Banning Grouse Shooting in Scotland

[keg]

Not sure if this has been posted before.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14386246.display/#comments

 

 

[CaptainBeaky]

Interesting that the one ostensibly polite pro-ban response purported to quote references in favour of the ban: they were all from the blogs of the people starting the petition it published by LACS - talk about a circular argument!

[rjimmer]

I've signed a counter petition calling for grouse shooting to continue, but I can't remember where is was to found.

[panoma1]

It is no surprise, it's merely a resurrected story and another cowardly backdoor attack on shootIng, fronted by the usual anti shooting suspects!

[clakk]

Beyond biased wasnt it Chris Pakham says,Bill Oddie says ,blah blah blah.Fancy all the birds of prey being killed by grouse moor owners NOT.Didnt mention all the birds of prey poisoned by the Raptor feeding scheme using dead sheep full of chemicals which they tried to pin on gamekeepers till it was proved the meat was contaminated sheep that shouldve been destroyed and suddenly that storey was quietly dropped.How many jobs would go west and what state would these moorland habitats be in if they stopped being managed as a Grouse shoot.They refuse to admit the good Gamekeepers do for wildlife on a managed area of moorland but why let the truth get in the way of a LACS campaign

[oldypigeonpopper]

Beyond biased wasnt it Chris Pakham says,Bill Oddie says ,blah blah blah.Fancy all the birds of prey being killed by grouse moor owners NOT.Didnt mention all the birds of prey poisoned by the Raptor feeding scheme using dead sheep full of chemicals which they tried to pin on gamekeepers till it was proved the meat was contaminated sheep that shouldve been destroyed and suddenly that storey was quietly dropped.How many jobs would go west and what state would these moorland habitats be in if they stopped being managed as a Grouse shoot.They refuse to admit the good Gamekeepers do for wildlife on a managed area of moorland but why let the truth get in the way of a LACS campaign

hello, WELL SAID

[Vince Green]

Banning Grouse shooting makes perfect sense to both the Scottish economy and environment, but only to a complete moron.

[lockstockandbarrel]

Banning Grouse shooting makes perfect sense to both the Scottish economy and environment, but only to a complete moron.

 

Sounds like something the Scottish Government will go for then.

[Scully]

Just found the petition on Twitter tonight also; started by Mark Avery with support form Chris Packham and others, amongst whom are Brian May, LACS and Nicola Sturgeon no less.

There are pictures of dead Scottish wildcats, claimed to have been illegally killed, inferring by grouse moor 'keepers I'm assuming.

The petition has attracted a little under 13,000 votes in favour of a ban and runs until September.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Scully

[andrewluke]

Beyond biased wasnt it Chris Pakham says,Bill Oddie says ,blah blah blah.Fancy all the birds of prey being killed by grouse moor owners NOT.Didnt mention all the birds of prey poisoned by the Raptor feeding scheme using dead sheep full of chemicals which they tried to pin on gamekeepers till it was proved the meat was contaminated sheep that shouldve been destroyed and suddenly that storey was quietly dropped.How many jobs would go west and what state would these moorland habitats be in if they stopped being managed as a Grouse shoot.They refuse to admit the good Gamekeepers do for wildlife on a managed area of moorland but why let the truth get in the way of a LACS campaign

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/inverness/242151/rspb-rubbishes-accidental-poison-claims/

 

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2014/06/04/ross-shire-massacre-rspb-denies-accidental-poisoning-claims/

Edited March 30, 2016 by andrewluke

[Scully]

Beyond biased wasnt it Chris Pakham says,Bill Oddie says ,blah blah blah.Fancy all the birds of prey being killed by grouse moor owners NOT.Didnt mention all the birds of prey poisoned by the Raptor feeding scheme using dead sheep full of chemicals which they tried to pin on gamekeepers till it was proved the meat was contaminated sheep that shouldve been destroyed and suddenly that storey was quietly dropped.How many jobs would go west and what state would these moorland habitats be in if they stopped being managed as a Grouse shoot.They refuse to admit the good Gamekeepers do for wildlife on a managed area of moorland but why let the truth get in the way of a LACS campaign

 

If this is true then surely it's worth mentioning to the relevant people/organisations?

[clakk]

See Andrew,s links ,its also been covered on S.D last year they were screaming blue murder at the time till it came out it was donated dead sheep full of various vets potions that are terminal to birds of prey.No apologies nada,when people tried to make issue with this fact and get an apology /retraction suddenly nobody knew anything

[sako751sg]

 

If this is true then surely it's worth mentioning to the relevant people/organisations?

Its true alright.

 

The story ran for ages and then when all was revealed sudden silence strangely enough.

[Scully]

And they were allowed to get away with it without making an apology?

[sako751sg]

And they were allowed to get away with it without making an apology?

 

Cant find any of the links but im pretty sure it was away up this way and they were harping on for months about the amount of deaths and it must be poison by keepers and the usual keech.

Next thing it was discovered it was poisoning due to what they were getting fed alright,but from their own sourced scoff.

And then absolutely nothing,although some papers did post it was an OG but never saw any response.

Says it all with the kind of people we are dealing with though.

[andrewluke]

 

Cant find any of the links but im pretty sure it was away up this way and they were harping on for months about the amount of deaths and it must be poison by keepers and the usual keech.

Next thing it was discovered it was poisoning due to what they were getting fed alright,but from their own sourced scoff.

And then absolutely nothing,although some papers did post it was an OG but never saw any response.

Says it all with the kind of people we are dealing with though.

 

look at post #10 for links

[panoma1]

How many times can the anti's keep starting a "ban driven grouse shooting" petition, and how many times can the government respond until they say enough is enough?

This is the third petition the anti's have started in the last couple of years, they have twice collected a few thousand signatures, and twice had a response from the government, now they are being allowed to have another shot at it.

When will their spiteful little petition be seen as what it is......irrelevant and vexatious!

Edited March 31, 2016 by panoma1

[Milo]

Why do the antis want to have it banned? Is it in pursuit of a highly doubtful argument that it would be good the moorland environment and wildlife? Or is it an attack on what they perceive to be the privileged class, as was clearly the case with fox hunting?

[scotslad]

Did they ever actually disclose which chemical killed the BoP's? Or any real ideas on wot has happened and can be proved

 

The 2 articles linked are just the usual suspects denying it but no real evidence 1 way or other.

 

I said right from the start it was always a favourite, sheep at that time of year are dosed up to their eyeballs with flukeicide trying to keep the fluke at bay which is a harder and harder job every year with this continous wet weather we get now.

 

Until they reveal wot chemical actually killed the birds we'll never know.

But the police should not be covering up any findings, if it was a keeper using the usual suspects they're never long in kicking his door down and naming the chemicals.

Why the silence in this case?

 

It is perfectly pluasable for these top end predators to accumulate lethal doses in there systems and even more so when almost totally relying on these feed stations.

Back throu the 1950-70's proper wild BoP managed to accumulate high levels of DDT and that was just from eating natural food it caught, so if the birds diet is almost solely comsisting of left carrion not fit for human consumption likely with high levels of drugs in them it really is not that big a leap of faith.

 

Is that not 1 of the main arguments for going lead free in hunting bullets? Tiny lead fragments in gralloch could build up in BoP's over time yet feeding them a diet purely consisting off drugged up sheep definately won't build up in them???

 

 

The PF and police seriously need to answer some questions over that case. Lead far to easily by some of these org's

If the police/labs just released wot chemicals it was it woulld very soon put all this speculation to bed.

But if it really was the big bad keepers why are the usual suspects so quiet now?? Surely still an outrage if a keeper has done this

 

Was also speaking to someone recently, a keeper got done for killing a BoP, they never found the bird, any blood feathers or any evidence at all (alleged to have been shot with a rifle, which u would of thought would leave atleast 1 feather and blood at the scene, which was forensically searched) basically was convicted purely on wot 2 eyewitnesses seen. Not 1 shred of evidenceCan't believe it ever got to court never mind being found guilty

Thats like me and a mate accusing u of murder and u being found guilty despite beng no body, no forensics and no evidence

[scotslad]

Back on topic

 

The most ironic thing is grouse shooting is pretty easy to defend, ur managing a totally wild bird and only shoot the surplus stock, so u never shoot ur last birds and can't rear/release them like there August 11/12th stories will tell u.

It would be the worst grouse moor ever if it actually shot all its birds.

 

The other benefits from good grouse management are absolutely startling, the benefits to otherground nesting birds,waders, even Pheasant and Grey Partridge all thriving on moorland edge and down into low ground.

Grouse shooting morally is the easiest form of any shooting to defend and most environmentally friendly too.

 

Wheres the real conservationists like David Bellamy, kept in the quiet as he knows how good shooting is for areas

[Scully]

 

Cant find any of the links but im pretty sure it was away up this way and they were harping on for months about the amount of deaths and it must be poison by keepers and the usual keech.

Next thing it was discovered it was poisoning due to what they were getting fed alright,but from their own sourced scoff.

And then absolutely nothing,although some papers did post it was an OG but never saw any response.

Says it all with the kind of people we are dealing with though.

 

Can I assume none of our shooting organisations took up the challenge of a public apology, especially those organisations with an interest in gamekeeping?

[Scully]

Back on topic

 

The most ironic thing is grouse shooting is pretty easy to defend, ur managing a totally wild bird and only shoot the surplus stock, so u never shoot ur last birds and can't rear/release them like there August 11/12th stories will tell u.

It would be the worst grouse moor ever if it actually shot all its birds.

 

The other benefits from good grouse management are absolutely startling, the benefits to otherground nesting birds,waders, even Pheasant and Grey Partridge all thriving on moorland edge and down into low ground.

Grouse shooting morally is the easiest form of any shooting to defend and most environmentally friendly too.

 

Wheres the real conservationists like David Bellamy, kept in the quiet as he knows how good shooting is for areas

 

I agree with every reason you've given in support of grouse shooting, plus there is the amount of money it generates and the employment it offers to the locality, but when all is said and done there's no getting away from the fact it is wealthy people killing for entertainment. They and what they do is resented by the clamouring masses.

[scotslad]

While wot u say is right surely its more morally defendable than actually rearing and releasing birds to shoot, esp in the numbers some shoots release and shoot.

Simple fact it costs a lot of man hours to produce a shootable surplus of grouse year on year, so will always be expensive. The vast majority of scotish moors will lose money every year, prob only a handful get anywhere near breaking even most years.

Slightly different in N eng thou where u have more consistantly high grouse numbers and most moors tend to be joined to each other so less vermin

 

 

The problem about BASC scotland/SGA really holding them to account is unless police actually release the chemical u can't really oint the finger with any proof, unlike 'them' we don't just point finger and prouce sensentinalist ?sp stories

 

Really stuck in no mans land until police release the chemicals involved

[Scully]

While wot u say is right surely its more morally defendable than actually rearing and releasing birds to shoot, esp in the numbers some shoots release and shoot.

Simple fact it costs a lot of man hours to produce a shootable surplus of grouse year on year, so will always be expensive. The vast majority of scotish moors will lose money every year, prob only a handful get anywhere near breaking even most years.

Slightly different in N eng thou where u have more consistantly high grouse numbers and most moors tend to be joined to each other so less vermin

 

 

The problem about BASC scotland/SGA really holding them to account is unless police actually release the chemical u can't really oint the finger with any proof, unlike 'them' we don't just point finger and prouce sensentinalist ?sp stories

 

Really stuck in no mans land until police release the chemicals involved

 

I'm not really sure when it comes to killing for entertainment that one type of shooting can be 'more' morally acceptable than another, as the ultimate aim and end result is the same; to create an environment/habitat attractive to game and to control vermin to increase games chances of survival, and thereby ensure there are sufficient numbers to shoot.

Perhaps shooting organisations could find out the chemical responsible with a FOI request?

[panoma1]

Has it been proven that these raptors were poisoned at feeding stations by protectionists unknowingly feeding them contaminated meat? Or is this the same type of speculation the protectionists used when blaming keepers for these raptor deaths?

 

If the answers to the above questions are yes then shooting from the lip will do more harm than good!