control mark (optional)

LIST OF LARGE-FRUITED VARIETIES

Andys Pride

Ariel

Aple

Beauty

Belle de Louvain (Bella di Lovanio)

Bernardina

Bleu de Belgique

Blue Free

Burmosa

California Blue (Blu)

Calita

Coe's Golden Drop

De Fraile (Fraila)

Denniston Superb

Early Orléans (Monsieur Hâtif)

Edwards (Colbus)

Eldorado

Emma Leppermann

Empress

Ersinger Frühzwetsche

Formosa

Friar

Frontier

Gaviota

Giant (Burbank giant prune)

Goccia d'Oro

Golden Japan

Grand Prix (Grand Prize)

Grand Rosa

Hackman

Hall

Harris Monarch

Harry Pickstone

Heron

Imperial Epineuse

Jefferson (Jefferson's Gage)

Jori's Plum

June Blood

Kelsey

Kirke's Plum (Kirke)

Laroda

Late Santa Rosa

Magna Glauca

Manns Number One

Marjorie's Seedling

Mariposa

Merton Gage (Merton)

Merton Gem

Monarch

Morettini 355 (Cœur de Lion)

Nubiana

Nueva Extremadura

Oneida

Ontario

Ozark Premier

Pond's Seedling

President

Prince Engelbert

Prince of Wales (Prince de Galles)

Prof. Collumbien

Prune Martin

Queen Rosa

Quenn's Crown (Cox's Emperor)

Quetsche blanche de Létricourt

Red Beaut

Redgold

Redroy

Regina Claudia Mostruosa

Regina d'Italia

Reine Claude d'Althan (Falso)

Reine Claude d'Oullins (Oullin's Gage)

Rosar Premier

Royale de Montauban

Royale de Tours

Ruth Gerstetter

Sangue di Drago

Santa Rosa

Satsuma improved

Seneca

Simka

Songold

Starking Delicious

Sultan

Swan Gage

Tragedy

Utility (Laxton's utility)

Valor

Victoria

Vision

Washington

Wickson

Yakima

Zimmers Frühzwetsche

[1] Definition:Gages (green apricots, dauphines, greengages) having a green skin with a yellowish sheen.

--------------------------------------------------

[keg]

The danger with economists and economics in general is that is not really a science, it is more philosophical than anything else and pretty much entirely theoretical.

 

Put 100 economists in a room and ask them to recommend a common approach and you will get 100 variations and all of them as equally wrong as they are right.

 

Although this sounds terribly arrogant, and it is, don't place too much faith in the strongly held opinion of a single academic, especially an economist.

 

There are favoured schools of thought and two of the strongest are Hayekian which basically suggests you should let the market find its own level with no interference, i.e. no protectionism or Keynesian which is much more in favour of government stimulus, i.e. protectionism. Hayekian is favoured by the right and Keynesian by the left.

 

The EU, Labour led UK & Democrat led US has typically followed the Keynesian approach and the Conservative led UK and Republican led US governments favour the Hayekian approach, albeit watered down.

 

The big problem is both schools of thoughts have to work within the same global environment, so if the world commerce market largely follows Hayek then the views of the professor in the video are fine and dandy, but if the world commerce market largely favours Keynes then the professor's strategy is very much out of step.

 

Just now the predominant global view is very much one of protectionism and it will be for quite some time as there is still way too much fragility and imbalance in the system.

 

Massively simplified of course and absolutely fails to take into account the many other economic theories so apologies to any economists I am offending

But bang on as always. Sadly many academics have never worked in the wider world, went from school to university then maybe a post grad qualification then offered a chair somewhere.

 

This also applies to many of our politicians of all colours. Desoite being a Tory, i respect Dan Jarvis in Liverpool, he really has been out there.

[UKPoacher]

1) The French are still giving hand outs to it's car makers and Germany is doing the same thing (Citroen and Opel).

2) The Germans are subsidising the cost of power for their steel industry,

 

So why can't we? Oh we follow the rules that's right. Seems nobody else is...

I'm sure that the UK will be protecting some of its interest.

 

When you look back to the Common Agricultural Policy it was all about protectionism. Ensuring that farmers got paid handsomely for everything they produced whether there was a need for it or not.

 

grrclark; I understand the principles. In the wider picture, if the UK left the EU the professor was arguing that Germany and France would be more concerned with agreeing trade links with the UK to protect the sales of their vehicles to the UK market, than the UK would be regards the reverse given the balance of trade for the UK is a deficit. They are more likely to give the UK a better deal to protect their own industries than they were prepared to give to Norway who is a net producer.

[FalconFN]

Hawkfanz, firstly well-done for putting in the hours to find that rather obscure bit of literature, but it should be noted that it was written 6 years before the EU was formed. The cabbage email is also much older - about 50 years old actually, and has been recylced countless times (largely in the US) and was originally nothing to do with the EU at all http://www.snopes.com/language/document/cabbage.asp

 

The EU has many problems but the number of words lawyers and burocrats use to define legislation is not one of them, after all the definition of such matters is precise for good reason, it is more important to me whether or not it is in our interest to be involved in writing it or adhereing to it.

[Vince Green]

I'm sure that the UK will be protecting some of its interest.

 

Ensuring that farmers got paid handsomely for everything they produced whether there was a need for it or not.

 

.

There lies the original flaw in the EU's make up. French (and other ) farmers were living off the Agricultural subsidies rather than the crops they were "allegedly" growing. Thats never going to work. .

[Dr D]

Hawkfanz, firstly well-done for putting in the hours to find that rather obscure bit of literature, but it should be noted that it was written 6 years before the EU was formed. The cabbage email is also much older - about 50 years old actually, and has been recylced countless times (largely in the US) and was originally nothing to do with the EU at all http://www.snopes.com/language/document/cabbage.asp

The EU has many problems but the number of words lawyers and burocrats use to define legislation is not one of them, after all the definition of such matters is precise for good reason, it is more important to me whether or not it is in our interest to be involved in writing it or adhereing to it.

In fairness, the regs apply to 5 vegetables\fruit. 5000 words per food type doesn't seem too excessive. Such precise legislative drafting would definitely sway me to an IN vote. 😁 Edited March 2, 2016 by Dr D

[secretagentmole]

In fairness, the regs apply to 5 vegetables\fruit. 5000 words per food type doesn't seem too excessive. Such precise legislative drafting would definitely sway me to an IN vote.

 

Realisation that fruit and vegetables do not grow according to regulations and certainly have never read them you may understand the exasperation of the farmer.

 

Personally I like my fruit and if it is a little small I put it down to possible adverse conditions during growing rather than go whining it is smaller than the mandated minimum size!

Edited March 2, 2016 by secretagentmole

[Dr D]

Realisation that fruit and vegetables do not grow according to regulations and certainly have never read them you may understand the exasperation of the farmer.

 

Personally I like my fruit and if it is a little small I put it down to possible adverse conditions during growing rather than go whining it is smaller than the mandated minimum size!

Absolutely not. I want all my produce in uniform sizes. The rest should be ploughed in. Your being ripped off with smaller than average plums! That's why we need EU regs.

[felly100]

I read the spinach regs and it all seemed reasonable.

If we leave the EU will we be inundated with slug ridden rubbish?

[Dr D]

I read the spinach regs and it all seemed reasonable.

If we leave the EU will we be inundated with slug ridden rubbish?

Give me a good slug over escargot any day. Continental muck. Edited March 2, 2016 by Dr D

[UKPoacher]

There lies the original flaw in the EU's make up. French (and other ) farmers were living off the Agricultural subsidies rather than the crops they were "allegedly" growing. Thats never going to work. .

Exactly. And a clear example of what protectionism can entail if allowed to go to the extreme.

[FalconFN]

Absolutely not. I want all my produce in uniform sizes. The rest should be ploughed in. Your being ripped off with smaller than average plums! That's why we need EU regs.

My god! If we leave will we all have small plums? Eye watering stuff indeed.

[UKPoacher]

Absolutely not. I want all my produce in uniform sizes. The rest should be ploughed in. Your being ripped off with smaller than average plums! That's why we need EU regs.

Especially if you pay for them in kilos and not pounds.

[rodp]

Absolutely not. I want all my produce in uniform sizes. The rest should be ploughed in. Your being ripped off with smaller than average plums! That's why we need EU regs.

Oh, so you're partial to large plums then Doc ?

 

 

 

 

:lol:

[Dr D]

Look. The rules are simple. They need to be juicy and there needs to be enough to give you a good mouthful. Now I understand why former members of the Bullingdon club are leading the IN campaign.

[markfromholland]

Bumped into a Dutch neighbour. She was also talking about the referendum and was jealous that her country hadn't been given the opportunity to vote on leaving the EU. She is sick of what it is doing to her country.

 

I am dutch too, and we were not asked, no referendum, we just had to deal with it.

At that time we also heard all the experts claiming that joining would be the best for us

in holland.........

 

we have had nothing but trouble, possibility to work where where you want in the eu, hahaha.

 

at that time we saw an television commercial where a dutch nurse asked in the camera:

" so i can work where ever i want in europe with my education?" and the voice from our

government replied: yes ! you can !

 

end of the story is that we 1000's of people working in health were laid of as the hospitals

hired cheap personel from countries of eastern europe.

[Dr D]

You know what. It just struck me. This is a pigeon shooting site and no one has asked the question what leaving the EU would mean for crop production, particularly osr? Before osr subsidies winter pigeons here were emense. Would there be less osr if we left? I definitely vote to leave