Camerons dad and his off shore tax haven

[grrclark]

Valid points. My issue is the majority who PAYE have no choice but to pay their full whack whilst Politicians (Law makers) deliberately leave loop holes to be abused by themselves and their rich buddies then declare it's all perfectly legal if rumbled. A total and utter **** take and an insult to those who pay their fair share.

That isn't really true though.

 

The 'loopholes' that they take advantage of you can too.

 

If you are self employed it is perhaps slightly easier as you can setup beneficial employment schemes for yourself and you can likely be more flexible in pension arrangements, but you can still choose to do a lot of things and gain tax relief if you choose as a PAYE tax payer.

 

The biggest single option is your pension, you can make additional payments from your gross salary that are spared from tax, you can invest in isa's, you could choose to invest in the legitimate schemes for funding arts programs, etc to reduce your liability.

 

You can salary sacrifice to directly fund a pension pot or other schemes which could take you below the 40% threshold and everything you earn above that feeds your pension, you can benenfit even more from that when you are 55+ as the contribution limits increase.

 

The problem is really that you don't have enough disposable income to make it worth your while, but that is a different argument to the one that you choose to make.

 

There are plenty folk who earn £50k who will take advantage because their circumstance allows them to do so.

 

Sure it is easier if you have lots of disposable income to make beneficial arrangements in your tax affairs, but that isn't a result of sinister political decision making designed to keep the masses at heel, it is simply as a result of having more pennies.

 

The offshore fund scandals is really a nonsense for individuals, it is much more pertinent for corporations who can and do exploit complex fiscal rules.

 

Likewise it is far more pertinent for money laundering and funnelimg illegaly gained funds so it cannot be easily tracked.

 

For individulas like Dave or you or me it genuinely is no more scandalous than having a pension with the Pru.

 

It was a genuinely significant problem for stamp duty avoidance until 3 years ago when this government closed that loop hole.

[toontastic]

JRDS I have one question for you. When you leave your money to your kids are you going to leave it in a way that gives them as much as possible or in a way that gives the taxman as big a slice as possible.

[JRDS]

I pay what I can into my pension scheme but those payments are capped and I can't pay any extra in, Osborne had plans to scrap tax relief on that at the last budget until he was forced to back down, no doubt he will be back. ISA's are again of benefit to the better off with disposable income which a lot of people don't have. I seem to remember all the footballers a while ago investing if greenfield shopping centres to avoid tax, forestry again is similar both out of reach to joe public just benefitting the super rich.

[JRDS]

JRDS I have one question for you. When you leave your money to your kids are you going to leave it in a way that gives them as much as possible or in a way that gives the taxman as big a slice as possible.

Sorry irrelevant to paying tax on earnings which is the topic of discussion! I take it you support tax avoidance for the rich for those who PAYE to back fill? I wish I would be leaving an amount over the threshold to worry about tax, I certainly won't be.

Edited April 14, 2016 by JRDS

[toontastic]

Sorry irrelevant to paying tax on earnings which is the topic of discussion! I take it you support tax avoidance for the rich for those who PAYE to back fill?

Totally relevant, just answer the question would you use legal tax avoidance rules to give your kids as big a cut as possible or would you leave the tax man as much as he could take.

[keg]

Totally relevant, just answer the question would you use legal tax avoidance rules to give your kids as big a cut as possible or would you leave the tax man as much as he could take.

I know what my answer would be

[oowee]

I thought the pension cap is £40k a year? There are tax breaks for the less well off too with the personal allowances. Its all a matter of scale.

[grrclark]

I pay what I can into my pension scheme but those payments are capped and I can't pay any extra in, Osborne had plans to scrap tax relief on that at the last budget until he was forced to back down, no doubt he will be back. ISA's are again of benefit to the better off with disposable income which a lot of people don't have. I seem to remember all the footballers a while ago investing if greenfield shopping centres to avoid tax, forestry again is similar both out of reach to joe public just benefitting the super rich.

You can pay up to £40k per year as a tax free pension contribution or £1m in your lifetime.

 

You're right that GO was considering taxing pension contributions, but then the pension payable would not be subject to tax, just now it is the opposite way round and it doesn't really work.

 

I think you are arguing a different point and i touched on it in my last post.

 

Your complaint is really about you not having enough disposable income to be able to take meaningful benefit from any tax management schemes that are available to all of us.

 

That i'm afraid is entirely down to you; sadly we don't all have the talent to be mega rich sports stars or musicians, we don't all have the same level of accumen to make a fortune in business and we all don't have the same personal network that gives the opportunity to get involved with others who make lots of money.

 

There are those for whatever reason whether it be hard work and endeavour, exceptional talent or fortunate birthright have enough money to buy 10 Porsches or 4 houses or invest in all sorts of schemes, but that is the inherent unequal nature of life.

 

Life, or to be more accurate, nature isn't fair whether it be talent, looks, sporting prowess, money, health, etc etc

 

Make the very most of what you have to benefit you and yours. There are hundreds of thousands of people in this country who earn more than you and are contributing a whole load more to the tax coffers than you are, but there are tens of millions who earn lots less and pay less, but content yourself in the knowledge that your tax payment which is greater than theirs is your contribution to equalitarianism

[grrclark]

 

Very good indeed.

 

I'd really welcome your opinion on CGT for small limited companies.

In respect to CGT payments on dividends?

[AVB]

http://www.accounting-degree.org/accounting-tricks/

 

A few here for you, you believe all the MP's tax returns Cameron's and Osborne's weren't actual tax returns just pieces of paper with numbers nor do tax returns show any dubious money hidden from the tax man, that whole exercise was a ******** PR stunt. Why weren't the actual tax returns shown?? Cameron is still to explain the 75k of shares he sold just before becoming PM. The very fact he won't speaks volumes.

 

grrclark has explained the reality far more eloquently than me. Some of the examples in the link you provided are valid, some have been closed, but there is no evidence that any MP has used any of them.

 

And as for Cameron's sale of 5,000 units of Blairmore Investment Trust worth £30K (not 75K you refer to) he said he sold them so that he "wouldn't be accused of having any agenda or vested interests". So he has explained.

[SNS]

http://www.accounting-degree.org/accounting-tricks/

 

A few here for you, you believe all the MP's tax returns Cameron's and Osborne's weren't actual tax returns just pieces of paper with numbers nor do tax returns show any dubious money hidden from the tax man, that whole exercise was a ******** PR stunt. Why weren't the actual tax returns shown?? Cameron is still to explain the 75k of shares he sold just before becoming PM. The very fact he won't speaks volumes.

 

What on earth did you google to uncover that rubbish ?

 

Some of it is bordering on delusional. "Borrow money against your property and don't pay tax on it because, technically, it's not income" I mean come on, it isn't income. Which is why you don't pay income tax on it.

 

I've been meaning to ask too, can you substantiate your constantly repeated point that politicians deliberately leave loopholes in the law ? As someone that used to close such loopholes, and was never once stopped by a politician, I'd love to see where you have got your evidence from ?

[JRDS]

Totally relevant, just answer the question would you use legal tax avoidance rules to give your kids as big a cut as possible or would you leave the tax man as much as he could take.

If you take the time to read the whole thread you will find the answer, my view is 'any taxation is legalised robbery'. Cameron took the moral high ground on taxation and got found out. My last post on this thread, I am amazed at peoples attitude to the hypocracy of Politicians and the support for the lying cheating scum.

Edited April 14, 2016 by JRDS

[955i]

Me again. All of the MP's who have shown their tax return reveal that they are paying the right amount of tax and are Only taking advantage of the same tax 'loopholes' that you and I could take advantage of. CGT exemption, IHT 'gifts' etc. What loopholes are you referring to?

I think the general grievance is that yes, we could all take advantage of them, but we don't have the privileged background and overpaid lawyers they can afford, so they can 'avoid' or 'evade' depending on your view, while the rest of us just take it up the *** and have no say

[toontastic]

If you take the time to read the whole thread you will find the answer, my view is 'any taxation is legalised robbery'. Cameron took the moral high ground on taxation and got found out. My last post on this thread, I am amazed at peoples attitude to the hypocracy of Politicians and the support for the lying cheating scum.

So would you use legal tax avoidance to give your kids as better inheritance

[SNS]

I think the general grievance is that yes, we could all take advantage of them, but we don't have the privileged background and overpaid lawyers they can afford, so they can 'avoid' or 'evade' depending on your view, while the rest of us just take it up the *** and have no say

How do you know the lawyers are overpaid ?

[Yellow Bear]

How do you know the lawyers are overpaid ?

Simples -Anyone getting paid more than posters complaining of overpaid others (regardless of what they do or what their qualifications) is in their view overpaid. envy writ large.

[AVB]

I think the general grievance is that yes, we could all take advantage of them, but we don't have the privileged background and overpaid lawyers they can afford, so they can 'avoid' or 'evade' depending on your view, while the rest of us just take it up the *** and have no say

You don't need a lawyer, overpaid or not, nor a privileged backround to use you annual capital gains tax allowance. You just fill the numbers in on your tax return. Likewise a gift to avoid inheritance tax (assuming you live another 7 years). It's not rocket science.

[Jaymo]

Mr Clark- excellent postings as usual.

 

'Overpaid lawyers' are not a requirement to take advantage of 'Tax Planning'

 

Some people must have a subscription to Socialist monthly, which is fine, but personally I prefer basket weaving monthly

 

And finally--- Robin Hood really was just a fictional character so JRDS legalised robbery it is to be alas....

[achosenman]

We had a reunion of people in our school year from 50 years before and most of the people who had done the best in life were people from the group you refer to abov

 

What's your measure of success? Are you seriously suggesting that little or no education leads to better opportunities in life?

 

I too went to school and the overwhelming majority of the group I mention are all in cash paid jobs (not PAYE) and routinely fiddle the tax and claim government handouts for kids houses etc. So if by "success" you mean criminal tax evasion then yes, some trades offer ample opportunity for that.

 

I've worked or supported myself since I left full time education. I've never claimed any benefits at any time.

 

 

Atb

[rjimmer]

 

What's your measure of success? Are you seriously suggesting that little or no education leads to better opportunities in life?

 

One chap from our year had become a director or a large UK bank, one was head of security for someone who was among the 10 richest people on earth, one was a senior explosives adviser to the military of a very wealthy, oil-rich country, several had sold their businesses and were comfortably well off. Kids at school are often disruptive because they are bright and bored.

[12gauge82]

http://mirrorspectrum.com/info/cameron-must-resign-he-put-2-million-in-an-offshore-account-not-the-30000#

[grrclark]

http://mirrorspectrum.com/info/cameron-must-resign-he-put-2-million-in-an-offshore-account-not-the-30000#

Really?

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

One chap from our year had become a director or a large UK bank, one was head of security for someone who was among the 10 richest people on earth, one was a senior explosives adviser to the military of a very wealthy, oil-rich country, several had sold their businesses and were comfortably well off. Kids at school are often disruptive because they are bright and bored.

 

We can all think of exceptions to the norm (my grannie smoked 100 fags a day and still lived until she was 105 years old), but on average those who study hard and gain decent qualifications usually get the better jobs.

 

And then we can get started on 'It's not what you know but who you know'. Hence the attraction of going to Eton and Oxbridge etc.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Dead-Eyed Duck

[rjimmer]

 

We can all think of exceptions to the norm (my grannie smoked 100 fags a day and still lived until she was 105 years old), but on average those who study hard and gain decent qualifications usually get the better jobs.

 

And then we can get started on 'It's not what you know but who you know'. Hence the attraction of going to Eton and Oxbridge etc.

The post I responded to was about disruptive wide-boys, nothing to do with educational performance. We were all in the top stream of a secondary modern because there was no room at the grammar school due to the bulge in births after WW2. 2 years before, all but one(12 out of 13) in my primary school had got a grammar school place.

[achosenman]

Your bad then I'm afraid. I was talking about the myriad of low achievers and proffesional victims that pervade modern society. The particular pupils at my school I mention barely had an IQ in the double digits.

 

Atb