Danger-Mouse Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Last week we had a couple of guys turn up at the ground. They came fairly late, after the big rush of morning shooters had passed. They took a while to finish their round and we thought perhaps that they were overshooting a bit. Well today they came back to shoot again and as things were pretty quiet one of the lads was sent down to have a nosey at what they were doing. He watched them for one stand. Their total number of shots for the stand should have been 20. The actual number they took was 36. So when they were on their way out they were collared by the shoot manager. He is, what you might call, a blunt speaker. He informed them he knew what they`d done, that there was no point denying it and that there was no point in threatening to not return to the shoot. When they asked what was going to happen they were told in no uncertain terms that they`d have to cough up some more cash. In all credit to them they didn`t make a fuss and paid out some extra money. It remains to be seen whether they will return next week. If they do they will be greeted with open arms, no grudge will be held. Although they might feel eyes upon their backs as they shoot. No one at the ground objects to people sneaking an extra shot or two here and there. But they were just taking the mickey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) It's sad when people want to be exploitative at the expense of others. Hopefully they take it on the chin and accept that they got caught out and continue to honestly support the shoot. If it is a worthwhile learning experience then it is worth the red face and few extra clays. Edited March 13, 2016 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckandswing Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) I support my local ground by shooting honestly and even buying all my carts from there. The reason being that there are limited places I could actually shoot my shotguns. Imagine one day turning up and it being closed because they couldn't make a small profit. We need to support our grounds and our shooting community. And pay our corner. Edited March 13, 2016 by Duckandswing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 I don't understand here -- seriously I'm a newb, and the ground I've been have something to count clay for you, so wether you shoot 6, or 60 doesn't really matter as long nobody else is waiting for you... Do you mean your ground count/charges as 'stand' ? BTW I'm serious, this is not sarcastic in any way, just being curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 I don't understand here -- seriously I'm a newb, and the ground I've been have something to count clay for you, so wether you shoot 6, or 60 doesn't really matter as long nobody else is waiting for you... Do you mean your ground count/charges as 'stand' ? BTW I'm serious, this is not sarcastic in any way, just being curious Don`t worry, didn`t think you were being sarcastic. We don`t have trappers or any automated counting devices, it`s an honesty system, you pay for 50 birds and we hope/expect shooters to be honest. As I said we don`t have any real objections to someone adding a few cheeky extra shots. If you pull a pair and only 1 bird comes then we don`t mind if the pair is taken again. Or if a bird causes you trouble and you want another shot or two at it to figure it out then fine. But if you`re going to pay for 50 then shoot 80 or 90 then that`s just taking the mickey. It`s not as if the ground charges a huge amount. It`s only £12 for 50 birds. I can only think of 1 local ground that`s cheaper and they run a non profit shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) My local shoot (within 1/2 mile) now has ni on 300 competitors every second week. Consider that 1/2 of those have more than one round. Consider that 1/2 also take the mickey and have a few extras...that's a lot of unpaid clays and more to the point a lengthy wait to shoot each stand. That's why we (I) now go to a practice ground (10 miles), on a week day, with auto traps and controls, no waiting about, no chatering and laughing behind by 20 or 30 waiting shooters, you pay for what you shoot. If a clay comes out broken or does not appear at all you keep a rough count then tell the guy at the till. Ohhh and I can pick the better weather days. I pay £35 per 100. Edited March 14, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I personally think that if your shooting in the British Open then I would expect very few no birds. But come on don't be harsh on your clay grounds, they are after all trying to make a profit, otherwise they wouldn't be there. A few no birds is just that, it's not the end of the world now is it. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 BTW, I pay £28/100 at Griffin Lloyd -- and it's all automatic, with fancy timers etc (so you can go shoot on your own). Ok, it's in Wales... Are the counter thingies that expensive? That doesn't look like rocket science really, it might pay for itself quite quickly considering the number of people you say 'take the mickey'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I personally think that if your shooting in the British Open then I would expect very few no birds. But come on don't be harsh on your clay grounds, they are after all trying to make a profit, otherwise they wouldn't be there. A few no birds is just that, it's not the end of the world now is it. ;-) Wrong thread Dougy Are the counter thingies that expensive? That doesn't look like rocket science really, it might pay for itself quite quickly considering the number of people you say 'take the mickey'... I`ve no idea how much they cost. It`s something we`ve already considered adding but it`s not a priority atm. There are other things that are needed more and most of our shooters are fairly honest. I only posted this thread because the 2 guys went way over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Ooops ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Working within the shooting industry if I told you counter systems were about £500 per stand for sporting, or per layout for DTL/ABT/Skeet would it make you wonder how many clays were going walkies to recoup that within 6-12 months?? The problem with most shooters who steal clays is that they think "it's only 5p a clay" forgetting that the ground charges 20-30p a clay so they can have a decent car park, clubhouse, new traps, etc, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Roo Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 That's the benefit of a claymate system (or similar) used by some grounds I shoot at (Griffin lloyd as mentioned by Buze). Everytime you call for a bird it adds 1 to the tally, you pay at the end (minus any no birds which I always note down + location). On other shoots I have been to it's a pay before scenario and then off you go. This has the benefit of allowing you to 'look' at a pair for 'nothing' before shooting but can be open to abuse as well. If the community of shooters look after the ground and do not take the P**S then surely we all win in the end? Maybe the shooters in the OP are new to things, or just chancing. Perhaps after the quite word they will return with a more understanding approach :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 It is probably not the only ground they take more clays,may be you have saved several shoots by opening up on them,they will always now think somebody is watching or counting,so may well come back, and just be more honest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted March 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 That's the benefit of a claymate system (or similar) used by some grounds I shoot at (Griffin lloyd as mentioned by Buze). Everytime you call for a bird it adds 1 to the tally, you pay at the end (minus any no birds which I always note down + location). On other shoots I have been to it's a pay before scenario and then off you go. This has the benefit of allowing you to 'look' at a pair for 'nothing' before shooting but can be open to abuse as well. If the community of shooters look after the ground and do not take the P**S then surely we all win in the end? Maybe the shooters in the OP are new to things, or just chancing. Perhaps after the quite word they will return with a more understanding approach :-) It is probably not the only ground they take more clays,may be you have saved several shoots by opening up on them,they will always now think somebody is watching or counting,so may well come back, and just be more honest... I hope they do come back. As far as the ground is concerned the matter is over and done with, no grudges held. If they`ve learnt a lesson that transfers to other grounds then even better. However if they return and are caught doing the same thing again then I have no doubt they will be banned from any further shooting at the ground. If that happens it will be their loss. I`m obviously slightly biased but I think we put on a good shoot. We always try to vary the targets and to put on a nice mix of shots and difficulty levels. In the near future we`ll be adding a couple of new traps that will allow us to present some targets we can`t set atm. Money is being ploughed into the ground to improve everyone`s experience which is why it`s annoying when people take advantage of the honesty system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Strange you should mention this but had just this situation this Sunday. At our ground it is £5.50 for members to shoot 34 birds on sporting,one of the cheapest in the area. Had a 'group' come in 7 people ,3 guns, 3 paid to shoot sporting. I clocked them all shooting at some point,but didnt want to accuse them of anything as they may not have done a full course each. But when they decided to have a go on down the line and skeet,words were had. The explanation was that they thought £5.50 was an ' shoot as much as you like' experience ! Its not like they havent been before,or the rules are not clear on the notice board. Taking the proverbial methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Were they members, if so they should be noted and watched in future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 They are taking the p*** just keep an eye on them next time they turn up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 A couple of them are members,and Im pretty certain they come on here too. We shall see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 This is not something that is new, it was happening over 20 years ago, when I first became involved with running a shooting ground. The previous guy used to just allow people to tell him how many clays used and how many boxes of cartridges they had taken ! Needless to say there were a few complaints when I got a portacabin, produced scorecards and kept cartidges behind the desk. The money was collected before you shot and your name added to the scorecard, plus however many boxes of cartridges you required. The 'box' counter or the pre paid credit card system is used in this area and is a great success a 10% 'no birds' is also applied, which seems more than fair. Prices between £22 and £26/100 are average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Clay grounds are struggling to make a profit to many grounds are going under for numerous reasons they don't need this sort of thing the ground in question is improving at a rate the lads are doing a good job the owner is putting a lot of money into it new traps etc it would be a shame to see the ground in financial trouble it may not sound like a lot let's just say 10 people over shoot it adds to quiet a sum over time the odd shot yes but not 17 over in just one stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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