EU In or out

[UKPoacher]

This agreement with Turkey could just swing it towards a UK exit. It is one thing to have an agreement to take people back to where they don't want to go. But doing it is a different matter altogether. It is going to get very messy IMO and reflect badly on the EU. Even if Greece is unable to fulfil its desired role the Turks have their agreement. Not good news for the Remain camp.

[rjimmer]

I just can't imagine any British women voting for a situation where more men of a certain faith are allowed to flood into Britain.

[Rewulf]

This agreement with Turkey could just swing it towards a UK exit. It is one thing to have an agreement to take people back to where they don't want to go. But doing it is a different matter altogether. It is going to get very messy IMO and reflect badly on the EU. Even if Greece is unable to fulfil its desired role the Turks have their agreement. Not good news for the Remain camp.

 

That,and this latest debacle with the disabled benefits is not going to win Cam much popularity.

 

Also am I reading this 'one for one ' refugee thing correctly ?

All the Syrian or otherwise refugee/migrants that land via rubber dinghy on Greek shores will be sent back to Turkey.

Then for every one sent back,one will be selected from Turkey to come to Europe?

This being contrary to EU and international law/policy/human rights ect.

 

The issues I see are these.

How does that help to stem the tide of migrants coming to the EU ?

Even if this barmy plan is implemented pretty quick (by EU standards) it isnt going to stop this summers annual migration of between 1-2 million 'refugees'

 

Why are we letting Turkey blackmail us?

We know they want EU membership,so they too can hit the gravy train.

But lets face it,they should be disallowed entry on humanitarian grounds for starters,never mind dodgy dealings with terrorists ect.

 

What is to stop the people washing up on the shores of Greek islands from claiming asylum in Greece?

After all if they are that desperate to get away from Turkey,Greece being an EU state is the next best thing,once citizenship is acheived,one could freely travel and work in the EU.

 

Once again the EU leadership has proved toothless ,incompetent and incapable of finding a solution to a problem.

Its own laws forbid it from sending refugees back without due process,a process that (EU style ) usually takes years,in which time again,its own laws prevent sending back of unsuccessful asylum applicants due to 'right to family life ' or other human rights laws.

Bring Turkey in to the equation with its 75 mil population and you have another conduit to more migration,terrorism and yet another money pit.

 

A ridiculous situation ,that hopefully will bring round a few fence sitters and hopefully,change the minds of a few of the more sensible members of the remain camp.

[rodp]

 

That,and this latest debacle with the disabled benefits is not going to win Cam much popularity.

 

Also am I reading this 'one for one ' refugee thing correctly ?

All the Syrian or otherwise refugee/migrants that land via rubber dinghy on Greek shores will be sent back to Turkey.

Then for every one sent back,one will be selected from Turkey to come to Europe?

This being contrary to EU and international law/policy/human rights ect.

 

The issues I see are these.

How does that help to stem the tide of migrants coming to the EU ?

Even if this barmy plan is implemented pretty quick (by EU standards) it isnt going to stop this summers annual migration of between 1-2 million 'refugees'

 

Why are we letting Turkey blackmail us?

We know they want EU membership,so they too can hit the gravy train.

But lets face it,they should be disallowed entry on humanitarian grounds for starters,never mind dodgy dealings with terrorists ect.

 

What is to stop the people washing up on the shores of Greek islands from claiming asylum in Greece?

After all if they are that desperate to get away from Turkey,Greece being an EU state is the next best thing,once citizenship is acheived,one could freely travel and work in the EU.

 

Once again the EU leadership has proved toothless ,incompetent and incapable of finding a solution to a problem.

Its own laws forbid it from sending refugees back without due process,a process that (EU style ) usually takes years,in which time again,its own laws prevent sending back of unsuccessful asylum applicants due to 'right to family life ' or other human rights laws.

Bring Turkey in to the equation with its 75 mil population and you have another conduit to more migration,terrorism and yet another money pit.

 

A ridiculous situation ,that hopefully will bring round a few fence sitters and hopefully,change the minds of a few of the more sensible members of the remain camp.

Of which 95% are Muslim ? They're really going to want to stop their brethren coming here

[Rewulf]

Of which 95% are Muslim ? They're really going to want to stop their brethren coming here

 

I know Turkey is 'technically ' a Muslim country,but that isnt really the issue as far as Im concerned.

I like Turkey,as far as going on holiday there,I like the Turks that Ive met there ,they take their religion about as seriously as we take ours.

Generally speaking,I see them as a friendly people.

I wouldnt mind them joining the EU if I didnt think there would be Polish style rush to come and grab jobs and public services.

 

What I dont like ,is their government facilitating the mass exodus of migrants from staging posts on their coast to the EU,then saying we can help stop this if you give us money,and a ticket to your EU feeding trough that we dont really qualify for.

Like I say,if any fence sitters need any more evidence of how broken the EU project has become look at it this way.

 

If we dont let Turkey join the EU,and pretty sharpish!

They keep letting the migrants through,until we are flooded with refugees and humanitarian disasters ,with fingers pointing directly at us to blame.

More bodies washed up on beaches,more humanity trekking through summer heat,to be met with riot police at closed borders.

If we do let them join,the 3-4 million refugees that are already in Turkey will suddenly become Turkish citizens with a ticket to ride.

Simple, blackmail.

[rodp]

 

I know Turkey is 'technically ' a Muslim country,but that isnt really the issue as far as Im concerned.

I like Turkey,as far as going on holiday there,I like the Turks that Ive met there ,they take their religion about as seriously as we take ours.

Generally speaking,I see them as a friendly people.

I wouldnt mind them joining the EU if I didnt think there would be Polish style rush to come and grab jobs and public services.

 

What I dont like ,is their government facilitating the mass exodus of migrants from staging posts on their coast to the EU,then saying we can help stop this if you give us money,and a ticket to your EU feeding trough that we dont really qualify for.

Like I say,if any fence sitters need any more evidence of how broken the EU project has become look at it this way.

 

If we dont let Turkey join the EU,and pretty sharpish!

They keep letting the migrants through,until we are flooded with refugees and humanitarian disasters ,with fingers pointing directly at us to blame.

More bodies washed up on beaches,more humanity trekking through summer heat,to be met with riot police at closed borders.

If we do let them join,the 3-4 million refugees that are already in Turkey will suddenly become Turkish citizens with a ticket to ride.

Simple, blackmail.

You have to stop feeling guilty about this, it's nothing to do with us. You're not standing behind them with a sharp stick prodding them forward, it's just the way they are. They breed on land that can't support them, they try to raise large families knowing they can't feed them, they have no health care to speak of so die of disease ................... and still they produce large families.

So, they drown, or they starve, or they die of disease, or drought, or they blow themselves to bits. You can't help them. It's making the situation worse by sending aid or taking them in, there'll just be more and more of them that eventually have to suffer.

 

Sad, but true.

[rjimmer]

I have a friend who married a traveler girl and spent about 60 years on 4 wheels behind a horse. He explained that a large part of traveler thinking comes from the East, in that they think if someone is daft enough to give you something, then take it.

[Rewulf]

You have to stop feeling guilty about this, .

 

You misunderstand,I dont feel guilty at all,their choice.

What Im trying to say is that these are the images that will be rammed down our throats in the coming months by media and politcos.

We will be told we dont have a choice, but to either let them in,or give in to Turkish demands.

 

I am not anti immigration,I am anti uncontrolled immigration.

You cannot put right an over salted meal by adding more salt.

[The Croc]

Positive thinking (as apposed to Camorons doom and gloom) about a Brexit, apologies for the origins of the link

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12197894/Brexit-to-trigger-revolution-in-better-laws-officials-expect.html

 

A bit at the bottom about Farming and Fishing

 

Hopefully it will be good, and they don't make a dogs breakfast of it

 

 

 

 

[keg]

Positive thinking (as apposed to Camorons doom and gloom) about a Brexit, apologies for the origins of the link

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12197894/Brexit-to-trigger-revolution-in-better-laws-officials-expect.html

 

A bit at the bottom about Farming and Fishing

 

Hopefully it will be good, and they don't make a dogs breakfast of it

 

 

 

 

Why apologise for The Telegraph?, one of the last good Broadsheets around.

[das]

Well I've read a lot, looked a lot, listened a lot about our situation with the EU over the last 6 or so weeks about Brexit: I was convinced before

that we should get the **** out, now I am definitely convinced that it will be goodbye to our UK lifestyle if we don't.

OUT PLEASE

[The Croc]

Never like just using a papers story, they all have their bias,

[rodp]

 

You misunderstand,I dont feel guilty at all,their choice.

What Im trying to say is that these are the images that will be rammed down our throats in the coming months by media and politcos.

We will be told we dont have a choice, but to either let them in,or give in to Turkish demands.

 

I am not anti immigration,I am anti uncontrolled immigration.

You cannot put right an over salted meal by adding more salt.

:good:

[The Croc]

Well, well, this is interesting, same guy as the link in my other post, now it seems he doesn't like /trust the eu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-wgVzc7qw

[TDS]

Some good news if you are for OUT http://www.cityam.com/237301/the-cbi-has-admitted-defeat-and-the-economic-case-against-brexit-is-collapsing?ref=yfp

Edited March 25, 2016 by TDS

[Good shot?]

I sincerely hope that all the info promoting BREXIT is seen by the wider UK population as I fear the doom mongers for staying in will win by default. ie better the devil you know.

I fear most people will not search out this information.

[Vince Green]

Do you realise?, It was on this day in 1957 that five countries signed the Treaty of Rome to create the Common Market. I wonder if they ever could have foreseen what it would turn into

 

 

 

 

I sincerely hope that all the info promoting BREXIT is seen by the wider UK population as I fear the doom mongers for staying in will win by default. ie better the devil you know.

I fear most people will not search out this information.

I do believe you are right

Edited March 25, 2016 by Vince Green

[Savhmr]

The BBC have been openly criticised for their deliberate bias against Euro-sceptics by the very organisation set up to monitor them under the terms of the BBC Licence.

 

A few links:

 

http://news-watch.co.uk/bbc-challengers-debate-seriously-biased-against-eu-withdrawal-case/

 

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2012/11/12/that-bbc-statement-in-full/

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12168329/The-BBC-thinks-all-Eurosceptics-are-frothing-extremists.-How-can-we-trust-it-to-be-neutral.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11941330/BBC-accused-of-dishonesty-and-bias-over-EU-referendum-coverage.html

 

 

None of this comes as any surprise, but the thing that really grates is that for a lot of people who are only just now waking up to smell the coffee, their indecision will be fuelled by pro-EU programming by the likes of the BBC, and that could be enough come polling day, to swing the vote the way that Cameron would love. The government's grip over Google searches on the matter are already a matter on public record (the fact that they seem to have stepped in to control some Google searches on the government and the EU), so we are being manipulated by both central government sources and Aunty Beeb at every opportunity. It is not conspiracy, it is fact. In the case of the Beeb, it runs deeper than management failing to get to grips with pro Euro journos and presenters, they are complicit themselves as a lot of the programming is carefully produced, edited and presented against Brexit. The government are guilty of extreme scaremongering on both security and economics whilst failing to address continuing immigration issues which are now a matter for genuine concern and critical attention.

 

The CBI themselves have given in and admitted that future growth is likely to be higher medium term following Brexit...something those who have truly thought through the issues have already concluded for themselves. In terms of security, we remain staunch members of NATO. The UN has done little to ensure stability (that has been NATO's job) and it is the deliberate actions of the EC commission and EU parliament that have in fact destabilised Eastern and North Eastern Europe by failing to engage fully and with wisdom with Russia, instead antagonising Putin and his ego by admitting countries with borders close to Russia to the EU who fail to meet any of the qualifying criteria, in order to try and show Russia that it is being "outgrown" by an ever more potent Europe. Look how that ended up for Crimea and the Ukraine which was Putin's answer to Europe. Who can really blame him? He doesn't see Europe as potent and could march in whenever he liked, if it weren't for NATO (not that he would though as he has no reason to).

 

There is also evidence that the NHS and the UK's Welfare System will be significantly better off if we leave, but crippled if we stay. Some are afraid to say it but a lot of this bears directly on predictions for current and future immigration growth figures and the growth of the UK population...that isn't rocket science. Immigration is not bad or undesirable at all, far from it. Uncontrolled immigration is though a recipe for disaster.

 

We also have the added disadvantage in parliament of the SNP whose sole MO is to secure another referendum and break up the Union so that they can carry on with their fanciful dream of remaining fully fledged members of the EU if the rest of the UK decides to leave. They will become ever more vocal siding with the Government on one hand and threatening to leave the UK on the other if the government fail to stop a brexit, but truth is, they do not have that constitutional power to enact such a move and it will be interesting to see how Scotland votes as a whole on the matter.

 

Interesting times ahead but there is a silver lining for those looking seriously at Brexit which simply does not exist for those wishing to remain part of the failed EU experiment.

 

Each to their own and I, for one, fully respect the rights of those who will remain in the "In" camp come what may, but the more I read and learn, the more it fuels my desire to leave the clutches of the EU and everything that means for daily life in Britain, now and in the future. We have lost many of our traditions and any sense of national identity which is a cause for sadness. The race card being played by some pro Euro pushers is fast becoming an old chestnut best ignored. There is no evidence that a Brexit has anything to do with racism or extremism. They need to take a cold hard look in the mirror before making silly comments like that. I'm glad that in some areas of the media at least, a balance seems to have been restored and actually, some sensible debates and thinking/evidence seems to be coming out in favour of a Brexit, and it seems, by some unlikely sources, which is very reassuring.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Savhmr

[Rewulf]

Excellent post

The SNP as far as I can see simply vote against anything that the cons try to do.

Its petty ,immature and un democratic, a bit like the BBC really.

[Badger0802]

out out out

[Danger-Mouse]

Some interesting reading here regarding Switzerland and it`s decision not to join the EU. http://worldinnovationfoundation.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/brexit-switzerland-voting-not-to-join.html

 

I`ll quote the very last part of the page

 

"HM Government & the EU Most Probably Covering-Up and Muzzling the Mainstream UK and EU News Media for their 'own' Political Reasons
The few articles above are the 'only' ones from mainstream media that appeared in UK and EU media and because Switzerland's 'out' vote is important to inform people, this can be seen as a 'cover-up' by mainstream media outlets to not inform the British people. Therefore the people of United Kingdom are not being told even highly material factors and where they should clearly understand this before they take the word of the government who are working on a strategy of fear that is not really there and a media cover up when it suits them. Indeed it clearly shows also that the BBC is being controlled by 10 Downing Street, for did you know that Switzerland had decided not to join the EU? Ask yourself that question and where the only answer is that you have to come to the conclusion that there is definitely a cover-up strategy against the people being orchestrated by the UK government."

 

I must admit I had no knowledge that the Swiss had held a vote on joining the EU. Anyone else?

[UKPoacher]

The cornerstone of EU-Swiss relations is the Free Trade Agreement of 1972.

 

As a consequence of the rejection of the EEA membership in 1992, Switzerland and the EU agreed on a package of seven sectoral agreements signed in 1999 (known in Switzerland as "Bilaterals I"). These include: free movement of persons, technical trade barriers, public procurement, agriculture and air and land transport. In addition, a scientific research agreement fully associated Switzerland into the EU's framework research programmes.

 

A further set of sectoral agreements was signed in 2004 (known as "Bilaterals II"), covering, inter alia, Switzerland's participation in Schengen and Dublin, and agreements on taxation of savings, processed agricultural products, statistics, combating fraud, participation in the EU Media Programme, the Environment Agency, and Swiss financial contributions to economic and social cohesion in the new EU Member States.

 

In 2010 an agreement was signed on Swiss participation in EU education, professional training and youth programmes.

In overall, around 100 bilateral agreements currently exist between the EU and Switzerland.

 

The on-going implementation of these agreements obliges Switzerland to take over relevant Community legislation in the covered sectors.

These bilateral agreements between the EU and Switzerland are currently managed through a structure of more than 15 joint committees.

 

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/switzerland/

 

The main and obvious difference between Switzerland and the UK is that the Swiss are surrounded by the EU land borders.

Edited March 25, 2016 by UKPoacher

[TDS]

All news and media detrimental to the IN campaign i suspect is being suppressed by Osborne,s dirty tricks dept.

We are already getting glossy IN leaflets delivered by Royal Mail as junk mail , nothing from OUT as yet

I voted NO in the 1975 referendum...no internet then but in the shops , pubs and factories nearly all were saying NO but it was passed , i think , by 60+% YES votes

A lot thought it was rigged and fixed back then..i worked with a lot of old boys who were in the forces during the war and did not want anything more to do with Germany and France

[Danger-Mouse]

Nice quote here

 

""If we were outside the EU altogether, we'd still be trading with all these European countries, of course we would. There's a lot of scaremongering on all side of this debate. Of course the trading would go on."

 

Anyone care to guess who said that?

 

It was . . . drum roll please . . .

 

 

 

 

David Cameron speaking on the Andrew Marr Show in January 2013.

[Danger-Mouse]

Excellent interview with IDS on Brexit.

 

Filmed before his resignation and before Dave made his deal.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOLjsfElH-Y